Wildman's TJ is getting a face lift

[Wildman]

I need to go verify these numbers but according to Wizards Cooling website the radiator has a 18.5" H x 18" W core.

Stock is:

8

Mishimoto core is:
18.1" x 19.2"

Champion is: But it's a downflow instead of crossflow
18.5" x 20"

Alloyworks is:
17.5" x 18.25"

Griffin core is:
18"H x 20"W

Be Cool is: It a downflow also
17" x 20"

 

[Wildman]

OK guys... Since I'm OLD you know like before air bags & fan clutches type OLD....

So if I'm going to run a mechanical fan I've got two options IMO.....

1) Run a fan clutch and stock or stockish type fan. It seems a 5 blade was a stock TJ fan but there are 7 blade fans I can get but they are larger too.

2) Run a hub which is a direct drive and then a 15" or 16" or 17" fan....

Since this isn't a street driven rig I'm wondering if there is any added benefit of running a fan clutch?

Lets hear what ya'll think....

 

[lBasket]

OK guys... Since I'm OLD you know like before air bags & fan clutches type OLD....

So if I'm going to run a mechanical fan I've got two options IMO.....

1) Run a fan clutch and stock or stockish type fan. It seems a 5 blade was a stock TJ fan but there are 7 blade fans I can get but they are larger too.

2) Run a hub which is a direct drive and then a 15" or 16" or 17" fan....

Since this isn't a street driven rig I'm wondering if there is any added benefit of running a fan clutch?

Lets hear what ya'll think....

If you have no clutch and decide to go snow wheeling will you end up with no heat?

 

[Wildman]

If you have no clutch and decide to go snow wheeling will you end up with no heat?

All a fan clutch does is disengage the cooling fan when going at a higher speed on the highway. It can help with the engine cooling better also but I think again that is only when driving at higher speeds.
So no it's not going to affect the heater temps.

AI answer

Key Benefits of a Fan Clutch

• Fuel Efficiency & Horsepower: The engine isn't constantly spinning the heavy fan at high RPMs, reducing parasitic load and saving fuel and horsepower, especially at highway speeds.
• Noise Reduction: With less fan engagement, there's significantly less fan roar, improving driver comfort.
• Precise Cooling: Clutches (especially 2-speed or variable types) engage fully only when the engine needs extra cooling, maintaining optimal operating temperatures more effectively than a fixed or always-on system.
• Extended Component Life: Fewer engagement cycles reduce wear on the fan, belt, and other components.
• Better Performance: More available engine power for acceleration and less strain on the engine, particularly in heavy-duty or stop-and-go applications like dump or garbage trucks.

 

[lBasket]

ai doodoo

Well idk my heavy duty clutch overcools in colder temps and my original one didnt. My understanding is the viscous clutch in it engages more with less heat then the original. So if it was always fully engaged, it would be even worse wouldn't it?

 

[John Cooper]

All a fan clutch does is disengage the cooling fan when going at a higher speed on the highway. It can help with the engine cooling better also but I think again that is only when driving at higher speeds.
So no it's not going to affect the heater temps.

AI answer

Key Benefits of a Fan Clutch

• Fuel Efficiency & Horsepower: The engine isn't constantly spinning the heavy fan at high RPMs, reducing parasitic load and saving fuel and horsepower, especially at highway speeds.
• Noise Reduction: With less fan engagement, there's significantly less fan roar, improving driver comfort.
• Precise Cooling: Clutches (especially 2-speed or variable types) engage fully only when the engine needs extra cooling, maintaining optimal operating temperatures more effectively than a fixed or always-on system.
• Extended Component Life: Fewer engagement cycles reduce wear on the fan, belt, and other components.
• Better Performance: More available engine power for acceleration and less strain on the engine, particularly in heavy-duty or stop-and-go applications like dump or garbage trucks.

Clutchless.

 

[Woodrow]

If

All a fan clutch does is disengage the cooling fan when going at a higher speed on the highway. It can help with the engine cooling better also but I think again that is only when driving at higher speeds.
So no it's not going to affect the heater temps.

AI answer

Key Benefits of a Fan Clutch

• Fuel Efficiency & Horsepower: The engine isn't constantly spinning the heavy fan at high RPMs, reducing parasitic load and saving fuel and horsepower, especially at highway speeds.
• Noise Reduction: With less fan engagement, there's significantly less fan roar, improving driver comfort.
• Precise Cooling: Clutches (especially 2-speed or variable types) engage fully only when the engine needs extra cooling, maintaining optimal operating temperatures more effectively than a fixed or always-on system.
• Extended Component Life: Fewer engagement cycles reduce wear on the fan, belt, and other components.
• Better Performance: More available engine power for acceleration and less strain on the engine, particularly in heavy-duty or stop-and-go applications like dump or garbage trucks.

If it fits, I'd use a mechanical fan with a clutch because 1) more reliable than electric fan 2) less noise than no clutch.

 

[Wildman]

ai doodoo

Well idk my heavy duty clutch overcools in colder temps and my original one didnt. My understanding is the viscous clutch in it engages more with less heat then the original. So if it was always fully engaged, it would be even worse wouldn't it?

I doubt I'll have issues with it being over cooled since the Hemi runs so warm. And there's always the cardboard in front of the radiator if needed.

Clutchless.

Care to say why?

It fits, I'd use a mechanical fan with a clutch because 1) more reliable than electric fan 2) less noise than no clutch.

Yes it fits. I think they'd used the Hemi truck fan but I need to pull it off and measure the fan again. At this point it's huge IMO. So I'd like to install a smaller diameter fan if possible. Again I'm not sure the noise issue applies here since I'm not driving down the road @ 65 MPH for hours. When on the trail @ 20 MPH or less I don't know that it'd matter. But again I guess if it was I can always swap it back to a clutch...

I can always return to the electric fan or a clutched fan even if I did go clutchless.

 

[lBasket]

I doubt I'll have issues with it being over cooled since the Hemi runs so warm. And there's always the cardboard in front of the radiator if needed.



Care to say why?



Yes it fits. I think they'd used the Hemi truck fan but I need to pull it off and measure the fan again. At this point it's huge IMO. So I'd like to install a smaller diameter fan if possible. Again I'm not sure the noise issue applies here since I'm not driving down the road @ 65 MPH for hours. When on the trail @ 20 MPH or less I don't know that it'd matter. But again I guess if it was I can always swap it back to a clutch...

I can always return to the electric fan or a clutched fan even if I did go clutchless.

Yeah I mean if you don't mind the cardboard deal it isn't a big problem, I'm probably not going to bother buying another new clutch to avoid it. If I was designing from scratch I'd probably try to avoid it if I knew, but again, not a huge deal really. I have no idea how loud clutch less would be I've never been bothered by the fan noise in the TJ personally

 

[Wildman]

Yeah I mean if you don't mind the cardboard deal it isn't a big problem, I'm probably not going to bother buying another new clutch to avoid it. If I was designing from scratch I'd probably try to avoid it if I knew, but again, not a huge deal really. I have no idea how loud clutch less would be I've never been bothered by the fan noise in the TJ personally

It's funny with all the noise complaints I have read on here... I used to drive my TJ for hours with the top on or just a Safari top on it... But then I'm also used to CJ's which had more noises than a TJ...
And I'm also very used to military rigs with soft tops that were loud as heck so a noisy Jeep isn't going to bother me. And I'm also from the era where we didn't have a clutch... And I don't remember them being that noisy...

Just like I've read that the cowl intake was supposed to be noisy. IMO I hardly ever hear it...

 

[John Cooper]

Care to say why?

All the clutch is for noise reduction at highway speed and to free up minimal HP.

Think back to the older cars when we were young none ran a fan clutch. There was a replacement fan where the fan blades would flatten out at highway speeds to keep noise down.

You don't care about the noise at trail speeds and and a few HP will not be missed.

 

[lBasket]

a few HP will not be missed.

Until he wheels with someone with an LS

 

[Wildman]

All the clutch is for noise reduction at highway speed and to free up minimal HP.

Think back to the older cars when we were young none ran a fan clutch. There was a replacement fan where the fan blades would flatten out at highway speeds to keep noise down.

You don't care about the noise at trail speeds and and a few HP will not be missed.

Yes this was my thoughts too but I wasn't positive I was remembering things correctly.

Until he wheels with someone with an LS

Because then we'd be more on a level playing field??? You know less HP of a LS compared to a Hemi? I doubt that 2-3 HP I'd be losing is going to make me think I've got a LS in my Jeep...

 

[Woodrow]

It's funny with all the noise complaints I have read on here... I used to drive my TJ for hours with the top on or just a Safari top on it...

I have to admit that I don’t enjoy my TJ under most circumstances for long highway rides.

But then I'm also used to CJ's which had more noises than a TJ...
And I'm also very used to military rigs with soft tops that were loud as heck so a noisy Jeep isn't going to bother me. And I'm also from the era where we didn't have a clutch... And I don't remember them being that noisy...

Just like I've read that the cowl intake was supposed to be noisy. IMO I hardly ever hear it...

That one doesn’t bug me either.

I guess it depends on the fan, but to me, on the highway the fan is probably less annoying than at walking speed on a trail with the top off. Another example, when my 5.0 Mustang is just idling it has a nice burble and minimal mechanical noise. Then it becomes less pleasant when the fan kicks on.

 

[Wildman]

Well I'd started off with good intentions this morning and then got caught up in researching information instead...
@hosejockey61 bite me....
Baring any major issues I won't be right seating @ Sand Hollow this year.

So YES this fan is huge... 20" diameter.

So either way I will be ordering a new fan blades.
I have decided that since I've got the room I'll run a mechanical fan.

Now I've just got to verify which type of fan I'd need if I went clutchless.
Standard or reverse rotation. From what I've read it is a standard rotation.

But I want to double check before I order anything.

 

[Wildman]

I guess it depends on the fan, but to me, on the highway the fan is probably less annoying than at walking speed on a trail with the top off. Another example, when my 5.0 Mustang is just idling it has a nice burble and minimal mechanical noise. Then it becomes less pleasant when the fan kicks on.

Where I agree with John on this is because of 1 less thing to worry about. Not that a fan clutch goes out all that often. My one main concern with running a cluthless setup is those rare times I might get into deep water crossings. From my old days in running clutchless I did put my fan into my radiator when getting into deep water. A clutch most times will allow the fan to stop.

 

[Wildman]

Since I don't know the history of the fan clutch that I currently have I ordered a new one. It's a Hayden unit.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000C39C2C?tag=wranglerorg-20

And a Derale 17" fan

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004XOO0AK?tag=wranglerorg-20

And the Speedway shroud.....

It's only money.... Tomorrow I'm going to the UofWA for another socket trial. IF things work out I'll be wearing it home... I'm excited too since this is an adjustable socket meaning I don't have to change out my socks due to volume change. And it's my mad money maker... Pays for all those extras.

 

[Zorba]

I'm going to stick the radiator in without the electric fan on it and see if I could fit the mechanical fan also.
Plus then I can check the clearance for the Camero fan.

I'd think about an air dam of some kind on the backside of the overhang...

 

[Wildman]

So today was in the lab only because they want to cast me for a new socket due to my weight loss & my limb shrinkage which they'll do once I get my new socket. So I'll go back in about 4 weeks and they'll do a 3D scan of my new socket & my limb then while I'm gone on my trip they'll build me a new socket and when I get back I'll go back in and then get to wear it home for 3 weeks... Then I wear my regular socket for 2 weeks and then wear this test socket again for another 3 weeks.

These 3 panels move in or out depending on how much it senses if the socket isn't tight enough or too tight. How they do this is Black Magic to me but this is some of the COOL shit our universities are turning out now days.

It's actually pretty COOL too... It has an auto/manual mode so you can either just make adjustments manually or set it on auto and it does it for you. Again this will most likely never come to market before I'm dead & gone but it's still an honor to get to be part of the development.

 

[Zorba]

I'd think about an air dam of some kind on the backside of the overhang...

No? What am I missing?