They're too small to get the most bass and midbass, but with the size constraints of the dash we're stuck with them unless we want to get really custom with our install. Sealing around the sides definitely helps. I use a layer of butyl rubber between the plate and the pod, it made a noticeable difference.
Upgrading the sound system on your Jeep Wrangler TJ
- Thread starter Chris
- Start date
They're too small to get the most bass and midbass, but with the size constraints of the dash we're stuck with them unless we want to get really custom with our install. Sealing around the sides definitely helps. I use a layer of butyl rubber between the plate and the pod, it made a noticeable difference.
Here's a good example of an IB build:
Instead of needing a massive enclosure for this sub the vehicle itself acts as the enclosure. A box for a sub this size would take up most of the back cargo area, but with this setup the back of the sub empties directly to the outside. It lets you bypass the normal volume requirements for an enclosure while still getting a ton of low-end.
Instead of needing a massive enclosure for this sub the vehicle itself acts as the enclosure. A box for a sub this size would take up most of the back cargo area, but with this setup the back of the sub empties directly to the outside. It lets you bypass the normal volume requirements for an enclosure while still getting a ton of low-end.
I went IB in my XJ 16 years ago. Saves space and is the best for very low frequencies, as boxes act as a high-pass filter. This is a 15" fi car audio sub. Wish they were still available.
I'd like to try IB in the TJ as there's even less storage space than the XJ, but I haven't figured out a good solution yet.
I like my bass like I like my tire pressure: in the single digits.
That looks awesome! Some of those old subs play well better than the stuff we have today.
I have a few ideas for my TJ. The next step is building kick panels for a pair of 8" midbasses I picked up. It'll be my first time playing with fiberglass, so now I'm just trying to figure out how to get started
I have a couple of sub ideas that I'm debating. No teasers yet, but once it's rocking I'll post some pictures.
My current sub setup is pretty great, but being a ported box it kills everything 30 hurts and below. It was well worth the 10 decibel boost to go ported, but I miss those low lows. Considering buying some bass shakers for the front seats.
Thedogsbollocks
TJ Enthusiast
Respectfully disagree… after market speakers to fit for example in the dash are not made for or require a closed pod.
They will sound better without it particularly the higher quality speakers you go with. The secret is bridging the space between the front of the speaker and the TJs grills. The reflections you refer to are just of no concern in a vehicle. ( at home bouncing of side and rear walls sure) I’m making a suggestion, that’s it , take it or leave it. I would say I’ve never seen any examples of where a pro intaller would add these. Just sayin
Thedogsbollocks
TJ Enthusiast
So based on this we should all cut the backs (tops) out of the factory ROPs pods then?
I would. The only thing these will do is keep any dirt ets getter my to the coil. You’ll much more if you create a speaker ring to fill the space between the front of the speaker and the grill. This helps get all the sound into the cabin.
I run Polk DB522 speakers front and rear in the stock locations, with a Bazooka 6.5 sub also in the stock location, all driven by a Soundstream Nano PNS 640D Class D amp. The head unit is a Kenwood DNX697S.
The dash speakers are mounted in soft pods - based on the last few pages here I'm not sure whether that is good or bad - although it does sound like sealing the space between the speaker face and the dash grills would help.
Performance is good, with plenty of power, but to my untrained ear the clarity is a bit lacking. I'm thinking of adding component tweeter pods on the dash - something like this:
https://www.crutchfield.com/S-ptSHQ...y0RXTCMSD1vwvveqvzw9k8UowXAPYVRBoCtcEQAvD_BwE
Good idea? Alternative suggestions?
I'm also unsure on the wiring. The Crutchfield description of the Kicker's states that the crossover is built in. Do tweeters like this get wired in with the front speakers somehow, or separately?
Any advice appreciated.
The dash speakers are mounted in soft pods - based on the last few pages here I'm not sure whether that is good or bad - although it does sound like sealing the space between the speaker face and the dash grills would help.
Performance is good, with plenty of power, but to my untrained ear the clarity is a bit lacking. I'm thinking of adding component tweeter pods on the dash - something like this:
https://www.crutchfield.com/S-ptSHQ...y0RXTCMSD1vwvveqvzw9k8UowXAPYVRBoCtcEQAvD_BwE
Good idea? Alternative suggestions?
I'm also unsure on the wiring. The Crutchfield description of the Kicker's states that the crossover is built in. Do tweeters like this get wired in with the front speakers somehow, or separately?
Any advice appreciated.
The crossover they are referring to is a built in high pass filter in the wiring connecting the speaker to the source. (Look under Additional Details on the Amazon listing.)
If you are going to run these in conjunction with your current front speakers, you will probably want to use a two way crossover instead. (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01BKGC5KK?tag=wranglerorg-20)
His Kenwood is part of the Excelon range they have built in 3 way active crossovers.
Respectfully disagree… after market speakers to fit for example in the dash are not made for or require a closed pod.
They will sound better without it particularly the higher quality speakers you go with. The secret is bridging the space between the front of the speaker and the TJs grills. The reflections you refer to are just of no concern in a vehicle. ( at home bouncing of side and rear walls sure) I’m making a suggestion, that’s it , take it or leave it. I would say I’ve never seen any examples of where a pro intaller would add these. Just sayin
Most speakers are not made to be free air speakers. You lose a lot of mid-bass if you go free air in a speaker not designed for it. I tested my speakers with the factory open back design and again in pods, and I nearly doubled the midbass output. Most people that have switched to pods in their TJ dash report louder, tighter bass.
The biggest problem with the dash speakers, other than not being a sealed space, is the location and position. At their current orientation you get a massive drop at 180 Hz at the listener's position. They face downward, away from the listener, so you're very off-axis. Once you get into the higher frequencies you get big shift in frequency response because of this. The best way to combat it is to place speakers on top of the dash facing the listener or facing across and slightly off-axis to the listener.
Reflections are one of the biggest concerns in vehicle installations. All of the various surfaces lead to sound wave reflection which leads to cancellation as well as abnormal peaks in the frequency response. In a room you can easily control reflections by placement of furniture, wall hangings, etc. You can't control this nearly as well in vehicles. Get a calibrated microphone (I use the UMIK-1 from MiniDSP) and download REW (Room EQ Wizard, used to measure frequency response with a calibrated mic). Play pink noise through your home setup and your car setup. Same pink noise, but you'll see a much wilder frequency response in a vehicle versus a room in a house, even if you ran the same speakers/amplifier,input. It's due to the various surfaces bouncing sound waves around, as well as sympathetic vibration from the different materials in the car interior.
Installing components on the dash will give you the best clarity. I have 3" drivers in small pods and separate tweeters mounted above them. Try to keep the tweeters and woofers as close together physically as you can; distance between drivers can lead to issues.
As far how to wire them,, it depends on your goals and how much you want to invest. My tweeters, midrange woofers, midbass woofers, and subwoofers are all connected to DSPs that let me set the crossover points for each driver as well as gives me the ability to individually EQ each driver. There's a lot more cost and setup time involved when going this route, but the results are amazing. If you buy a set of component drivers they normally come with their own passive crossovers, which, with most brands, work well enough.
Normally you feed the output from your head unit/amplifier into the passive crossovers, then connect the drivers to the crossovers. Each pair of drivers (tweeter and woofer) are on the same output channel from the head unit/amplifier. If you go fully active (using a DSP) you'll need a separate amplifier channel for each tweeter and each woofer. In my setup I have a 4-channel amp that feeds the tweeters and midranges, a 4-channel amp bridged to 2 channels to run my midbasses, and mono amps driving the subwoofers.
Thanks for all the info, and taking the time to reply.
This is what I wound up doing, posted over on my build thread:
https://wranglertjforum.com/threads/nashville-tjs-build-continued.42035/post-1755259
Thedogsbollocks
TJ Enthusiast
Well this is more contentious than I intended. I don’t agree with you at about
wow lol this is proving a little contentious.
I gotta say your are wrong. Practically all vehicles speakers are designed for open back use. The reflections you talk about apply in home audio but not in car audio. I suggest there is hardly anywhere that would produce a direct reflection behind a dash… in fact quite the opposite . With it being so cluttered with stuff behind the dash I’d suggest there are zero direct reflections at all, all those wires etc if anything act as a defuser actually getting rid of any direct reflections.
Anyway I bowing out of this one , do whatever you want. Use closed back pods if you want but they will affect negatively the performance of car speakers designed for an open space. You are confusing at home HiFi theory with a car installation. ( Do ANY of the very hi end premium speakers , mids or tweets come supplied with spongy pods- No.)
I am confused at you comment about ‘ facing downward and ‘ the biggest concern in car audio is reflections.
My TJ dash speakers face forward ( the overheads are clearly equivalent to rear speakers and there for are for fill in not imagining. The remark about reflections is completely nonsense. You are right that the secret to great car audio is to get the sound ‘ up high’. To do this a good pair of mids in the dash and a pair of tweeters in the A pillars work perfectly to do this. Dash mounted too will work but they look unsightly in my humble opinion . I’ve included a pic of what I did for dash and tweeters… regards John.
Fun fact: car audio and home audio, hifi or not, is pretty much the same. It's just the listening environment is a lot more difficult to control in a vehicle. I'm not sure why you think the physics of sound somehow changes between a home and car application.
"
Reflections:
Reflections happen when a speaker's sound waves strike hard, non-permeable surfaces as the waves radiate into the listening area. These reflections can also occur AFTER the listener hears the sound, and it reacts with hard surfaces behind said listener. Reflections cause the sound waves to bounce off the surface and travel in a direct fashion, rather than a radiant fashion, after the interaction. This can cause the sound to seemingly have two point sources, detracting from the imaging department. Reflections can also cause frequency cancellations if they force the sound waves to interfere with the direct sound coming from the speakers. This will give you frequency response errors in the form of "peaks and dips" on a real-time analyzer (RTA). Since every human being perceives sound differently to begin with, reflections can also cause these problems WITHOUT causing frequency cancellation. I am trying to keep this simple, so we won't go into the physiology of hearing. Understand that all cars have reflective surfaces. Center consoles and windows are the biggest culprits here."
https://www.teamaudionutz.com/tutor...hen a speaker's,are the biggest culprits here.
Reflections happen no matter if you're in a house, a car, or a cardboard box on the side of the road. Sound reflects, and those sound waves can negatively impact the quality of the sound you're trying to reproduce. This is known fact, not some wild "hifi theory". I've witnessed it personally from testings the output both with and without the pods, and with the pods the frequency output is much smoother with far fewer peaks and valleys in the response graph.
The wires behind the dash are enough to break up some of the reflections but not nearly enough to prevent them from entering the cab.
The speakers in the factory dash location do not face toward the listening position, where your ears will actually be while you're listening (unless you put your head in your lap while you jam). They face towards the driver, but with a slight downward angle. Given the directionality of sound waves when the wavelengths are shorter you face directionality issues, especially if those speakers are playing full spectrum.
As the wavelengths get smaller (higher frequencies) they become more directional. If you're running the factory 5.25" speakers you can see that over 2700 Hz the dispersion pattern starts to narrow, so now those frequencies are "beaming" straight out from the woofer instead of dispersing. When the speakers aren't aimed towards the listening position you start to lose sound quality.
Moving my 3" drivers and .75" tweeters to my dash eliminated a lot of sound quality issues I had with the factory installation locations. There was a massive dip at 180 Hz that is now mostly gone, and the overall response is much smoother.
You are right about the sound bar being for fill and not imaging, though I'm going to play with using a differential rear fill on a time delay (like the old-style surround sound). For good imaging the best (and easiest) setup is to have all of speakers in front of the listening position, minus the subwoofer. Once I build my kick panels pods I'll share the results, but I'm sure it'll be a significant improvement.
Thedogsbollocks
TJ Enthusiast
I love your working as hard as you are to get Thea best sound you can. Me too.
It’s been a hobby of mine forever. I agree that speakers mounted on the dash are probably as good as anything.
I’ll post my set up as soon as I finish overhauling it.
Currently: Tweeters in A pillars. Mids in dash. 6” mids in footwell with separate angled tweeters. All JL audio.
Overheads have Hertz speakers with overheads inside treated with sound deadening ( huge improvement).
Rear: two marine 8” recessed into trunk ‘parcel shelf ‘ . A 10” Sub in sealed box is in trunk area. All driven by 3 marine amps and a JL sound processor that takes the sound from the head unit and processes it to deliver a pure, quality signal to the amps. A JL Bluetooth receiver is also fitted right beside the radioradio in dash. This allows streaming from phone at CD quality, it’s great. The factory sub in the console was replaced by a smaller Kicker competition sub with whole thing treated with roadkill.
Some pics here are just for fyi if interested. This week I’m currently tidying up the installation at the back. I’ll let you see when finished.
It’s been a hobby of mine forever. I agree that speakers mounted on the dash are probably as good as anything.
I’ll post my set up as soon as I finish overhauling it.
Currently: Tweeters in A pillars. Mids in dash. 6” mids in footwell with separate angled tweeters. All JL audio.
Overheads have Hertz speakers with overheads inside treated with sound deadening ( huge improvement).
Rear: two marine 8” recessed into trunk ‘parcel shelf ‘ . A 10” Sub in sealed box is in trunk area. All driven by 3 marine amps and a JL sound processor that takes the sound from the head unit and processes it to deliver a pure, quality signal to the amps. A JL Bluetooth receiver is also fitted right beside the radioradio in dash. This allows streaming from phone at CD quality, it’s great. The factory sub in the console was replaced by a smaller Kicker competition sub with whole thing treated with roadkill.
Some pics here are just for fyi if interested. This week I’m currently tidying up the installation at the back. I’ll let you see when finished.
Last edited:
I love your working as hard as you are to get Thea best sound you can. Me too.
It’s been a hobby of mine forever. I agree that speakers mounted on the dash are probably as good as anything.
I’ll post my set up as soon as I finish overhauling it.
Currently: Tweeters in A pillars. Mids in dash. 6” mids in footwell with separate angled tweeters. All JL audio.
Overheads have Hertz speakers with overheads inside treated with sound deadening ( huge improvement).
Rear: two marine 8” recessed into trunk ‘parcel shelf ‘ . A 10” Sub in sealed box is in trunk area. All driven by 3 marine amps and a JL sound processor that takes the sound from the head unit and processes it to deliver a pure, quality signal to the amps. A JL Bluetooth receiver is also fitted right beside the radioradio in dash. This allows streaming from phone at CD quality, it’s great. The factory sub in the console was replaced by a smaller Kicker competition sub with whole thing treated with roadkill.
Some pics here are just for fyi if interested. This week I’m currently tidying up the installation at the back. I’ll let you see when finished.
View attachment 627384View attachment 627383View attachment 627372
View attachment 627392
View attachment 627402
It's a rabbit hole, but a fun one!
Are you using the JL Twk DSP? I had one for a few years until it burned out, but I loved it. Just wish it could do shelf filters and all-pass filters with phase change. I'm using the Dayton 408, which so far has held up very well.
What enclosure are you using for your footwell drivers? I'm about to try my hand at fiberglassing kick panels, though I can't figure out the route I want to take with them just yet.
This is a bit dated, so wanted to ask your recommendation currently. We have a 2001 Wrangler and wanting to upgrade the sound system. Surprising the player you recommended back then is still for sale on Amazon, but I'm thinking there might be better options these days. We're newbies at this so building our plan and would appreciate your thoughts.
I’d still stick with the speakers and everything, I would probably just go with a newer head unit is all. The speakers and everything else would be fine even still.
They make pods you can install in the rear next to your bench seat. You *could* make pods and install them anywhere you like. I have a buddy with a TJ that has several attached to his roll bar on the sides, big 10" speakers, and they work for him.
My suggestion would be 6.5" pods that go between the front seat and the door. They're about $80 a pair on Amazon, load those with high sensitivity speakers and you'll get the volume you need, as long as you use an aftermarket head unit or an amp.
If you want to go DEEP into the rabbit hole I could make several other suggestions, but it'll get more expensive.
Polk or JBL speakers are good. Same size. There may be better, newer models. Idk. But those are the top two affordable brands. I used Polk in my TJ and JBL in my JKU. Try not to spend much more than $65 per set.
The head unit may come in a better newer unit as well. I would look at Amazon reviews and search AI.
Polyfil for sure. And there are padded enclosures for the dash placement that work very well.
I used the stock locations in my TJ. But the alternative locations suggested above might get you better sound. But I don't know what additional work is required. Or how big the benefit is.
I used a cheap 7 inch touchscreen android head unit from AliExpress in my TJ. Get android OS only - not Android Auto. It worked very well and sounded great for a soft top TJ. It cost me $75 8 years ago. Connected to my phone flawlessly. Took maybe 15 seconds to do so when Jeep started. So not instant. But good enough.
The newer units with android os and Android Auto are a PITA in my humble opinion. I have put three into my JKU. And the older simpler units without android auto are way easier to deal with. And pretty much plug and play.
Android auto is the tech industry trying to take over automobile software. They are in a fight with the auto industry over this. The auto industry wants to stick with android is only. Which is not controlled by anyone. You can load any apps you want. And no body owns your data.
The head unit may come in a better newer unit as well. I would look at Amazon reviews and search AI.
Polyfil for sure. And there are padded enclosures for the dash placement that work very well.
I used the stock locations in my TJ. But the alternative locations suggested above might get you better sound. But I don't know what additional work is required. Or how big the benefit is.
I used a cheap 7 inch touchscreen android head unit from AliExpress in my TJ. Get android OS only - not Android Auto. It worked very well and sounded great for a soft top TJ. It cost me $75 8 years ago. Connected to my phone flawlessly. Took maybe 15 seconds to do so when Jeep started. So not instant. But good enough.
The newer units with android os and Android Auto are a PITA in my humble opinion. I have put three into my JKU. And the older simpler units without android auto are way easier to deal with. And pretty much plug and play.
Android auto is the tech industry trying to take over automobile software. They are in a fight with the auto industry over this. The auto industry wants to stick with android is only. Which is not controlled by anyone. You can load any apps you want. And no body owns your data.
You really need to figure out a few things before asking for recommendations.
What is your budget, what music do you play most, will you install and what is your skillset, and finally how donyou play music, am/fm radio, cds, stream, all the above?
Do you just want a new head unit or do you want the system to play crisper, louder or both.
Similar threads
