Cooling fan upgrade comparison: Explorer 11-blade fan and HD clutch versus SPAL 19" 850-watt electric brushless fan

[GoldenGorilla]

Well, add me to the list of happy customers.


All in all this fan moves a TON of air, my finely calibrated hairline estimates 100% on the E-fan is about the same as 1200-1500 RPM on the mechanical fan. I am excited to see how the E-fan holds up in the summer, in combination with @Jezza's water-pump/ fan overdrive pulley hopefully I can keep this poor jeep below *220 idling with the A/C on in the summer.

It's so strange how that varies. Even in 100F weather in CO the hottest I've recorded the ECT was 199F with the AC on. Now with unseasonably warm "winter" temps in 50s and 60s I'm seeing it consistently report 190 and just touch 194 if I'm stopped at a light for a while. I wish my intake air temps would remain comparatively cooler like that. I want to do some longer climbs into the mountains followed by some slow idling to see if I get some sort of heat soaking showing in the ECTs.

Your comment about reducing interior noise and improving responsiveness has me thinking about this mod all the more.

 

[MikeE024]

Your comment about reducing interior noise and improving responsiveness has me thinking about this mod all the more.

It will be much louder in the summer than it is right now since cold air cools the fluid in the radiator more in the winter and tells the controller to keep the fan at a slower speed since it gets signal from the lower radiator hose.

That said, the noise it makes in the summer doesn’t bother me, and it’s nice hitting the throttle or being in higher RPMs without sounding like a small commercial truck due to the mechanical fan doing its thing.

I didn’t notice any power increases or improved throttle response, but that wasn’t a problem for me or why I did this.

I did this mainly so I can have the AC on for my dog in stop and go traffic or idling in 118* AZ brutal sunshine without the ECTs climbing to 225* plus on me.

And the 100% override is your friend in very extreme heat conditions (usually local summer traffic). Makes the AC blow cooler and sends the ECTs towards the 200* range.

 

[AjordanH]

I'll add my experience to this also. Maybe someone can help me and maybe my experience can help others. Most of you know I did a Hemi swap and have fought overheating since. To recap I started with a CG&J Hemi swap down flow style radiator, Flex-a-lite black magic electric fan, 195 thermostat, stock replacement Melling brand water pump, 16lb radiator cap. Idling and driving on backroads it was fine but if I got to highway speed it would overheat and boil coolant out within a few miles. I swapped to a mechanical fan of several varieties (Explorer fan with HD and Severe duty clutches, Stock 5 blade fan with stock and severe duty clutches, and a WJ 11 blade fan with HD and severe duty clutches). the WJ fan and severe duty clutch seemed to be the best option as it would mostly keep temps under control on the highway until summer time got here and outside temps were 90+ then with the AC on it would still push 220+ at sustained highway speeds. And at idle, traffic, or trail speeds it would overheat. Even in a drive through. I tried multiple radiator caps of 16, 18, 24, and 32lb. I replaced my water pump with a flowcooler brand pump. I bought the kit to check for combustion gasses in the coolant and it does not show any signs of a head gasket leak or crack. I went through multiple thermostats including a Mopar 203, I settled on a 180 with a 5/16 hole drilled at the top of the flange after 3 different ones stuck closed on me. I finally broke down and purchased a crossflow style radiator from Engineered Cooling Products and the 850w Camaro fan. I am using the Widgetman PWM controller. I used Jeep Speed Shop fan spider and modified it to fit my radiator shroud. I had to replace my OE overflow bottle with a smaller aftermarket unit. With my current combination in this cooler weather I can easily control my operating temps in all driving conditions I have subjected it to. I still have a couple problems though.

#1 Even with a 32lb cap and engine temps well below 200 my radiator still pushes coolant out of the overflow bottle. I can start with a cold engine and coolant 4+ inches down in the radiator below the top and the overflow bottle empty. Within 40 miles, I will have coolant on my fender, hood, and windshield. It will eventually overheat when the coolant is gone!

#2 With the AC override on and fan at +50% (which is more like 75-80% with engine at operating speed and fan already running) my alternator can't keep up. Especially at idle. It will dim my lights at idle, but even at highway speeds my check gauges light came on after a long stretch at 65mph. So I am experimenting with a relay and resistors to just modify the temp signal slightly and maybe increase fan speed by say +25% instead of +50%. It is really loud at 50% or above. I may look at replacing my alternator with a higher amp version in the spring when I'll need the AC more consistently.

If anyone has any ideas on what to do to prevent it from pushing coolant out the overflow please share.
Has anyone replaced the overflow with a sealed radiator cap and expansion tank system?

 

[Steel City 06]

I'll add my experience to this also. Maybe someone can help me and maybe my experience can help others. Most of you know I did a Hemi swap and have fought overheating since. To recap I started with a CG&J Hemi swap down flow style radiator, Flex-a-lite black magic electric fan, 195 thermostat, stock replacement Melling brand water pump, 16lb radiator cap. Idling and driving on backroads it was fine but if I got to highway speed it would overheat and boil coolant out within a few miles. I swapped to a mechanical fan of several varieties (Explorer fan with HD and Severe duty clutches, Stock 5 blade fan with stock and severe duty clutches, and a WJ 11 blade fan with HD and severe duty clutches). the WJ fan and severe duty clutch seemed to be the best option as it would mostly keep temps under control on the highway until summer time got here and outside temps were 90+ then with the AC on it would still push 220+ at sustained highway speeds. And at idle, traffic, or trail speeds it would overheat. Even in a drive through. I tried multiple radiator caps of 16, 18, 24, and 32lb. I replaced my water pump with a flowcooler brand pump. I bought the kit to check for combustion gasses in the coolant and it does not show any signs of a head gasket leak or crack. I went through multiple thermostats including a Mopar 203, I settled on a 180 with a 5/16 hole drilled at the top of the flange after 3 different ones stuck closed on me. I finally broke down and purchased a crossflow style radiator from Engineered Cooling Products and the 850w Camaro fan. I am using the Widgetman PWM controller. I used Jeep Speed Shop fan spider and modified it to fit my radiator shroud. I had to replace my OE overflow bottle with a smaller aftermarket unit. With my current combination in this cooler weather I can easily control my operating temps in all driving conditions I have subjected it to. I still have a couple problems though.

#1 Even with a 32lb cap and engine temps well below 200 my radiator still pushes coolant out of the overflow bottle. I can start with a cold engine and coolant 4+ inches down in the radiator below the top and the overflow bottle empty. Within 40 miles, I will have coolant on my fender, hood, and windshield. It will eventually overheat when the coolant is gone!

#2 With the AC override on and fan at +50% (which is more like 75-80% with engine at operating speed and fan already running) my alternator can't keep up. Especially at idle. It will dim my lights at idle, but even at highway speeds my check gauges light came on after a long stretch at 65mph. So I am experimenting with a relay and resistors to just modify the temp signal slightly and maybe increase fan speed by say +25% instead of +50%. It is really loud at 50% or above. I may look at replacing my alternator with a higher amp version in the spring when I'll need the AC more consistently.

If anyone has any ideas on what to do to prevent it from pushing coolant out the overflow please share.
Has anyone replaced the overflow with a sealed radiator cap and expansion tank system?

Is the radiator designed for a pressure relief cap? It sounds like to me that the radiator may be designed like more modern radiators, which put the pressure relief cap on the expansion tank. Thus that hose may be bypassing the pressure relief cap and merely venting the radiator directly to atmosphere through the coolant bottle.

Another thought: is your heater core working fine? If it is blocked or deadheaded (sometimes people incorrectly do that instead of bypassing), then that would mean there is nowhere for fluid to circulate through, and then the coolant would boil inside the block long before the thermostat would ever open. It also probably wouldn't show as overheating via the coolant temperature sensor because of the lack of recirculation flow.

 

[Steel City 06]

I'll add my experience to this also. Maybe someone can help me and maybe my experience can help others. Most of you know I did a Hemi swap and have fought overheating since. To recap I started with a CG&J Hemi swap down flow style radiator, Flex-a-lite black magic electric fan, 195 thermostat, stock replacement Melling brand water pump, 16lb radiator cap. Idling and driving on backroads it was fine but if I got to highway speed it would overheat and boil coolant out within a few miles. I swapped to a mechanical fan of several varieties (Explorer fan with HD and Severe duty clutches, Stock 5 blade fan with stock and severe duty clutches, and a WJ 11 blade fan with HD and severe duty clutches). the WJ fan and severe duty clutch seemed to be the best option as it would mostly keep temps under control on the highway until summer time got here and outside temps were 90+ then with the AC on it would still push 220+ at sustained highway speeds. And at idle, traffic, or trail speeds it would overheat. Even in a drive through. I tried multiple radiator caps of 16, 18, 24, and 32lb. I replaced my water pump with a flowcooler brand pump. I bought the kit to check for combustion gasses in the coolant and it does not show any signs of a head gasket leak or crack. I went through multiple thermostats including a Mopar 203, I settled on a 180 with a 5/16 hole drilled at the top of the flange after 3 different ones stuck closed on me. I finally broke down and purchased a crossflow style radiator from Engineered Cooling Products and the 850w Camaro fan. I am using the Widgetman PWM controller. I used Jeep Speed Shop fan spider and modified it to fit my radiator shroud. I had to replace my OE overflow bottle with a smaller aftermarket unit. With my current combination in this cooler weather I can easily control my operating temps in all driving conditions I have subjected it to. I still have a couple problems though.

#1 Even with a 32lb cap and engine temps well below 200 my radiator still pushes coolant out of the overflow bottle. I can start with a cold engine and coolant 4+ inches down in the radiator below the top and the overflow bottle empty. Within 40 miles, I will have coolant on my fender, hood, and windshield. It will eventually overheat when the coolant is gone!

#2 With the AC override on and fan at +50% (which is more like 75-80% with engine at operating speed and fan already running) my alternator can't keep up. Especially at idle. It will dim my lights at idle, but even at highway speeds my check gauges light came on after a long stretch at 65mph. So I am experimenting with a relay and resistors to just modify the temp signal slightly and maybe increase fan speed by say +25% instead of +50%. It is really loud at 50% or above. I may look at replacing my alternator with a higher amp version in the spring when I'll need the AC more consistently.

If anyone has any ideas on what to do to prevent it from pushing coolant out the overflow please share.
Has anyone replaced the overflow with a sealed radiator cap and expansion tank system?

Also, for the alternator, look into a higher amperage unit. I'm sure there has to be a multitude of options for the Hemi. Most users here use the Durango alternator on the 4.0, which puts out ~160 amps or so at mid-RPM. That probably won't fit your Hemi, but something OEM in that amperage range should work fine. They do make aftermarket alternators up to 370 amps for almost any engine but those are overkill unless you're trying to run a winch at max speed.

 

[AjordanH]

The radiator is designed for a pressure relief type cap.
My heater core is functioning and works well. I hope I don’t have to replace it anytime soon since the oem is discontinued.
The Camaro with this fan is designed for uses a 220 amp alternator. My Hemi has a 136 amp lol. I will probably look into the Mechman alternators as they offer one in the 240-250 amp range I think.
I really just wish I could stop it from pushing coolant out the overflow. It will pull some of the coolant back into the radiator when it cools but not all of it. Also even after sitting overnight or multiple days I can open the radiator cap and still have pressure in it. Even with multiple different pressure radiator caps.

 

[GoldenGorilla]

I really just wish I could stop it from pushing coolant out the overflow. It will pull some of the coolant back into the radiator when it cools but not all of it. Also even after sitting overnight or multiple days I can open the radiator cap and still have pressure in it. Even with multiple different pressure radiator caps.

I changed the radiator and thermostat in a '10 Camaro SS for a friend a while back. Those Camaro LS3s are known to be a bit problematic with air pockets getting caught in the head and a little time later he was having issues with the car spiking into overheating while driving around, and then clearing.

I replaced the thermostat with a new new ACDelco for him and topped off coolant. Then used a radiator filler funnel with the front of the car up on ramps. We left the funnel in half full while letting it idle up to 195 and then just let those bubbles slowly clear out of the system. Once we had gone several minutes without seeing any more, shut it down and let it cool back down with the funnel in place. Problem free since.

 

[srimes]

I'll add my experience to this also. Maybe someone can help me and maybe my experience can help others. Most of you know I did a Hemi swap and have fought overheating since. To recap I started with a CG&J Hemi swap down flow style radiator, Flex-a-lite black magic electric fan, 195 thermostat, stock replacement Melling brand water pump, 16lb radiator cap. Idling and driving on backroads it was fine but if I got to highway speed it would overheat and boil coolant out within a few miles. I swapped to a mechanical fan of several varieties (Explorer fan with HD and Severe duty clutches, Stock 5 blade fan with stock and severe duty clutches, and a WJ 11 blade fan with HD and severe duty clutches). the WJ fan and severe duty clutch seemed to be the best option as it would mostly keep temps under control on the highway until summer time got here and outside temps were 90+ then with the AC on it would still push 220+ at sustained highway speeds. And at idle, traffic, or trail speeds it would overheat. Even in a drive through. I tried multiple radiator caps of 16, 18, 24, and 32lb. I replaced my water pump with a flowcooler brand pump. I bought the kit to check for combustion gasses in the coolant and it does not show any signs of a head gasket leak or crack. I went through multiple thermostats including a Mopar 203, I settled on a 180 with a 5/16 hole drilled at the top of the flange after 3 different ones stuck closed on me. I finally broke down and purchased a crossflow style radiator from Engineered Cooling Products and the 850w Camaro fan. I am using the Widgetman PWM controller. I used Jeep Speed Shop fan spider and modified it to fit my radiator shroud. I had to replace my OE overflow bottle with a smaller aftermarket unit. With my current combination in this cooler weather I can easily control my operating temps in all driving conditions I have subjected it to. I still have a couple problems though.

#1 Even with a 32lb cap and engine temps well below 200 my radiator still pushes coolant out of the overflow bottle. I can start with a cold engine and coolant 4+ inches down in the radiator below the top and the overflow bottle empty. Within 40 miles, I will have coolant on my fender, hood, and windshield. It will eventually overheat when the coolant is gone!

#2 With the AC override on and fan at +50% (which is more like 75-80% with engine at operating speed and fan already running) my alternator can't keep up. Especially at idle. It will dim my lights at idle, but even at highway speeds my check gauges light came on after a long stretch at 65mph. So I am experimenting with a relay and resistors to just modify the temp signal slightly and maybe increase fan speed by say +25% instead of +50%. It is really loud at 50% or above. I may look at replacing my alternator with a higher amp version in the spring when I'll need the AC more consistently.

If anyone has any ideas on what to do to prevent it from pushing coolant out the overflow please share.
Has anyone replaced the overflow with a sealed radiator cap and expansion tank system?

#1 sounds like a combustion pressure is leaking into the coolant system. Usually it's from a head gasket leak, sometimes from a cracked head. You can do a chemical check for exhaust gasses in the coolant.

Are you sure there's no air trapped in the system? If the radiator cap isn't the highest point it can be a trick to burp the system.

I'd focus on #1 first, as #2 might not be an issue once you figure out #1.

 

[Wildman]

The radiator is designed for a pressure relief type cap.
My heater core is functioning and works well. I hope I don’t have to replace it anytime soon since the oem is discontinued.
The Camaro with this fan is designed for uses a 220 amp alternator. My Hemi has a 136 amp lol. I will probably look into the Mechman alternators as they offer one in the 240-250 amp range I think.
I really just wish I could stop it from pushing coolant out the overflow. It will pull some of the coolant back into the radiator when it cools but not all of it. Also even after sitting overnight or multiple days I can open the radiator cap and still have pressure in it. Even with multiple different pressure radiator caps.

Man I'd hopped you had gotten this figured out. I don't have any great ideas or suggestion past what everyone else has suggested. Just hope you can get it figured out.

 

[AjordanH]

That’s interesting. I do use one of those funnels and have got some air bubbles out but I’ve never turned the engine off and allowed it to cool with the funnel still in place.

 

[AjordanH]

#1 sounds like a combustion pressure is leaking into the coolant system. Usually it's from a head gasket leak, sometimes from a cracked head. You can do a chemical check for exhaust gasses in the coolant.

Are you sure there's no air trapped in the system? If the radiator cap isn't the highest point it can be a trick to burp the system.

I'd focus on #1 first, as #2 might not be an issue once you figure out #1.

I do have the chemical test for combustion gasses in the coolant. It has no sign at all of combustion gasses leaking.

 

[Jezza]

Well, add me to the list of happy customers.

I tried a few combinations of PCM controlling the fan I am still optimistic that its possible, but at $50 a credit and needing at least 2 credits...... I'm taking a pause perusing that right now. Because I am a cheap bastard, I wound up using the Widget man PWM Fan controller, I purchased it through Ebay, but you can save a buck purchasing direct from him. Add this with a T-tap of your choosing to the positive line of your ECT sensor (like an orange or yellowish color if I remember correctly) and set the dip switches as following:

1:Hi, 2:Hi, 3:Lo, 4:Lo, 5:Lo, 6:Hi, 7:Lo.

This sets the correct fan polarity, sensor settings and puts the A/C or Switch override to +50% instead of MAX which given the power of this fan feels most fitting.

For the instillation I followed the trimming outlined in The_Walrus's post above I then use 5/16th bolts and nuts with 2 washers between the GM shroud and the Jeep shroud for spacing. I originally pushed the fan to far forward (close to the radiator) and the fan-blades were warping forwards and contacting the Jeep shroud when the fan hit 50%+ RPM. (see below photos)

View attachment 661140
View attachment 661141
^ here you can see the markings on the case for + and - Fan leads from the video linked earlier in this thread.

View attachment 661142
^ I used Red Loc-tite to help ensure the bolts don't back out with the vibrations. ABS Locker nuts are to large to fit in the captive space.

View attachment 661143
View attachment 661144
^ Heres where the fan was contacting. note you need MORE spacing than seen above.

Here are some pictures of the working install. I just used adhesive tape to mount the fan controller. I imagine i will have to update that to a wrap-around zip-tie or bolt of some part as heat becomes a factor. I used High-Amp Power pole connectors and 8Ga wire , if I did it again, I would use the Female OEM GM Connector for a cleaner install, but I wasn't able to find it in-time.

View attachment 661146
^ NOTE! you will need to seal these dip switches with RTV or Di-electric to make the controller water-proof. I haven't done that at the time of this photo.

View attachment 661147
View attachment 661148

I set the low trip point at 180*, and the high trip point at 220* - this seems to keep the fan relatively quiet while keeping the jeep at 190* give or take in what is currently 40* weather. I may adjust these as summer comes around, but for now they seem to allow the jeep to warm up and maintain closed-loop op temp with plenty of headroom for cooling. I am concerned I may be over-cooling, but without a Rad. Temp sensor it's hard to tell. either way, I would rather over cool than over heat.

I have noticed a 1-2MPG increase across the board city and hwy (measured at the pump) , and I can now get 17.5MPG on the HWY (per my ultra-gauge)! (previously the best i could manage was about 14.5-15)
View attachment 661149

I have also noticed substantially reduced warm-up times with the fan not cooling until 180*. The jeep rev's much faster contributing to a more "sporty" driving experience and makes life better if you like downshifting. I wouldn't say theres more power - but she feels more on edge and "perky". The interior is notably quieter. I can hear the fan when it’s running in over-ríe (call it 50%+) but even then it’s still quieter than the stock fan was. I may look into isolating the aground mount to help even more with noise transfer.

All in all this fan moves a TON of air, my finely calibrated hairline estimates 100% on the E-fan is about the same as 1200-1500 RPM on the mechanical fan. I am excited to see how the E-fan holds up in the summer, in combination with @Jezza's water-pump/ fan overdrive pulley hopefully I can keep this poor jeep below *220 idling with the A/C on in the summer.

What do ya think you got into that setup, if you don't mind me asking?

 

[Lanzg]

What do ya think you got into that setup, if you don't mind me asking?

I'm setting up to do one, got all the parts this week, I like having everything sitting in front of me a bit before I beach something.

233.00 Fan (RA)
63.00 Plug/Wiring Spal
25.00 150A Marine Fuse
22.50 150A Marine Relay
69.99 Widget Man Controller
15.00 Misc Terminals Heat Shrink What Ever

428.49

This Jeep was wrecked in the front and needs everything anyway, figured I'd do an experiment. It will also be getting a V-8 eventually and I'll be interested to see if this plus a little more performance based radiator will keep things cool. We have this fan in a few JKs with very hot motors and they work great.

LG

 

[KingCarGuyZ]

What do ya think you got into that setup, if you don't mind me asking?

I would say less than $500 - fan was $350 to my door (Rock Auto) another $20 in connectors, Controller was $70 all said and done. I work for an up-fitter so wire off-cuts just kinda appear everywhere, but you could but a spool off amazon for less than $20.