Cooling fan upgrade comparison: Explorer 11-blade fan and HD clutch versus SPAL 19" 850-watt electric brushless fan

[Wildman]

In fairness it makes a lot more sense to me to try removing that winch than it does removing the condenser that isn’t “on” and hot.

I would agree if it'd been hot all the time but it just started so IMO there's got to be something else wrong at this point. I could be wrong but that is my thought process.

 

[Wildman]

Grabbed this off that iPirate thread you'd linked... Looks about 22.5" X 20.5"

This is the MoPar 850 watt version. https://www.moparpartsgiant.com/parts/mopar-radiator-cooling~68272755ad.html

I'm on page 12 & they're still arguing with the guy from Delta PAG

 

[lBasket]

Grabbed this off that iPirate thread you'd linked... Looks about 22.5" X 20.5"

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I'm on page 12 & they're still arguing with the guy from Delta PAG

Irate4x4 forsure

 

[Wildman]

Irate4x4 forsure

I make fun of their name... iPirate is my way of poking fun at them.

 

[Wildman]

Again grabbed this off the thread...

The Spal sensor (which you are not using) outputs a PWM or resistance signal to the fan, sorry I should know this but cant remember, the fan can read either one. (Doesn't matter in your case.)
You are going to send the PWM through the white wire, which is the (smart wire).

IF YOU ARE RUNNIG DIRECT WITHOUT PWM OR VARIABLE RESISTANCE AKA POTENTIOMETER.
The sensor white goes to ground.
The yellow switched goes to power.
You need both connected to run the brushless direct.
The reasoning is that you would run the white wire on a old style temp switch that contacts to ground. The yellow is switched on and off. Otherwise the fan would run when the power is turned off or there would be no temp switch to turn it off or on.

SPAL Temperature Sensor wiring

And SPAL fan wiring again....

 

[Wildman]

They've listed this PWM as an option for the SPAL fans also...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1435616467...pid=5337789113&customid=&toolid=10001&mkevt=1

 

[AjordanH]

@Wildman are you planning on trying to adapt the Mopar 850w fan to your TJ radiator? I’m extremely interested in this or the Camaro fan. You might remember my overheating issues we discussed on the daubies hemi swap thread. I am still struggling with my hemi overheating. I had the explorer 11 blade fan and clutch on it and absolutely hated the noise from it. It also still overheated at idle or low speed and ran 220+ at 70mph. I currently have the Chrysler 11 blade fan (Dorman 620-082) and clutch which is significantly quieter but same temperature though. I can run topless with no air conditioning and run in the 205-210 range on the highway but when I stop and idle (like a drive through) or low speed off road it will overheat at 235-250+. If I run the AC then it will run 215-225 on the highway. I was able to run most of the winter and spring with little to no issues but in the summer heat (and I feel the humidity has a noticeable impact on the operating temperature of my engine) my cooling system can’t keep up. As an experiment I tried starting my Jeep at home and getting it up to 200 and then opening the hood. With the AC on full blast it idled for over 30 mins and only got to 226 degrees. So I reluctantly cut up my hood to install Genright louvers. Still over 235 in a drive through for less than 5 mins the next week. My next attempt is a Flowcooler water pump. I’ll update when I get it changed but the temps are cooling off a little some my results might not be relative until next summer if I don’t get it done within the next week or so

 

[Wildman]

@Wildman are you planning on trying to adapt the Mopar 850w fan to your TJ radiator? I’m extremely interested in this or the Camaro fan. You might remember my overheating issues we discussed on the daubies hemi swap thread. I am still struggling with my hemi overheating. I had the explorer 11 blade fan and clutch on it and absolutely hated the noise from it. It also still overheated at idle or low speed and ran 220+ at 70mph. I currently have the Chrysler 11 blade fan (Dorman 620-082) and clutch which is significantly quieter but same temperature though. I can run topless with no air conditioning and run in the 205-210 range on the highway but when I stop and idle (like a drive through) or low speed off road it will overheat at 235-250+. If I run the AC then it will run 215-225 on the highway. I was able to run most of the winter and spring with little to no issues but in the summer heat (and I feel the humidity has a noticeable impact on the operating temperature of my engine) my cooling system can’t keep up. As an experiment I tried starting my Jeep at home and getting it up to 200 and then opening the hood. With the AC on full blast it idled for over 30 mins and only got to 226 degrees. So I reluctantly cut up my hood to install Genright louvers. Still over 235 in a drive through for less than 5 mins the next week. My next attempt is a Flowcooler water pump. I’ll update when I get it changed but the temps are cooling off a little some my results might not be relative until next summer if I don’t get it done within the next week or so

At this point I'm waiting for my leg to heal enough that I can work on the Jeep but I'm guessing that won't be until this weekend. My diagnostic steps are going to be:

1) Remove thermostat and refill with coolant then take it for a test drive and see what happens. As Jeff found with his rig without the thermostat he was running around 200-205* so as he'd said his fan wasn't enough to cool his engine properly.
If I don't overheat then that obviously points at a bad thermostat. I'll replace and then take for another test drive.

2) If I continue to overheat or run really warm with the 300 watt fan after testing the thermostat then I'll look at which fan I can get for cheaper.... If I can get the Camero fan cheaper I'll go that route or if I can get the 392 fan cheaper then I'll go that route. It does look like the shroud on the 392 fan is better/easier suited to fit onto our rigs than the Camero fan is?

3) I've looked at the FlowCooler water pump and honestly wished I'd just installed one before I'd done the engine swap. So I might look into installing one at some point.

 

[AjordanH]

How do you plan to seal the water outlet without a thermostat? The seal is made onto the thermostat itself.
Yeah that fan shroud looks closer but I figured it would be significantly wider than our radiators.
Yeah looked for the flowcooler water pump when I was building my engine but it didn’t exist or I just couldn’t find a listing for it almost 2 years ago.

 

[Wildman]

How do you plan to seal the water outlet without a thermostat? The seal is made onto the thermostat itself.

I've got a gasket for the housing that I'll try but yes I know it normally seals with the thermostat.

Yeah that fan shroud looks closer but I figured it would be significantly wider than our radiators.

I'm sure either the Camero or Jeep fan will require some trimming to fit...

Yeah looked for the flowcooler water pump when I was building my engine but it didn’t exist or I just couldn’t find a listing for it almost 2 years ago.

I had one on my Magnum engine but it was when I'd started having cooling issues so didn't really help so I can't comment as to if they really help or not.

 

[Wildman]

Here's a Camero fan on a YJ/TJ radiator.. This picture helps me envision how it might mount onto my radiator. It'll mean I'll have to pull the radiator but that isn't really much of an issue. I'm just not sure if I should just pull the trigger on one NOW or wait and see if I can make the SPAL 300 watt fan work first.
I do like the idea of having TOO MUCH cooling capacity as opposed to just barely enough like @Steel City 06 mentioned in his comment earlier.

My only concern then is the thickness/depth of the fan/shroud on the radiator to engine clearance.

 

[The_walrus]

This how it looks on my iPhone. I build an app for it. I’m reading all the data using two arduinos and one obd2 controller. With the Camaro fan also.

 

[SkylinesSuck]

Here's a Camero fan on a YJ/TJ radiator.. This picture helps me envision how it might mount onto my radiator. It'll mean I'll have to pull the radiator but that isn't really much of an issue. I'm just not sure if I should just pull the trigger on one NOW or wait and see if I can make the SPAL 300 watt fan work first.
I do like the idea of having TOO MUCH cooling capacity as opposed to just barely enough like @Steel City 06 mentioned in his comment earlier.

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My only concern then is the thickness/depth of the fan/shroud on the radiator to engine clearance.

Very interested in the thickness/depth measurements for that as well.

 

[Wildman]

Very interested in the thickness/depth measurements for that as well.

I guess I'll have to be the ginny pig engine swapped member and buy one...

 

[Steel City 06]

I guess I'll have to be the ginny pig engine swapped member and buy one...

I did measure the thickness early in the thread of the fan removed from the shroud. It was 68mm. I think the shroud probably added about 10mm of depth (total guess) of on the front, and has negligible additional depth on the backside. The backside is straight up flush with the fan motor connection protrusion.

 

[Wildman]

Here's a article on Brushless Fans. Haven't read the whole thing yet but the iPirate thread mentioned it...

https://www.240turbo.com/BrushlessFans.html

 

[Wildman]

I did measure the thickness early in the thread of the fan removed from the shroud. It was 68mm. I think the shroud probably added about 10mm of depth (total guess) of on the front, and has negligible additional depth on the backside. The backside is straight up flush with the fan motor connection protrusion.

Well I just ordered one off Rock Auto so once it gets here I'll be testing things out to see if I can make it fit. I do really appreciate you making this thread. Even though I've kind of derailed it a little.

 

[Steel City 06]

Here's a article on Brushless Fans. Haven't read the whole thing yet but the iPirate thread mentioned it...

https://www.240turbo.com/BrushlessFans.html

So that thread identifies the source of the 1 kW SPAL brushless fan... I searched far and wide and could never find that information. All the information I have on it is that it is exactly the same as the Camaro fan (excluding shroud) except that it is governed to a higher RPM and wattage limit.

Well I just ordered one off Rock Auto so once it gets here I'll be testing things out to see if I can make it fit. I do really appreciate you making this thread. Even though I've kind of derailed it a little.

This is exactly the point of this thread. Try it out, and post up whatever you learn in the process for the next person

 

[Wildman]

So that thread identifies the source of the 1 kW SPAL brushless fan... I searched far and wide and could never find that information. All the information I have on it is that it is exactly the same as the Camaro fan (excluding shroud) except that it is governed to a higher RPM and wattage limit.

I skimmed it a little bit and I guess it's a BMW fan? Sounds really cool and I'm sure it's pretty impressive too when turned on 100%. Also in that site he talks about a polarity converter that would allow the use of a SPAL temperature sensor. It's about $10 cheaper than the PWM controller from Widget Man that I'd posted earlier. He also offers the polarity converter too. I's already ordered the PWM controller so will just use it.

This is exactly the point of this thread. Try it out, and post up whatever you learn in the process for the next person

Thanks... And yes it should be the point of most threads here.

 

[Wildman]

Don't remember seeing this so here's the plug for the Camero or SPAL fan.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07CTDGNGT?tag=wranglerorg-20