Sab-a-dab-a-doo! The back-country LJ build has officially started

[sab]

I printed the open-bottomed bin shown at the end of the post above, and it came out almost good enough. I had to put some clearance cuts in for some of the internal features in the console, and the mounting tabs didn't mate up with the console bosses (there was a prominent gap on all of them. So, I broke out the modeling clay. As a kid, I couldn't figure out why it was called modeling clay. Then, I saw my first full-size clay model of a car. Way cool, I thought! Over the years, I was privileged to work with some pretty talented modelers, so my use of the medium is laughable in comparison, but it does work well when I need it.

I put a small ball of clay on each mounting surface:

(Note: If you look closely, you'll see I had to sand some of the wall away to fit this test piece in the console - that's the clearance added to the model that I was talking about above.)

I then fit it up and removed it to get an imprint of the gap at the mounting bosses:

After measuring the gap at each location, I modified the model by moving the tabs, and it's printing right now, but I'm late for bed, so I'll check it out in the morning. Stay tuned!

 

[chili_pepper]

I used a photocopier's scaling functions and literally cut and paste templates

I still do a bit of "paper dolls" on occasion.

I broke out the modeling clay.

I put a small ball of clay on each mounting surface:

I used a bit of plumber's putty when working on the TJ cabin air filter assembly to verify clearances between the assembly and the underside of the cowl panel. It fit the criteria in the moment and fell to hand.

Sometimes scales, calipers and micrometers aren't the best tool for the job. I should probably buy some clay for future use, might be cheaper than plumber's putty...

 

[sab]

I used a bit of plumber's putty when working on the TJ cabin air filter assembly to verify clearances between the assembly and the underside of the cowl panel. It fit the criteria in the moment and fell to hand.

Sometimes scales, calipers and micrometers aren't the best tool for the job. I should probably buy some clay for future use, might be cheaper than plumber's putty...

Like plumber's putty, modeling clay has just the right consistency to get accurate measurements with caliper and mic. However, I think it's much easier to remove. In fact, I was able to carefully pull those formed clay pieces off the test piece to measure the thickness without substantial deformation.

I pulled the latest part off the printer before work this morning, but didn't have a chance to see if it's "good-to-go." And I probably won't until the second half of this week. It's my busiest two days of the month right now. Back-to-back 14 hour days in eight board meetings. Come on Wednesday afternoon!

For the final print, I'm thinking white ASA due to the heat inside a vehicle on a summer day in Texas. Since I want it a light color (to see inside better), is there a better choice? I don't think fiber reinforcement is required, but if so, my choices look to be ABS-GF or PA6-GF, both available in white or light gray. Here's a comparison:

There doesn't seem to be much of an advantage with ASA-CF, but the nylon option is significantly better. However, I worry about troublesome printing with it. It's got to be thoroughly dried, it prints at 1/3 the speed, and it may require glue on the build plate, which I haven't had to do, yet. I'm thinking ASA will be good enough. Thoughts?

 

[chili_pepper]

However, I think it's much easier to remove.

Indeed. The plumber's putty likes to stick and is meant to deform so as to seal.

For the final print, I'm thinking white ASA due to the heat inside a vehicle on a summer day in Texas. Since I want it a light color (to see inside better), is there a better choice? I don't think fiber reinforcement is required, but if so, my choices look to be ABS-GF or PA6-GF, both available in white or light gray.

There doesn't seem to be much of an advantage with ASA-CF, but the nylon option is significantly better. However, I worry about troublesome printing with it. It's got to be thoroughly dried, it prints at 1/3 the speed, and it may require glue on the build plate, which I haven't had to do, yet. I'm thinking ASA will be good enough. Thoughts?

the fiber prints tend to be a bit more dimensionally stable, but the fiber does tend to affect certain other qualities in a way that might be undesirable. I doubt you need the fiber for this application, regardless. As for ASA, I'm pretty happy with BL's version so far and, along with ABS, it's my starting point for vehicle interior parts.

Actually printing some risers for my AMS HT units in black ASA as I type this.

 

[sab]

Actually printing some risers for my AMS HT units in black ASA as I type this.

Did you design them or use an off-the-shelf design? The reason I ask is that I wanted to double-stack mine (I have five), and I wanted risers for the lower ones. I didn't find anything I liked, so that was one of my first designs - risers for the bottom and racks for the top. The bottom one fits between the legs of the racks and has a handle in front to easily slide it out to change rolls. I printed them in PETG. I'm happy to share the files with you, if you wish.

 

[Mike_H]

Like plumber's putty, modeling clay has just the right consistency to get accurate measurements with caliper and mic. However, I think it's much easier to remove. In fact, I was able to carefully pull those formed clay pieces off the test piece to measure the thickness without substantial deformation.

I pulled the latest part off the printer before work this morning, but didn't have a chance to see if it's "good-to-go." And I probably won't until the second half of this week. It's my busiest two days of the month right now. Back-to-back 14 hour days in eight board meetings. Come on Wednesday afternoon!

For the final print, I'm thinking white ASA due to the heat inside a vehicle on a summer day in Texas. Since I want it a light color (to see inside better), is there a better choice? I don't think fiber reinforcement is required, but if so, my choices look to be ABS-GF or PA6-GF, both available in white or light gray. Here's a comparison:
View attachment 659665

There doesn't seem to be much of an advantage with ASA-CF, but the nylon option is significantly better. However, I worry about troublesome printing with it. It's got to be thoroughly dried, it prints at 1/3 the speed, and it may require glue on the build plate, which I haven't had to do, yet. I'm thinking ASA will be good enough. Thoughts?

For what you're making, ASA is fine...ABS would probably be OK too. If you DO decide to go the GF route, I've had good luck with the ABS GF from Bambu...however Polymaker's Fiberon PA6-GF is SIGNFICANTLY easier to print than Bambu's is. I couldn't control warp with Bambu Labs Nylon. The Fiberon Material only requires a heat bed temp of 40° C vs 100° C for BL.

Edit: I just remembered you have the H2C with a heated chamber. Working with Nylon would probably be much easier for you. My X1C is only heated bed. I use a folded blanket to help keep heat in with some of the more challenging things...I can maintain 54-57 C that way, but having active heating would be nice. I've looked into a DIY method at bit, but not pulled that trigger yet.

 

[chili_pepper]

Did you design them or use an off-the-shelf design?

I actually downloaded one. I was going to design my own (still might) but it was a late game decision. I spent all weekend in the indoor mancave working on 3D designs and prints, and it occurred to me while running in the new AMS HT's (#2 arrived Saturday) that the surface underneath gets quite hot and could use some airflow. I found two online, went with this one...

https://makerworld.com/en/models/1498686-ams-ht-simple-airflow-riser#profileId-1567554

It works, not bad though could use a tie between the middle legs if you plan on moving it as it tends to spread at the joint (which isn't overly tight in itself).

Polymaker's Fiberon PA6-GF is SIGNFICANTLY easier to print than Bambu's is.

Noted. I have an X1C and some BL nylon, my only concern is the brand. I know Polymaker is supposed to be good but the first/only roll of ABS I used of theirs did not impress in any way.

Someday we'll be in the cool kids club with heated chambers, bigger build volumes and laser beams on our fricken' printers...

I printed them in PETG.

This seems to have become my filament for basic prints now. I can't recall the last time I purchase PLA, though the filament does have its merits.

 

[Mike_H]

I actually downloaded one. I was going to design my own (still might) but it was a late game decision. I spent all weekend in the indoor mancave working on 3D designs and prints, and it occurred to me while running in the new AMS HT's (#2 arrived Saturday) that the surface underneath gets quite hot and could use some airflow. I found two online, went with this one...

https://makerworld.com/en/models/1498686-ams-ht-simple-airflow-riser#profileId-1567554

It works, not bad though could use a tie between the middle legs if you plan on moving it as it tends to spread at the joint (which isn't overly tight in itself).



Noted. I have an X1C and some BL nylon, my only concern is the brand. I know Polymaker is supposed to be good but the first/only roll of ABS I used of theirs did not impress in any way.

Someday we'll be in the cool kids club with heated chambers, bigger build volumes and laser beams on our fricken' printers...



This seems to have become my filament for basic prints now. I can't recall the last time I purchase PLA, though the filament does have its merits.

Yeah, I've been watching market place to see what a used X1C goes for. There still aren't that many out there...so I think I could move it. My wife has come around on the idea of having a printer...she thought I just wanted one cuz they were cool, but she made the comment the other day about how that has probably paid for itself 10 times over in the year I've had it. So...I could probably get over the spousal approval hurdle to upgrade...I just don't know if I have the room in my office for the dumb thing. Its significantly bigger than the X1C.

 

[chili_pepper]

Yeah, I've been watching market place to see what a used X1C goes for. There still aren't that many out there...so I think I could move it.

This is the thing. I figure if I hang onto the X1C for another two years (max), I doubt I'd be able to give it away for parts at that point. It took a bit to move my P1S, and I'm glad I did not wait longer on that one.

 

[sab]

...I just don't know if I have the room in my office for the dumb thing. Its significantly bigger than the X1C.

It is crazy how much space it eats up. I have the two AMS 2 Pros on top, and the five AMS HTs are spread out currently. I meant to re-arrange now that I've designed and printed the risers and stackers, but I was consumed with the center console insert design all weekend. The H2C uses white filament tubing for the left head and gray tubing for the right internally. I bought 15' of each color so that I can also color-code the AMSs for quick reference. I also need to label them. The user interface on the H2C is not very good for knowing which AMS HT is which. I promised Mrs. sab that I'd get it re-arranged for sure next weekend because it's actually in her workspace. She's missing the space for sure...

 

[Mike_H]

It is crazy how much space it eats up. I have the two AMS 2 Pros on top, and the five AMS HTs are spread out currently. I meant to re-arrange now that I've designed and printed the risers and stackers, but I was consumed with the center console insert design all weekend. The H2C uses white filament tubing for the left head and gray tubing for the right internally. I bought 15' of each color so that I can also color-code the AMSs for quick reference. I also need to label them. The user interface on the H2C is not very good for knowing which AMS HT is which. I promised Mrs. sab that I'd get it re-arranged for sure next weekend because it's actually in her workspace. She's missing the space for sure...

WOW! You have 7 AMS's? I have one, and barely use it. I thought it would be great, had grand ideas of multi-material and dissolvable support. I find that the whole switch filament and purge thing isn't worth it, most of the time. That being said, I'm glad I do have it, because there are times that it is indispensable. I just thought I would use it a lot more than I do.

This was an AMS print...

and it turned into this to rebrand my Oldsmobile steering wheel to GMC.

 

[chili_pepper]

WOW! You have 7 AMS's? I have one, and barely use it.

While I admit @sab's AMS collection is quite impressive , I'm a bit surprised you don't use your one so much. I'm kind of with you on the multi-material waste vs. need/use, but where I've found the AMS indispensable is in using every last bit of filament from one roll and loading the next roll of the same material when necessary, mid print. At one point probably half the filament spools I had were partials (less than 20%), and storing them was starting to become a PITA.

I really like the AMS HT, and I'd recommend at least one in the arsenal. I was surprised that I went for a second so quickly but after this weekend I do not regret it.

That's a nice bit of finished work there.

 

[Apparition]

While I admit @sab's AMS collection is quite impressive , I'm a bit surprised you don't use your one so much. I'm kind of with you on the multi-material waste vs. need/use, but where I've found the AMS indispensable is in using every last bit of filament from one roll and loading the next roll of the same material when necessary, mid print. At one point probably half the filament spools I had were partials (less than 20%), and storing them was starting to become a PITA.

I really like the AMS HT, and I'd recommend at least one in the arsenal. I was surprised that I went for a second so quickly but after this weekend I do not regret it.



That's a nice bit of finished work there.

I run the two ams's and two HT's. I couldn't imagine not having them all loaded up and ready to go. My printer ran all weekend and printed a handful of different colors without ever having to touch a spool. I don't think I did any multi color prints either.

I also frequently have the kids or wife clear the printer so I can start another print while at work. It'd be a pain to have to tell them which spool I needed loaded.

 

[sab]

WOW! You have 7 AMS's? I have one, and barely use it. I thought it would be great, had grand ideas of multi-material and dissolvable support. I find that the whole switch filament and purge thing isn't worth it, most of the time. That being said, I'm glad I do have it, because there are times that it is indispensable. I just thought I would use it a lot more than I do.

This was an AMS print...

View attachment 659737

and it turned into this to rebrand my Oldsmobile steering wheel to GMC.

View attachment 659738

I remember that print from the build thread. Very, very cool - not just the print, but the entire process of creating that.

I like the AMSs for many reasons, and I've mentioned before that 3D printing is not a hobby for me. I think of it just like 2D paper printing. I don't want to know how the printer works; I just want to print. I went with the Bambu stuff because they have that reputation, and they're living up to it. The HTs you can dry while printing, which is awesome. They also dry at a higher temp if required, and they also have a port on the back that let's fragile materials, like TPU, feed with low friction. The spare tire snubber was the only one with two functional materials in the finished product, and the dual hot-end printers excel at doing that with little waste (just the purge tower.) I haven't done any multi-color prints, just multi-material. If I ever do prints with more than two materials, that's where the H2C will excel. Much lest waste from what I've seen (but far from waste-free, too).

Another two-material print job I do is whenever I have a lot of support (for the final print only, though). I have rolls of Bambu's support filaments for PTEG, PLA, and ABS, and I use that because that support material is great for quality prints that require support. The support towers simply fall off the parts with a little persuasion (maybe too little.) I've twice had prints ruined by support that lifted, both off the build plate and off the other filament. I'm still figuring that out. The last time it happened was either Friday or Saturday night (can't recall), and it was schmutz stuck to the silicone sock on the hot end nozzle.

Lots to learn!

 

[sab]

One other note about Bambu's dual-nozzle printers (H2D and H2C). They say that brittle materials (mainly engineering filaments) should only be printed using the left nozzle, and soft materials (like TPU) should only be printed using the right nozzle. Fortunately, multi-colored engineering filament prints are not done very often because it would be just like using a single-nozzle printer to do so (only using the left nozzle, which, for the H2C is just like that of the H2D - lots of poop generated).

That's why I have so many AMSs. I need a separate set for the left nozzle and the right nozzle. I plan to have one AMS Pro 2 assigned to the right nozzle with non-support, non-engineering filament in it, one AMS Pro 2 assigned to the left nozzle with support filament in it, four of the AMS HTs assigned to the left nozzle with engineering filament in them, and one AMS HT used for free-wheeling TPU into the right nozzle when needed. I could just use the free-wheel spool on the left side of the unit for TPU, but I wanted to keep all spools enclosed for preventing moisture absorbtion.

 

[Mike_H]

I remember that print from the build thread. Very, very cool - not just the print, but the entire process of creating that.

I like the AMSs for many reasons, and I've mentioned before that 3D printing is not a hobby for me. I think of it just like 2D paper printing. I don't want to know how the printer works; I just want to print. I went with the Bambu stuff because they have that reputation, and they're living up to it. The HTs you can dry while printing, which is awesome. They also dry at a higher temp if required, and they also have a port on the back that let's fragile materials, like TPU, feed with low friction. The spare tire snubber was the only one with two functional materials in the finished product, and the dual hot-end printers excel at doing that with little waste (just the purge tower.) I haven't done any multi-color prints, just multi-material. If I ever do prints with more than two materials, that's where the H2C will excel. Much lest waste from what I've seen (but far from waste-free, too).

Another two-material print job I do is whenever I have a lot of support (for the final print only, though). I have rolls of Bambu's support filaments for PTEG, PLA, and ABS, and I use that because that support material is great for quality prints that require support. The support towers simply fall off the parts with a little persuasion (maybe too little.) I've twice had prints ruined by support that lifted, both off the build plate and off the other filament. I'm still figuring that out. The last time it happened was either Friday or Saturday night (can't recall), and it was schmutz stuck to the silicone sock on the hot end nozzle.

Lots to learn!

Did you get a tube of the bambu liquid glue with your parts kit? That stuff works well for keeping your prints stuck to the build plate. I assume you're using a PEI plate? Textured grabs better than Smooth, but both need some sort of glue when running bigger prints with "easy" to warp (ie high shrink) materials like ABS, ASA, Nylon, etc. Get yourself some elmer's glue sticks too. They work well on the textured plate.

I love the idea of a dual head printer. I would use support material WAY more if I had dual heads. RE the AMS HT. I didn't actually know they had that little guy. I was looking at lunch. Kinda neat...I've been running that way for a while. I have a Creality single spool filament dryer. I use that for my "5th" bay. Its got roller bearings for the spools to rest on and a grommet to accept a teflon feed tube. Its currently set up with TPU for some tires I'm making for a Batmobile Christmas present. I can monitor my moisture level and kick the dryer on when I need. Feeds material really nicely (or it lets the extruder pull material rather). I'll have to look at the AMS HT more closely. The filament integration with the Bambu "ecosystem" is a nice feature.

Dang it...Now I'm really thinking of upgrading...

 

[chili_pepper]

I would use support material WAY more if I had dual heads

I have a couple of rolls for different plastics but have yet to use it, I suspect this is likely why.

tube of the bambu liquid glue

I have their sticks and the liquid, but have yet to use either as well. I've only had a few issues with adhesion and adding brim seemed to solve it. That said, I haven't printed with anything beyond fiber reinforced ABS or ASA to date with the engineering-type filaments.

 

[sab]

I made more progress on the center console insert today. With the fitment to the mounting bosses and top edge already finished, I had to build the bottom of the insert. It has to clear the subwoofer and the step slider controller, so only about half of the space below the opening is available. The subwoofer has a wired remote with it, and it will just fit above the subwoofer, on the mostly unusable side of the insert. I decided to make a pocket in the insert to hold the remote, so I started by determining the outline of the remote. I went back to printing and adjusting:

Laid on top, it looks pretty close:

I then set to work designing the bottom of the insert. After about eight hours of work, here we are:

Right now, I'm printing a test of just the remote pocket for fitment. I'm sure it'll take a few prints to get the fit right, especially since I added three little nubs that will engage the gap in the sides of the remote from where the top and bottom halves come together. Those nubs will hopefully keep the remote from rattling around.

Tonight's our office Christmas party, so I'll check the print when we get home, and tomorrow, I'll continue. Stay tuned...

 

[Mike_H]

Youi're using fusion, right? I'm just starting to play with that one, Been using inventor for a few years, and solidworks before that. Anyway, inventor lets you import a picture to a sketch. I typically trace the picture with a spline line and lock it down. Then I scale it to be the right measurements. As long as you take your picture relatively square to the part in question, it works well.

I haven't gotten into sketches with Fusion deep enough to know, but does it allow a similar workflow?

 

[sab]

Youi're using fusion, right?

Yes I am.

I haven't gotten into sketches with Fusion deep enough to know, but does it allow a similar workflow?

Yes, in Fusion it's a Canvas that you use for your style workflow. I don't use them, though. I prefer to measure what I can. I have a pretty good collection of precision measuring instruments, and I find that to be easier.