Cooling fan upgrade comparison: Explorer 11-blade fan and HD clutch versus SPAL 19" 850-watt electric brushless fan

[Wildman]

I know you guys enjoy all the building stuff but wouldn't the temp sensors that SPAL sells for their fans work with this Camero fan also? While not cheap they work.

Just the temp sensor

https://wizardcooling.com/i-30504353-brushless-fan-temperature-switch.html

With wiring harness

https://wizardcooling.com/i-30500789-dual-fan-spal-brushless-fan-wiring-kit-195f-sensor.html

 

[Steel City 06]

I know you guys enjoy all the building stuff but wouldn't the temp sensors that SPAL sells for their fans work with this Camero fan also? While not cheap they work.

Just the temp sensor

https://wizardcooling.com/i-30504353-brushless-fan-temperature-switch.html

With wiring harness

https://wizardcooling.com/i-30500789-dual-fan-spal-brushless-fan-wiring-kit-195f-sensor.html

Those are for the aftermarket SPAL brushless fans only. To discourage people from using OEM fans (like we are doing), they reversed the control logic in the aftermarket fans compared to the standard OEM fans and then changed their sensor offerings to only match the aftermarket ones.

So if you used that on this fan, your fan would turn on at 100% at the minimum setpoint temperature and then ramp down to 30% and then shut off at the maximum temperature.

There's also the issue that those sensors are designed for narrow temperature bands only, and make it harder to control the system without having the fan cycle as it fights the thermostat.

 

[Wildman]

Those are for the aftermarket SPAL brushless fans only. To discourage people from using OEM fans (like we are doing), they reversed the control logic in the aftermarket fans compared to the standard OEM fans and then changed their sensor offerings to only match the aftermarket ones.

So if you used that on this fan, your fan would turn on at 100% at the minimum setpoint temperature and then ramp down to 30% and then shut off at the maximum temperature.

There's also the issue that those sensors are designed for narrow temperature bands only, and make it harder to control the system without having the fan cycle as it fights the thermostat.

Thanks for the explanation...

 

[lBasket]

Those are for the aftermarket SPAL brushless fans only. To discourage people from using OEM fans (like we are doing), they reversed the control logic in the aftermarket fans compared to the standard OEM fans and then changed their sensor offerings to only match the aftermarket ones.

So if you used that on this fan, your fan would turn on at 100% at the minimum setpoint temperature and then ramp down to 30% and then shut off at the maximum temperature.

There's also the issue that those sensors are designed for narrow temperature bands only, and make it harder to control the system without having the fan cycle as it fights the thermostat.

Jeez the Apple of brushless fans

 

[Steel City 06]

Jeez the Apple of brushless fans

It’s funny. They sell almost all of their OEM brushless fan variants in the aftermarket variants as well, except for the 19” 850-watt fan that everyone wants.

I suspect they’ll eventually come out with an aftermarket equivalent especially if GM complains that their stock of Camaro fans keeps getting wiped out.

If I had to guess, they probably just assumed few aftermarket buyers would stomach the cost of a 19” brushless fan and would instead go brushed (or brushless but smaller) to save money.

 

[Rickyd]

It’s funny. They sell almost all of their OEM brushless fan variants in the aftermarket variants as well, except for the 19” 850-watt fan that everyone wants.

I suspect they’ll eventually come out with an aftermarket equivalent especially if GM complains that their stock of Camaro fans keeps getting wiped out.

If I had to guess, they probably just assumed few aftermarket buyers would stomach the cost of a 19” brushless fan and would instead go brushed (or brushless but smaller) to save money.

Can you update post 1 with your latest parts list and setup? Thanks

 

[Steel City 06]

Can you update post 1 with your latest parts list and setup? Thanks

Parts list and setup is complete minus the diode (and junk hardware to mount the fan in the shroud). I’ll see if I can edit that in at some point

 

[Steel City 06]

Interesting update:

So I ended up reaching out to SPAL to see if they were planning on coming out with an aftermarket equivalent. I actually got a fairly quick response, and learned a few things in the discussion:

• SPAL does in fact plan to offer a 19" fan as an aftermarket option at some point. No hard details, but it will be brushless, and "certainly the most powerful fan in the aftermarket" to quote. Possibly some details being released later this year.
• They hinted that one of the biggest concerns with releasing such a high-powered fan was if people would actually wire it up correctly.
• Supposedly, there is an upgrade coming to the aftermarket SPAL sensors. No details yet on what this would involve.
• I also asked if they would be willing to name an OEM application of the 1,000-watt version of this fan. As I expected, they declined to answer that. (Presumably that is proprietary information of their customer.)

 

[MikeE024]

Interesting update:

So I ended up reaching out to SPAL to see if they were planning on coming out with an aftermarket equivalent. I actually got a fairly quick response, and learned a few things in the discussion:

• SPAL does in fact plan to offer a 19" fan as an aftermarket option at some point. No hard details, but it will be brushless, and "certainly the most powerful fan in the aftermarket" to quote. Possibly some details being released later this year.
• They hinted that one of the biggest concerns with releasing such a high-powered fan was if people would actually wire it up correctly.
• Supposedly, there is an upgrade coming to the aftermarket SPAL sensors. No details yet on what this would involve.
• I also asked if they would be willing to name an OEM application of the 1,000-watt version of this fan. As I expected, they declined to answer that. (Presumably that is proprietary information of their customer.)

Are there any programmable aftermarket controllers you’d recommend that linearly ramp up the aftermarket fan like your oem setup?

 

[Steel City 06]

Are there any programmable aftermarket controllers you’d recommend that linearly ramp up the aftermarket fan like your oem setup?

The Lingenfelter will do aftermarket ones as well. It is one of the settings you can select

 

[MikeE024]

The Lingenfelter will do aftermarket ones as well. It is one of the settings you can select

Would there be a benefit to getting the aftermarket version beyond preserving the OEM inventory for OEM applications?

 

[Steel City 06]

Would there be a benefit to getting the aftermarket version beyond preserving the OEM inventory for OEM applications?

Well for one, you wouldn't have to cut up a shroud just to get the one part you need. 2nd, you could use the SPAL aftermarket controllers as well as the Lingenfelter or an Arduino

 

[MikeE024]

Well for one, you wouldn't have to cut up a shroud just to get the one part you need. 2nd, you could use the SPAL aftermarket controllers as well as the Lingenfelter or an Arduino

Not needing to trim the e-fan fan down would be nice, but I really like the route you took blending the fan in with the TJ shroud.

I’m attempting to understand if the aftermarket version is more of an alternative or an upgrade to the oem version.

It sounds like the Lingenfelter and Arduino work for both versions. Using a narrow sensor for turning off/on and aftermarket version seems like a step backwards versus it ramping based on load.

Using the Lingenfelter settings you provided, the fan’s output when ECTs are 195-210 isn’t anywhere near full speed and imo the noise isn’t bad at all. However, the noise at full speed that we get with the override switch would be annoying to hear kick on during normal use.

 

[Steel City 06]

More interesting info from SPAL:

For those unfamiliar with the SPAL fan controller, it is a temperature sensor that outputs a signal in proportion to their fixed setpoints to control SPAL aftermarket fans. They also have an override max function that normally you hook directly to your AC or to an override switch (blue wire below). This is fine for your average small fan, but for a fan as powerful as this one is quite excessive (in my opinion).

But...
Apparently, this "override max" function is actually full analog control, and thus could actually be adjusted to any setpoint by simply adjusting the voltage applied, such as with a potentiometer. The fan simply operates at the higher of the two requested setpoints.

What this means is that we can use this pin to set a low minimum fan state for A/C (or just in general) without having to run it up to max. Meaning you can basically copy my entire control scheme with just a SPAL sensor and a potentiometer. Extrapolating this further, you could do this and still add an override max switch that bypasses the potentiometer, or heck even add a minimum speed control knob in the cabin, assuming you paid attention in high school electronics class.

Note that these sensors only work for the aftermarket SPAL fans for the reasons I noted a few posts back. But once the new 19" fans come out, anyone who adopts them can build a simpler control system using just the SPAL controller, a potentiometer, and a switch or two if desired. No need for the Lingenfelter controller, GM coolant sensor, or diode.

 

[Steel City 06]

If anyone is running one of these sensors, it could be interesting to play with. @NashvilleTJ or @Wildman, are you using the SPAL sensor on yours?

 

[Wildman]

More interesting info from SPAL:

For those unfamiliar with the SPAL fan controller, it is a temperature sensor that outputs a signal in proportion to their fixed setpoints to control SPAL aftermarket fans. They also have an override max function that normally you hook directly to your AC or to an override switch (blue wire below). This is fine for your average small fan, but for a fan as powerful as this one is quite excessive (in my opinion).

View attachment 602316

But...
Apparently, this "override max" function is actually full analog control, and thus could actually be adjusted to any setpoint by simply adjusting the voltage applied, such as with a potentiometer. The fan simply operates at the higher of the two requested setpoints.

What this means is that we can use this pin to set a low minimum fan state for A/C (or just in general) without having to run it up to max. Meaning you can basically copy my entire control scheme with just a SPAL sensor and a potentiometer. Extrapolating this further, you could do this and still add an override max switch that bypasses the potentiometer, or heck even add a minimum speed control knob in the cabin, assuming you paid attention in high school electronics class.

Note that these sensors only work for the aftermarket SPAL fans for the reasons I noted a few posts back. But once the new 19" fans come out, anyone who adopts them can build a simpler control system using just the SPAL controller, a potentiometer, and a switch or two if desired. No need for the Lingenfelter controller, GM coolant sensor, or diode.

I can say that when I had issues with my temperature sensor SPAL was great about getting it diagnosed and then replaced by Wizard Cooling. I haven't had my Hemi running long enough to say if the 300 watt 16" fan is going to be enough or if I'll have to step up to either the 500 watt version or this 19" as it might be cheaper overall.
I do appreciate you adding this additional information about the wiring & that I could control the speed by adjusting the voltage on the Blue wire.

 

[MikeE024]

Apparently, this "override max" function is actually full analog control, and thus could actually be adjusted to any setpoint by simply adjusting the voltage applied, such as with a potentiometer. The fan simply operates at the higher of the two requested setpoints.

What this means is that we can use this pin to set a low minimum fan state for A/C (or just in general) without having to run it up to max. Meaning you can basically copy my entire control scheme with just a SPAL sensor and a potentiometer. Extrapolating this further, you could do this and still add an override max switch that bypasses the potentiometer, or heck even add a minimum speed control knob in the cabin, assuming you paid attention in high school electronics class.

Awesome. I removed my question about adjusting the max because I figured you’d respond if it could be done. But, this is far beyond the capabilities I was wondering about.

For clarity, would this provide full adjustability for independently setting the min, max, and override function?

 

[Steel City 06]

Awesome. I removed my question about adjusting the max because I figured you’d respond if it could be done. But, this is far beyond the capabilities I was wondering about.

For clarity, would this provide full adjustability for independently setting the min, max, and override function?

Not quite, but it would allow you to choose a minimum fan speed to use whenever AC is on, and/or set a minimum fan speed (up to maximum) in the cabin with use of a knob.

Temperature setpoints are still not adjustable, and if you needed that, the Lingenfelter controller would be your better bet.

 

[Wildman]

I'll admit to reading all you've done but am wondering if this would help anyone out.. It's a Lingenfelter controller that's setup for A/C? JeepSpeed Shop says this is a special deal for them?

https://jeepspeedshop.com/product/lingenfelter-controller/

 

[NashvilleTJ]

If anyone is running one of these sensors, it could be interesting to play with. @NashvilleTJ or @Wildman, are you using the SPAL sensor on yours?

I do run the SPAL sensor in mine, driving their 500 watt brushless. The setup does work well for me, so no need to fool with it. But, when that 19"er, 1000 watt SPAL comes out...