All things welding

[AirborneTexasRanger]

Butt welding thin sheet metal SUCKS!!! You have to go extremely slow or it can get really bad really fast. If it's in the budget, then I'd recommend flanges. Another alternative would be getting a strip of 1/4" aluminum to put behind the joint while you weld to act as a heat sink and support the weld puddle. Side note, that aluminum would pretty much be trash afterwards or only be good for welding purposes.

 

[Granite]

Excellent info, thanks!
There’s a ChrisFix video where he demonstrates going slow and using a copper backing as you mention. But he was also welding an ugly floor that would be covered; not a body panel that would be highly visible.
Flanges and plugs sound useful, despite the potential for moisture-trapping overlap.

 

[hosejockey61]

Is doing body work pretty much spot welding around until the gap is all filled? Then grind it smoothe and add bondo as needed? I have a coworker who wants me to weld in a patch on his early bronco....

 

[AirborneTexasRanger]

Is doing body work pretty much spot welding around until the gap is all filled? Then grind it smoothe and add bondo as needed? I have a coworker who wants me to weld in a patch on his early bronco....

I'm not trying to be a pretentious ass but I think by spot welds you mean tack welds. Spot welding is a whole different process used in bodywork. But yeah, that's essentially what you're doing. It's extremely slow process mostly because you have to move around & not weld in a straight line.

When I did my high line fenders I cut the lower bent portion of the hood and welded it back after I cut about 3" out. I still haven't ground anything flush yet so you can see all the tacks. You can also see where I went to fast and some of the welds poked through to the other side which caused it to warp a little crooked so the hood lines aren't straight. I think I spread it out over an entire weekend and worked on other projects while it cooled down.

 

[hosejockey61]

I'm not trying to be a pretentious ass but I think by spot welds you mean tack welds. Spot welding is a whole different process used in bodywork. But yeah, that's essentially what you're doing. It's extremely slow process mostly because you have to move around & not weld in a straight line.

When I did my high line fenders I cut the lower bent portion of the hood and welded it back after I cut about 3" out. I still haven't ground anything flush yet so you can see all the tacks. You can also see where I went to fast and some of the welds poked through to the other side which caused it to warp a little crooked so the hood lines aren't straight. I think I spread it out over an entire weekend and worked on other projects while it cooled down.

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You won't offend me, but yes that's what I'm thinking.

 

[mrblaine]

Excellent info, thanks!
There’s a ChrisFix video where he demonstrates going slow and using a copper backing as you mention. But he was also welding an ugly floor that would be covered; not a body panel that would be highly visible.
Flanges and plugs sound useful, despite the potential for moisture-trapping overlap.

The flanging tool and get the air powered one, helps a bunch and most of them have a hole punch directly opposite the flanging anvil. The challenge on some of the locations is getting the two pieces in tight contact. You can use a sheet metal screw in a hole to suck them up tight. Bit harder to fill that hole but aluminun or copper as a backer helps a bunch. It was mentioned to get fusion on both. It is almost impossible not to. If you get them in contact and hit any part of the hole, it really has no choice but to fuse the two together. In fact, you would have to work at it to only weld on one side.

Patience helps, don't get in a hurry, don't put the plug holes too far apart, make sure the metal is clean and in contact and before long, you'll get the hang of it. If it doesn't fit, don't force it. Spend the time and make it fit. Sheet metal is very unforgiving in that regard.

 

[freedom_in_4low]

moisture-trapping overlap.

just slather a bunch of seam sealer on there and send it.

 

[AirborneTexasRanger]

I ordered one of those leather welding hoods like the one @NashvilleTJ has.Well technically I ordered the full head cover one but returned it because it doesn't have a way to secure the lens in front of your face. I exchanged it for the one Nashville has in his picture.

First impressions are that it seems worth the $30. Only thing I don't like is that the clear lens is glass. That went straight in the trash & I replaced it with a clear z87 lens then added two more to protect both sides of the shade lens.

 

[NashvilleTJ]

I ordered one of those leather welding hoods like the one @NashvilleTJ has.Well technically I ordered the full head cover one but returned it because it doesn't have a way to secure the lens in front of your face. I exchanged it for the one Nashville has in his picture.

First impressions are that it seems worth the $30. Only thing I don't like is that the clear lens is glass. That went straight in the trash & I replaced it with a clear z87 lens then added two more to protect both sides of the shade lens.

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What, no Minion picture?

 

[Granite]

That would go well with this thing I just ordered … all this leather for just $34!!

 

[Claytone]

@hosejockey61
Butt welding sheet metal isn’t bad, just time consuming.
That early Bronco is probably 18ga like my C10. I did rockers (inner&outer) floor pieces, cab braces, toe kicks, cab corners, etc. Never did that kind of welding before that and it ended up just fine. I started with the floor pieces to get my technique figured out.
I found that good results depended on a combination of things:
*Having the right gap, the thickness of a dremel cut wheel was about perfect.
*Doing 2 and only 2 tacks at a time. Seriously don’t try 3, it won’t work reliably.
*Move around and don’t let it get too hot.
*Be careful at the corners. 1 tack and come back to it later. The corners can have little to no gap.
*After you weld and grind, shine a bright light behind the area and you will find your pin holes. Mark em with a sharpie and hit them again. Repeat as needed.
*Use .023 wire. Don’t even fuck around with the .030.

Enjoy.

 

[hosejockey61]

@hosejockey61
Butt welding sheet metal isn’t bad, just time consuming.
That early Bronco is probably 18ga like my C10. I did rockers (inner&outer) floor pieces, cab braces, toe kicks, cab corners, etc. Never did that kind of welding before that and it ended up just fine. I started with the floor pieces to get my technique figured out.
I found that good results depended on a combination of things:
*Having the right gap, the thickness of a dremel cut wheel was about perfect.
*Doing 2 and only 2 tacks at a time. Seriously don’t try 3, it won’t work reliably.
*Move around and don’t let it get too hot.
*Be careful at the corners. 1 tack and come back to it later. The corners can have little to no gap.
*After you weld and grind, shine a bright light behind the area and you will find your pin holes. Mark em with a sharpie and hit them again. Repeat as needed.
*Use .023 wire. Don’t even fuck around with the .030.

Enjoy.
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You pics show what my mind was thinking, so that's good. Definitely .023 wire too.

 

[Claytone]

The back side should look something like this when the planets are aligned. It’s not perfect, but it’s pretty good.

You’re doing your buddy a hell of a favor. Hiring this work out is very expensive. My body man friend said what I did was $3k minimum as a start point if he was quoting it.

 

[hosejockey61]

The back side should look something like this when the planets are aligned. It’s not perfect, but it’s pretty good.
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You’re doing your buddy a hell of a favor. Hiring this work out is very expensive. My body man friend said what I did was $3k minimum as a start point if he was quoting it.

It's a pretty small patch on a quarter panel, so hopefully not too much work. He's my boss at work so maybe I can bank a favor

 

[AirborneTexasRanger]

Minion selfie for @NashvilleTJ

 

[Mike_H]

Couple of my welds. I feel pretty good about these. I am, however, a rank amateur at this skill and probably even worse at evaluating.

This one was 1/8 “ material. I set it up inside corner to inside corner, so there was a gap to fill.

Backside

looks to me like I might have went a little fast in the beginning, but the heat affected zone on the backside.

This is a piece of 3/16” sheet that I made into angle by cutting most of the way through and folding it over. Welded up the edge. It was about a 20” seam, so lots of starts and stops. Probably too much tip movement, too.

 

[AirborneTexasRanger]

These spots you didn't quite melt the edges of the plate. But that's an easy fix, just zap a little more weld there

The HAZ grows as you weld so it will usually be small in the beginning. You can also tell by how much penetration you got on the inside.

Your weld looks a little cold, most likely moving to fast or manipulating the wire too much. You can tell by the ridges of the weld face. Did you whip & pause? Try dragging it but focus on the puddle edges & let them fill up as you move. That will set your pace.

I think your gun angle is right where it needs to be. Minimal spatter & soot, good job

 

[Mike_H]

These spots you didn't quite melt the edges of the plate. But that's an easy fix, just zap a little more weld there

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The HAZ grows as you weld so it will usually be small in the beginning. You can also tell by how much penetration you got on the inside.

Your weld looks a little cold, most likely moving to fast or manipulating the wire too much. You can tell by the ridges of the weld face. Did you whip & pause? Try dragging it but focus on the puddle edges & let them fill up as you move. That will set your pace.

I think your gun angle is right where it needs to be. Minimal spatter & soot, good job

Speed control is the biggest thing I struggle with. It interesting that you say it looks cold. I did a wire feed test (based on Jodi’s test from welding tips and hacks) and my wire feed seems slow. It sounds ok, most of the time so I haven’t really dug any further into it. I always get confused on wire feed…would more wire add heat or subtract heat?

 

[AirborneTexasRanger]

Speed control is the biggest thing I struggle with. It interesting that you say it looks cold. I did a wire feed test (based on Jodi’s test from welding tips and hacks) and my wire feed seems slow. It sounds ok, most of the time so I haven’t really dug any further into it. I always get confused on wire feed…would more wire add heat or subtract heat?

Subtract heat - Yes & No. If everything else remains constant then way too much WFS will make the weld cold because it's introducing too much metal into the puddle which cools it off. You can tell this because it will feel like the wires is actually pushing the gun away. Also if the WFS is way too low then there's not enough metal to maintain the puddle because the work piece absorbs all the heat instead of being contained in mostly in the weld puddle. You can tell because the wire will start to melt into big globs at the end before falling into the puddle. Think of it like boiling water in a pot. If you keep adding water then it will have to work harder to maintain the boil but if you don't put enough water in the pot the it can boil all the water away really fast.

Now, if were talking about increased WFS within the workable parameters of your voltage settings then it gets a bit more complicated. Lower WFS (less amps) results in a slightly convex shape with less penetration but higher WFS (more amps) results in a concave shape with more penetration. This is also where you see more affect from arc length, travel speed & gun angle.

 

[AirborneTexasRanger]

I try to avoid the term "Heat" in reference to settings because it can be confusing. A cold weld means your settings in general are too low where a hot weld is the opposite. Also the type of machine (inverter based or transformer based) you have would help me understand better because they operate a bit differently

For the specific welds you posted, the shorter one looks really consistent while with the longer one you were just moving too fast. I wouldn't change the settings just adjust your travel speed. Learning to adjust the way you weld as opposed to the settings will make you a better welder. This will teach you how slight adjustments on your end can affect the weld in different ways, it will teach you to read the puddle & will really benefit you when your welding in awkward positions.