Engine swap ideas

[BlueC]

I gonna have to google the atlas 4200 LL8.

You've probably heard it called the Vortec 4200. Lots of (maybe all) mid 2000s trailblazers had them.

 

[CreepinDeth]

I’d expect a V8 swap to cost at least 10K, and I’d expect it to climb higher quickly.

my first LS swap was a 2004 GTO LS1/4L60e eith 26K on it for $4500. By the time I was done, it was $12,000

My 2nd LS3 swap was into my 1970 Olds 442
Its not as cheap and easy as people think

Costs can easily spiral
Cheapest Ive seen it done was a $1000 5.3L Gen3 into a 1968 Olds and it ran him in the realm if $5,000 with him doing the reconstruction of the ECU wiring pinouts

I would never consider a GM 4.3L
Its a downgrade from the torquey 4.0L

 

[Wildman]

From some of the forums

You can't really compare them at all - TOTALLY different styles of engines. Yes, the torque is higher on the GM 4200, but I think what you'll find is that the 4.0 Jeep I-6 has much more 'useable' torque 'down low' where you need it. You have to wind the 4200 I-6 out to get power from it, and so it won't feel as powerful as a 4.0 I-6. If you are doing SERIOUS off-roading, you DON'T want the GM 4200 I-6.

If GM had ever put the 4.2 in something that wasn't a big porky mall crawler, it would have gained a better following. (extracting tongue from cheek...) Seriously, I agree with the comment that the 4.0 had more usable torque for its intended purpose (offroad crawling). It's got scads of torque right off idle. Heck, mine's never even *seen* the high side of 3600 RPM because there's just no need to take it up there (and it doesn't really have anything up there either). Plus the 4.0 a brutally simple and rugged engine. The 4.2 is significantly more complex. When emissions/crash safety (mostly the latter...) killed the 4.0, I was very glad that Jeep engineers picked the available Chrysler engine that was *the most* similar to the 4.0 in terms of power delivery, ruggedness, and simplicity- the pushrod iron block 3.8 v6- instead of being tempted for the bigger numbers available with the 4.0 SOHC aluminum v6.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/gm-4200-vortec-vs-amc-chrysler-4-0l.121555/

 

[Wildman]

my first LS swap was a 2004 GTO LS1/4L60e eith 26K on it for $4500. By the time I was done, it was $12,000

My 2nd LS3 swap was into my 1970 Olds 442
Its not as cheap and easy as people think

Costs can easily spiral
Cheapest Ive seen it done was a $1000 5.3L Gen3 into a 1968 Olds and it ran him in the realm if $5,000 with him doing the reconstruction of the ECU wiring pinouts

This is why for the 1997-2002 TJ I always suggest a Magnum V-8 swap first. Depending on what you pay for the donor rig there were folks that did the swap for under $2K after selling off parts.

 

[Steel City 06]

If torque is the goal, how about an Ecoboost? Most new ones will run 12-15 PSI of boost at just 2,000 RPM on 87 octane, and max out at 20 PSI around 3,000-6,000 RPM

 

[Wildman]

 

[RINC]

View attachment 482705

Fuck that AI shit.

 

[Wildman]

Fuck that AI shit.

 

[PNW_LJ]

View attachment 482759

A CJ on coilovers…

I can get behind that.

 

[XCRN]

I say LS. I got better fuel economy, nothing crazy, and it definitly can be done for less than $5k if you purchase all the parts right and do the work your self. But if I were to do it again, I would go 6L80 over manual because the motor revs real high at highway speeds with the short 5th gear or taller axle gearing. I figured 3.73 on 31s would be okay and its way too much gearing. Going from 3.08 to 3.73 I noticed no difference in power coming from a stock 5.3. Exhaust routing for me has been the worst part for me. Im still not happy with it but it works. Im going to do a Gen V 5.3 in a LJ next with 6L80.

 

[Wildman]

I say LS. I got better fuel economy, nothing crazy, and it definitly can be done for less than $5k if you purchase all the parts right and do the work your self. But if I were to do it again, I would go 6L80 over manual because the motor revs real high at highway speeds with the short 5th gear or taller axle gearing. I figured 3.73 on 31s would be okay and its way too much gearing. Going from 3.08 to 3.73 I noticed no difference in power coming from a stock 5.3. Exhaust routing for me has been the worst part for me. Im still not happy with it but it works. Im going to do a Gen V 5.3 in a LJ next with 6L80.

What gauges were you running? If the stock dash did everything work? Here in the PNW you're lucky to find a take out engine for under $1500 and then it's got 100K miles & if you get the transmission with it you're looking at $2K minimum for both and if you want a lower mileage engine it's $3500+
This is why I don't see it as a sub $5K swap.

 

[XCRN]

What gauges were you running? If the stock dash did everything work? Here in the PNW you're lucky to find a take out engine for under $1500 and then it's got 100K miles & if you get the transmission with it you're looking at $2K minimum for both and if you want a lower mileage engine it's $3500+
This is why I don't see it as a sub $5K swap.

Stock gauges. The only thing that is odd with it is the oil pressure. So engine not running key on, gauge goes straight to 40psi as the 0 point and goes up from there. Its odd but I know where problems begin. I think its an issue I did in wiring to cause it but it does what it needs to. Tach I got a module from Novak, but supposedly you may not need it at all for certain year clusters. So for me engine was free from a truck I parted out, but I can get 5.3 all day with harness for like $500 that ran when pulled. I was personally more into mine since EVERYTHING got rebuilt except trans during main build, but LS swap specific I was around the $4500 mark and that was paying for more premium stuff not just econo parts but also reused the existing trans. Im doing another one right now for someone else and its going to be way cheaper since I now know you don't need all these fancy things like stupid expensive headers that are “designed” for LS swaps when its just off the shelf components that work with the swap you can get knockoffs from ebay. I have also convinced my self it can be done for sub $2500 by REALLY cheaping out. I want to try that some day see how it works out with that kind of budget.

 

[Wildman]

Stock gauges. The only thing that is odd with it is the oil pressure. So engine not running key on, gauge goes straight to 40psi as the 0 point and goes up from there. Its odd but I know where problems begin. I think its an issue I did in wiring to cause it but it does what it needs to. Tach I got a module from Novak, but supposedly you may not need it at all for certain year clusters. So for me engine was free from a truck I parted out, but I can get 5.3 all day with harness for like $500 that ran when pulled. I was personally more into mine since EVERYTHING got rebuilt except trans during main build, but LS swap specific I was around the $4500 mark and that was paying for more premium stuff not just econo parts but also reused the existing trans. Im doing another one right now for someone else and its going to be way cheaper since I now know you don't need all these fancy things like stupid expensive headers that are “designed” for LS swaps when its just off the shelf components that work with the swap you can get knockoffs from ebay. I have also convinced my self it can be done for sub $2500 by REALLY cheaping out. I want to try that some day see how it works out with that kind of budget.

How about doing a Build Thread with a parts breakdown of how you're doing it and what you've found work?

And some tips on the wiring would be a big plus for those considering this for a swap.

Are you doing a Smog Legal Swap? All your emissions equipment hooked up? O2 sensors & cats?

Thanks

 

[Apparition]

What gauges were you running? If the stock dash did everything work? Here in the PNW you're lucky to find a take out engine for under $1500 and then it's got 100K miles & if you get the transmission with it you're looking at $2K minimum for both and if you want a lower mileage engine it's $3500+
This is why I don't see it as a sub $5K swap.

I see running 1500’s with LS and auto for sale for under $2k. Mileage is a little high but they are out there. The trucks fall apart before the drivetrain. Wrecked ones are cheaper.

 

[XCRN]

How about doing a Build Thread with a parts breakdown of how you're doing it and what you've found work?

And some tips on the wiring would be a big plus for those considering this for a swap.

Are you doing a Smog Legal Swap? All your emissions equipment hooked up? O2 sensors & cats?

Thanks

When I really start jumping into the LJ I might start making more videos but I might try and get something in the How-To section going after I get done with this second swap since its an auto 4L60 and ill need to learn that part a bit.

So I am not putting attention into making it smog legal since OH don't care, but I think my personal TJ could pass a sniffer check since I run a cat, but currently do not have post cat O2 or factory EVAP (which I want) and kind of know how to make work but not high priority on my list right now. My tank vents to the TJ charcoal canister and that has a hose that goes to the intake but no solenoids or sensors in between. I don't think there is any reasonable way to pass a CA test legitimately with how strict I have heard it can be. I don't know exactly what is needed though so this is just second hand info I have on CA smog testing.

Edit: This is my build thread but didnt keep up with everything towards the end.

https://wranglertjforum.com/threads/my-reunited-jeep-build.40798/

 

[Wildman]

I see running 1500’s with LS and auto for sale for under $2k. Mileage is a little high but they are out there. The trucks fall apart before the drivetrain. Wrecked ones are cheaper.

We don't see those prices here. I've shown you what things cost here in the PNW.

When I really start jumping into the LJ I might start making more videos but I might try and get something in the How-To section going after I get done with this second swap since its an auto 4L60 and ill need to learn that part a bit.

So I am not putting attention into making it smog legal since OH don't care, but I think my personal TJ could pass a sniffer check since I run a cat, but currently do not have post cat O2 or factory EVAP (which I want) and kind of know how to make work but not high priority on my list right now. My tank vents to the TJ charcoal canister and that has a hose that goes to the intake but no solenoids or sensors in between. I don't think there is any reasonable way to pass a CA test legitimately with how strict I have heard it can be. I don't know exactly what is needed though so this is just second hand info I have on CA smog testing.

Edit: This is my build thread but didnt keep up with everything towards the end.

https://wranglertjforum.com/threads/my-reunited-jeep-build.40798/

I'll read your build thread but as you said you've learned about some of the not needed stuff so it'd be cool if you could do a write up with what you've learned. As with anything the end cost is always dependent on the buy-in price. Just like I see Dana 60's in the midwest & east coast for $500 all the time but out here you can't touch one for under $1200-1500.

 

[XCRN]

We don't see those prices here. I've shown you what things cost here in the PNW.



I'll read your build thread but as you said you've learned about some of the not needed stuff so it'd be cool if you could do a write up with what you've learned. As with anything the end cost is always dependent on the buy-in price. Just like I see Dana 60's in the midwest & east coast for $500 all the time but out here you can't touch one for under $1200-1500.

When I get home I might start a rough draft of what I know now and leave some gaps for other stuff like going with automatics or newer gen 4/5 engines.

 

[Blackjack]

From some of the forums





https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/gm-4200-vortec-vs-amc-chrysler-4-0l.121555/

Those guys are not very bright. The final variant of the LL8 made 291 hp and 277 lb ft which 90 percent (245) was at 1800 rpm. The 4.0 only made 230 lb ft and that was at 3600 rpm. So it might sacrifice a tiny bit off idle but it flat smokes it everywhere else. And thanks for making me defend LSs ya hoser.

 

[Wildman]

Those guys are not very bright. The final variant of the LL8 made 291 hp and 277 lb ft which 90 percent (245) was at 1800 rpm. The 4.0 only made 230 lb ft and that was at 3600 rpm. So it might sacrifice a tiny bit off idle but it flat smokes it everywhere else. And thanks for making me defend LSs ya hoser.

You know you enjoyed it..

 

[PNW_LJ]

Just like I see Dana 60's in the midwest & east coast for $500 all the time but out here you can't touch one for under $1200-1500.

I see complete front D60s pop up for a grand every now and then.