LED lights and rewiring? Various threads have different answers

[04TJFan]

Sorry if this is yet another duplicate thread. However, I don't see a clear answer here.
If I am looking to replace all of the lights with LED except for the side marker lights on the front tire flares, do I need to rewire anything?

I have the bushwacker flat flares that have a tiny light strip on it. Although I can't seem to find the model number for the light, it does seem to say it is LED.
So maybe the install at the time had to already rewire to get LED as an option?
Flare

Some posts say if you do change the front turn signal lights, that rewiring is needed - saying there isn't a way to pass the current from the front to the side without wiring modifications.
Others seem to say that is only the case if you change the side marker lights (which were already done in my situation).

Hoping that the flares I do have already had to adjust the wiring so I can update to all LEDs without any extra work (no knowledge of electrical work - so diagrams are useless to me).

Thanks

 

[TJ Jim]

Post a pic of your setup for a bit more clarification. If you are putting LEDs in the front chances are you WILL have to tweak on the wiring a bit. Add a resistor maybe. Maybe the new fender setup is already wired for the tj wiring? Do you have instructions with your install giving a bit more information?
For instance I put led lights in the back which already had the needed resistance and also a led flasher unit. Plug n play.

Maybe yours is but you gotta give us more to go on.

Welcome to our forum. Someone on here probably has the same setup you’re going for and will have the answers you want to hear.

 

[04TJFan]

Thanks for the quick reply. So basically, all of my lights are stock with the exception of LED headlights and the bushwacker flares (link above).
I read I would need the LM470 relay for any LED upgrade other than the headlights.
But beyond that, I have 0 awareness of everything else. I added the flares years ago. Seems this is the replacement light for the flares Replacement LED
So I wonder when they installed these flares with the built-in LED it meant the installers had to already rewire to allow me to add other LED lights without issues, or if these flare lights didn't need any modifications, but I would need modifications if I do upgrade to LED lights moving forward.

 

[TJ Jim]

Is it the three wire set or two wire set? Three wire will probably work without too much work

 

[TJ Jim]

https://wranglertjforum.com/threads...-3-wire-led-turn-signals-work-properly.69816/

 

[machoheadgames]

The side markers need to be rewired if the front parking lamps are changed to LED. So the ones to avoid putting LED in are the front signals. LEDs can be put into the stock side marker spots if they are a non polar design.

 

[TJ Jim]

The lights he is putting in don’t specify non polar. In fact they don’t even give any specs or instructions for installation

 

[machoheadgames]

The lights he is putting in don’t specify non polar. In fact they don’t even give any specs or instructions for installation

Probably best leaving both locations front and side alone then.

 

[04TJFan]

Sorry, so i meant that the flares are already installed a long time ago and the current LED in the flares work.
They seem to sell replacements with 2-wire or 3-wire. But when looking at the entire flare as a whole, it seems the install video shows 2-wire (so I assume that is what I have when they installed it).
With that said, does it mean that the 2-wire LED (assuming that is what I have going) in the flares are working because the install already did any necessary rewiring for LED? Or is this a scenario where it was plug and play, but if i were to use something like the Morimoto 3157 for my fronts Link that the install would require changing the wiring?
Not looking to do anything to the existing flares, just all other lights.

Thanks again for the help!

 

[TJ Jim]

I’m so confused

 

[04TJFan]

Sorry, to clarify, I am not doing anything with the side marker lights. I am looking to swap for LED everywhere else.
My flares already have side marker LEDs in them. So I wonder if that means that I will have no issues putting LED lights for my turn signal lights in the front and all the other lights in the back.
From reading other posts, it seems to say that the issue is with the side marker lights. But since those are LED now, does that imply that when the flares were installed, someone had to already adjust the electrical wiring to accept LED? And if that is the case, my assumption then would be that I can swap my other lights for LED without issue.
I just don't know if that is the case.

Sorry for the confusion

 

[machoheadgames]

There are a lot of factors here that make this less simple than a cut and dry answer saying yes or no about what will work.

There are a lot of ‘experts’ on the subject of LEDs who say certain things will or won’t work and those experts sadly shouldn’t be speaking on the subject. So it’s difficult to get good information right from the get go.

On a bone stock Jeep, the problem with LEDs is typically going to happen when you put LEDs in the front turn signal/parking lamp housing. The reason being is the side markers depend on these front bulbs for their ground. The problem will still occur at the side marker, but the side marker didn’t cause the problem, the front lamps being converted did.

At the side marker itself, you can switch that bulb to LED without doing anything else by simply using a non-polar bulb design. Non polar meaning the bulb can be inserted into the socket in either orientation and still work properly. The reason you need a non-polar design, is because of the floating ground. The direction of the current switches which means it needs to be able to go either direction. Many LED bulbs do not support this, which means the bulb would only work in half of the scenarios, but not the other. Or if you flipped it around, then it would work in the other scenarios, but not the other scenarios where it worked before. Not a problem on an incandescent bulb where the current easily flows both directions. And like I said, also not a problem with an LED so long as you use a non polar bulb. VLEDS sells good non polar bulbs.

Now, you already have LED side markers installed, so the last paragraph doesn’t even matter to you. I just mentioned it all for the backstory. We can not really answer anything about what will work until you tell us which versionss (2 wire or 3 wire) are installed. If 3 wire are installed, then you’re almost assuredly good to go. If 2 wire were installed, then they could have wired them up to work properly (using diodes and resistors to fix the dependent-upon-front-bulb-for-ground conundrum), or they could be simply wired up to either the parking lamp circuit OR the turn signal circuit, and maybe not both. Many modern cars don’t even have blinking side markers at all, and just have a simple running lamp that is on when parking lights or headlights are on. But many cars do have mirror indicators or whatever else to help increase visibility. So in the case of a Jeep, it’s nice to maintain factory capability of blink AND parking lamp. Legally, you need to have the running lamp, and nobody wants to throw away the blinking functionality if they can keep it (although legally it’s not required).

So the only thing we can do from here is you show us the specifics of your wide marker wiring and we’ll know what will work from there.

My guess is they used 3 wire, or if you do indeed have 2 wire hooked up, they are probably not providing both functions. If they are a 2 wire non polar design, then they could work perfectly fine, and will stop working once you switch the fronts to led. But we don’t have enough info to know that. So provide whether they work on parking AND blink, and look to see if they are 2 or 3 wire.

 

[04TJFan]

There are a lot of factors here that make this less simple than a cut and dry answer saying yes or no about what will work.

There are a lot of ‘experts’ on the subject of LEDs who say certain things will or won’t work and those experts sadly shouldn’t be speaking on the subject. So it’s difficult to get good information right from the get go.

On a bone stock Jeep, the problem with LEDs is typically going to happen when you put LEDs in the front turn signal/parking lamp housing. The reason being is the side markers depend on these front bulbs for their ground. The problem will still occur at the side marker, but the side marker didn’t cause the problem, the front lamps being converted did.

At the side marker itself, you can switch that bulb to LED without doing anything else by simply using a non-polar bulb design. Non polar meaning the bulb can be inserted into the socket in either orientation and still work properly. The reason you need a non-polar design, is because of the floating ground. The direction of the current switches which means it needs to be able to go either direction. Many LED bulbs do not support this, which means the bulb would only work in half of the scenarios, but not the other. Or if you flipped it around, then it would work in the other scenarios, but not the other scenarios where it worked before. Not a problem on an incandescent bulb where the current easily flows both directions. And like I said, also not a problem with an LED so long as you use a non polar bulb. VLEDS sells good non polar bulbs.

Now, you already have LED side markers installed, so the last paragraph doesn’t even matter to you. I just mentioned it all for the backstory. We can not really answer anything about what will work until you tell us which versionss (2 wire or 3 wire) are installed. If 3 wire are installed, then you’re almost assuredly good to go. If 2 wire were installed, then they could have wired them up to work properly (using diodes and resistors to fix the dependent-upon-front-bulb-for-ground conundrum), or they could be simply wired up to either the parking lamp circuit OR the turn signal circuit, and maybe not both. Many modern cars don’t even have blinking side markers at all, and just have a simple running lamp that is on when parking lights or headlights are on. But many cars do have mirror indicators or whatever else to help increase visibility. So in the case of a Jeep, it’s nice to maintain factory capability of blink AND parking lamp. Legally, you need to have the running lamp, and nobody wants to throw away the blinking functionality if they can keep it (although legally it’s not required).

So the only thing we can do from here is you show us the specifics of your wide marker wiring and we’ll know what will work from there.

My guess is they used 3 wire, or if you do indeed have 2 wire hooked up, they are probably not providing both functions. If they are a 2 wire non polar design, then they could work perfectly fine, and will stop working once you switch the fronts to led. But we don’t have enough info to know that. So provide whether they work on parking AND blink, and look to see if they are 2 or 3 wire.

Really appreciate it! This forum is amazing and super helpful. Just tested out the turn lights, and the side marker lights on the bushwacker flat flares do blink when turning. Is there an easy way to view if it is 2 or 3 wire without removing the flare?

 

[MikekiM]

I got confused halfway through this thread.

That said, I have LEDs in all of the running lights. Headlights, BMB tails and the side markers in the Bushwacker flat flares. The only exterior bulbs I have yet to change to LED are the front facing turn signals but I have set of these LEDs for the front turn signals in my parts bin.. yet to be installed.

I installed the Bushwacker flares and have used the Bushwacker side marker replacement kit, linked to above, after one of the marker lights failed. Nothing needed to add the side markers other than clip the stock connector (two wires) and splice in the male/female connectors for the Bushwacker LED and attach the dedicated ground. Yes, you can see the connectors where they come out of the front corner of the flare to connect to the stock side marker harness.

I never replaced or modified the relay, but the PO might have. Everything works as it should.

I believe they work as expected because of the dedicated ground rather than relying on the floating ground to the front markers.

From the Bushwacker install instructions... Clip the factory connector off. Crimp on the bullet connectors (two per side). Attach the dedicated ground to the mounting bolt for the flare. Plug-n-Play there after...

 

[machoheadgames]

Really appreciate it! This forum is amazing and super helpful. Just tested out the turn lights, and the side marker lights on the bushwacker flat flares do blink when turning. Is there an easy way to view if it is 2 or 3 wire without removing the flare?

I am not familiar with the flares but you can’t just look underneath and see how many wires run to the light?

Is the light on constantly with the headlights also? Is the blinker brighter than the running light or is it blinking at the same brightness?

 

[MikekiM]

I am not familiar with the flares but you can’t just look underneath and see how many wires run to the light?

Is the light on constantly with the headlights also? Is the blinker brighter than the running light or is it blinking at the same brightness?

The side marker lights' wiring exit the flare and pass through the front fender to connect with the stock harness. There should be plenty of wire to pull the Bushwacker connectors out of the flare to inspect or change them. The Bushwacker LEDs use three wires. Two go to the stock side marker harness and one is a dedicated ground wire that attaches to the tub.

Yes... dual brightness. They are constant on dual brightness. Blink at a brighte intensity than the running lights. Same as the side markers on the BMB LED tails if you have those.

 

[CreepinDeth]

Nothing needed to he rewired on my 2003

I have
LED front and side signals
LED tail lights
LED headlights
LED gauge lights, and LED interior lights

I installed a resistor to compliment the front and rear markers, and the LED turn signal relay. Theoretically with enough resistance you can eliminate the LED relay, I was just lazy and didnt bother to evaluate it beyond the simple fix.

I have converted numerous vehicles to LED including both of my protouring classics without issue.

 

[Jeme]

So I have LED headlights. Holly retrobrights (Plug and play), the quadratec rear LED kit with LED relay. Could now just use LED bulbs in my front turn signals and markers since I have that relay or are additional modifications needed? Thx so much. Figured I would ask here rather than start a new thread. Thx

 

[Fughuert]

So I have LED headlights. Holly retrobrights (Plug and play), the quadratec rear LED kit with LED relay. Could now just use LED bulbs in my front turn signals and markers since I have that relay or are additional modifications needed? Thx so much. Figured I would ask here rather than start a new thread. Thx

Yea just get any 3 wire leds and ground to the fender for flat fenders. Or 3157 led replacements for stock, just make sure they have distinguishable low-high. The stock side markers give some people issues if led do research on that.

 

[Jeme]

So the 3157’s will work without modifications?