Hello everyone. I just want to give you an update on the setup I have using the arduino. My temperatures reading are from 199 F to 205 f while driving below 50 miles per hour with AC on. Driving at 65 miles or more temp will be close to 210 F with ac on. The max amps reading I got so far is around 21 amps. @Steel City 06 any suggestions or any approach I should get now that I have a fully control of fan speed. I will attach a picture with the amps reading I had with different PWM signals.
Cooling fan upgrade comparison: Explorer 11-blade fan and HD clutch versus SPAL 19" 850-watt electric brushless fan
- Thread starter Steel City 06
- Start date
Suggestions as in control logic?
Personally I would base it off of an independent coolant outlet temperature sensor similar to what I did with the Lingenfelter. However, perhaps have it come on at min speed once the fuel pump or ASD relays have been active for more than 5 seconds.
Then set a ramp up curve, perhaps starting about 150°F and capping out at about 190-200°F for the coolant outlet sensor. Ideally, some hysteresis would be useful as well, but how much I am not sure. PID control with hysteresis could perhaps be even better, but tuning it would be a bear.
For more advanced control, you could add add features like:
- Higher min speed when AC request signal is active
- Ignore temp sensor and run min fan speed above 55 mph
- Change the curve sensitivity based on outdoor air temperature
- Proactive early ramp-in with a significant increase in engine load
Since I overheated the other day on my drive I've been looking at this. The dimensions that Steel posted in the PDF shows the depth @ 82mm and with the 300 watt fan I currently have it's 78.4mm deep so it's 0.141mm difference between them which works out to about 9.64th's of an inch... I think I've got that much room but will have to look.
The Camaro fan is $325 on RockAuto compared to $510 for the 500 watt fan from Wizard Cooling. Then it'd just be figuring out how to mount that Camaro fan onto my current shroud. And then if I'd need anything else to make the make it work on my setup.
I'm not ready to write-off the 300 watt fan just yet but If I continue to have overheating issues then I'll be looking at one.
Ive been eye'ing their aluminum Radiator for my jeep, and same with their 500W Shroud but then realized....its 500w unit not 800+ it looks to be a nice bit of kit too!
Before i get yelled at for wanting an aluminum rad. I think i found the "solution" to stop breaking my tanks on the plastic radiators. As to where Aluminum cracks on to where the tank meets the core cause i had that happen to me
And my "solution" was to use some big thick rubber washers from ace hardware so that when it flexes, the rubber washers act as a bushing so it'll flex on the bushing and not fully deflect compared to when the RAD. is bolted straight to the grill.....
This is how I mounted my Griffin radiator. Seems to be working well so far.
Has anyone peeped at this fan ?
Saw it on one of the corvette forums by a guy named "TRI-HARD" and he saw 3900 CFM at 26 amps
Doesn't look bad....im really interested on the longevity of this setup ! But if anything i'd trust the camaro fan alot more since i'd assume it needs to meet some sort of specs for it to go on a production vehicle !?
Heres the link to it:
https://deltapag.com/products/18-brushless-fan-kit?variant=32780849414206
Edit- That fan motor looks tiny.....worrying
Saw it on one of the corvette forums by a guy named "TRI-HARD" and he saw 3900 CFM at 26 amps
Doesn't look bad....im really interested on the longevity of this setup ! But if anything i'd trust the camaro fan alot more since i'd assume it needs to meet some sort of specs for it to go on a production vehicle !?
Heres the link to it:
https://deltapag.com/products/18-brushless-fan-kit?variant=32780849414206
Edit- That fan motor looks tiny.....worrying
Definitely wouldn't trust those specifications, at least in real-world applications. It might pull 3900 CFM in free air, but I almost guarantee it would be far worse (maybe a 75% or worse reduction in airflow) behind a condenser and a radiator.
Also, with how small the vanes are and the higher attack angle on them, I would suspect it wouldn't develop much in the way of static pressure anyways.
It's very easy to make an inefficient motor to bump up the power specifications. Hence why even the cheapest vacuum cleaners will advertise "12A power". They're using very inefficient universal motors instead of induction or ECM motors.
yeah you aren't wrong!
this video shows it peaking 4200+ CFM at a perfect voltage of 14.19 V at 27-28 amps through a radiator,but that'll change once you get a condenser,heat exchanger (if running boost)
ok im done)i'd like to try it out once im out of the hospital after my surgeries and get my money back up.....sorry if im rambling im medicated as hell right now with the medical stuff i got going on with me
Hi. I would like to take this approach. Can you tell me the steps you take in order to accomplish this project?
It's actually fairly simple.
First, fix any leaks or issues before starting. Since the hydrocarbon refrigerant is flammable, there is a small amount of increased risk associated with it. The risk is small but not zero. Mostly, the risk is that in a collision, the gas escaping from a damaged condenser could ignite. (There is also a tiny risk that gas escaping from a leaking evaporator could accumulate in the cabin and ignite explosively, but there have to be a very specific set of conditions for this to occur.)
For the existing R134a refrigerant charge, you'll need this removed. It is illegal to vent this to the atmosphere. However, most AC shops will discharge it for free since they get to recover and resell the refrigerant. In addition, you'll need to pull a vacuum on the system to purge any remaining refrigerant or air. Most AC shops will do this for a small fee.
Then it is as simple as adding 8 oz of R290/600a blend through the low pressure line. With the vacuum pulled on the line and the engine and AC off, simply invert the can and then squeeze the trigger and all of the liquid should get sucked into the system without ever having to use the compressor like you would for a refrigerant top off.
Here is the item I used:
https://www.duracool.com/shop/durac...acement-and-trigger-hose-assembly-attachment/
Comes with the hose and the exact amount of gas needed for the TJ.
This is great to hear
However Did you talk about an adjustable pressure switch for the high or Low side ?
I'm gonna do this next summer since the cold times are coming,Not too satisfied with the cooling with my Lj in this hot Texas heat we get!
This is great to hear
However Did you talk about an adjustable pressure switch for the high or Low side ?
I'm gonna do this next summer since the cold times are coming,Not too satisfied with the cooling with my Lj in this hot Texas heat we get!
Yes, I used an adjustable low pressure switch, in particular this one:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003R42YMS?tag=wranglerorg-20
Not mandatory but it might be possible to tune it slightly colder with an adjustable switch. I was able to get a few extra degrees out of it. Biggest caveat is to not adjust the pressure setpoint so low that ice accumulates on the evaporator.
Threads right on to the OEM line. Note you do not need to discharge the AC system to replace the switches.
OK, I just spent a week doing easy trails (Forest Service Roads) and hardtop roads with 3+ hours of driving @ 60+ MPH and had the Jeep overheat again.
I'd drove over to Montana for a week long trip that turned out not to be what I'd thought it'd be. On Tuesday we'd driven about 45-60 minutes when the Jeep got hot. So I'd pulled over to let it cool off & it was spitting coolant out of the overflow tank. Once it'd cooled off we took off again with the override switch turned on with the fan running at 100%. We drove another 60 minutes I'd guess on dirt roads before we'd hit the hardtop. Then stopped at Kootenai Falls so the Jeep had cooled off again. Then even with the override switch on I'd overheated again after driving about 45 minutes doing 60 MPH down Hwy 2. Pulled over and found out after a lot of looking that the plug on the relay had worked loose somehow. Was able to drive it 2 hours back to camp then.
Stayed in camp Wednesday and worked on the Jeep and found it about a 1/2 gallon low on coolant. I'd driven it 4 times for about 20 minutes each time trying to get it to overheat again. So Thursday drove into Kalispell which was about a 50 mile drive without any issues. Then back out of town to the Wild Bill trail and when we'd turned off Hwy 2 it was overheating again. I turned on the override switch and it was cooling back down when we pulled into the staging area. I decided to not try taking it on the trail that day just because I wasn't sure what was happening then. When we got done with the trail I could check the coolant level and it was full so there is something else happening to make it overheat other than losing coolant. Drove it back to camp with the override switch on and checked the coolant level again once it'd cooled off and it was full.
Then on Friday we'd drove down to a spot about 80 minutes away from camp on the river so people could soak & play in the river. I'd hooked up my scanner and was data logging and for the first 30 minutes it was running around 192-195* temp when it jumped up to 250* but then I turned on the override switch again and it'd cooled back off to 202* by the time we'd got to the river.
So at this point my plan is to pull the thermostat first and run it to see what the temperature sits at. That will help to determine if the 300 watt SPAL brushless fan is enough to cool the Hemi or not. If I find it isn't enough then I've got to decide if I want to buy the 500 watt SPAL fan or get the Camero fan. My only issue with the Camero fan is how or if I'll be able to trim it enough to fit onto my radiator. I've looked at the pictures of how those of you that have used the TJ shroud to mount the Camero fan but was wondering if you had any other pictures of what it looked like trimmed prior to mounting it?
Just trying to figure out if I need a larger fan which should I choose? The Camero fan would end up costing me more because I'd have to get the PWM also to control it since I'm using the SPAL temperature sensor currently.
Getting the fan & PWM from Summit would be $612 as opposed to getting the SPAL 500 watt fan from Wizard Cooling would be $510 and since Jeff isn't having cooling issues using the 500 watt fan it seems to be the better option if I need a larger fan.
Thanks guys.
I'd drove over to Montana for a week long trip that turned out not to be what I'd thought it'd be. On Tuesday we'd driven about 45-60 minutes when the Jeep got hot. So I'd pulled over to let it cool off & it was spitting coolant out of the overflow tank. Once it'd cooled off we took off again with the override switch turned on with the fan running at 100%. We drove another 60 minutes I'd guess on dirt roads before we'd hit the hardtop. Then stopped at Kootenai Falls so the Jeep had cooled off again. Then even with the override switch on I'd overheated again after driving about 45 minutes doing 60 MPH down Hwy 2. Pulled over and found out after a lot of looking that the plug on the relay had worked loose somehow. Was able to drive it 2 hours back to camp then.
Stayed in camp Wednesday and worked on the Jeep and found it about a 1/2 gallon low on coolant. I'd driven it 4 times for about 20 minutes each time trying to get it to overheat again. So Thursday drove into Kalispell which was about a 50 mile drive without any issues. Then back out of town to the Wild Bill trail and when we'd turned off Hwy 2 it was overheating again. I turned on the override switch and it was cooling back down when we pulled into the staging area. I decided to not try taking it on the trail that day just because I wasn't sure what was happening then. When we got done with the trail I could check the coolant level and it was full so there is something else happening to make it overheat other than losing coolant. Drove it back to camp with the override switch on and checked the coolant level again once it'd cooled off and it was full.
Then on Friday we'd drove down to a spot about 80 minutes away from camp on the river so people could soak & play in the river. I'd hooked up my scanner and was data logging and for the first 30 minutes it was running around 192-195* temp when it jumped up to 250* but then I turned on the override switch again and it'd cooled back off to 202* by the time we'd got to the river.
So at this point my plan is to pull the thermostat first and run it to see what the temperature sits at. That will help to determine if the 300 watt SPAL brushless fan is enough to cool the Hemi or not. If I find it isn't enough then I've got to decide if I want to buy the 500 watt SPAL fan or get the Camero fan. My only issue with the Camero fan is how or if I'll be able to trim it enough to fit onto my radiator. I've looked at the pictures of how those of you that have used the TJ shroud to mount the Camero fan but was wondering if you had any other pictures of what it looked like trimmed prior to mounting it?
Just trying to figure out if I need a larger fan which should I choose? The Camero fan would end up costing me more because I'd have to get the PWM also to control it since I'm using the SPAL temperature sensor currently.
Getting the fan & PWM from Summit would be $612 as opposed to getting the SPAL 500 watt fan from Wizard Cooling would be $510 and since Jeff isn't having cooling issues using the 500 watt fan it seems to be the better option if I need a larger fan.
Thanks guys.
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You shouldn't need any fan at all above 40 mph. When I put a new radiator in my S10 w/ a built 350 I drove it for a few weeks with no fan while I decided what I wanted to do. This was summertime in Arkansas. I'd get nervous watching the temp climb while waiting at stoplights, but never had a problem.
If you're overheating at 60 mph the fan isn't the issue.
I think pretty much all of the photos I have are in this thread. @MikeE024 and @The_walrus might also have some.
You can straight up unbolt the fan from the OEM shroud and print or rig up any custom mounting solution you want. I just found it easier to go to town with a jigsaw and a Dremel.
RockAuto also has a decent number of photos of it before it gets trimmed.
My advice on the fan is that if you are having that kind of problems with a 300-watt fan, you're still going to be borderline with the 500-watt. Better to buy something you know works, and maybe you can sell the SPAL sensor. Someone posted a cheaper controller than the Lingenfelter here somewhere that looked fairly good.
Also worth noting we care way more about the fan diameter rather than the fan wattage. Increasing fan wattage by a factor of X only gives a X^(1/3) increase in airflow. Meanwhile, increasing fan diameter by a factor of X (with zero change in wattage) increases airflow by X^(4/3). Add some additional wattage in there and you end up with a very large difference in airflow. The larger fan also provides a huge benefit by distributing the airflow more evenly across the entire radiator.
You can straight up unbolt the fan from the OEM shroud and print or rig up any custom mounting solution you want. I just found it easier to go to town with a jigsaw and a Dremel.
RockAuto also has a decent number of photos of it before it gets trimmed.
My advice on the fan is that if you are having that kind of problems with a 300-watt fan, you're still going to be borderline with the 500-watt. Better to buy something you know works, and maybe you can sell the SPAL sensor. Someone posted a cheaper controller than the Lingenfelter here somewhere that looked fairly good.
Also worth noting we care way more about the fan diameter rather than the fan wattage. Increasing fan wattage by a factor of X only gives a X^(1/3) increase in airflow. Meanwhile, increasing fan diameter by a factor of X (with zero change in wattage) increases airflow by X^(4/3). Add some additional wattage in there and you end up with a very large difference in airflow. The larger fan also provides a huge benefit by distributing the airflow more evenly across the entire radiator.
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I actually have experimented with shutting the fan off at 70+ mph just to see what happens. There is a fairly noticeable ~5° or more spike in coolant temperature, but I've never had it come near overheating.
I suspect the cause isn't the lack of airflow, but instead poor distribution of airflow. I have a winch, power steering cooler, and lights that all block airflow in parts of the radiator. I don't think it would be impossible for a car with no fan to overheat at highway speeds if airflow was really poorly distributed and conditions were right.
The distribution issue is one of the main reason most OEM shrouds have flaps.
The thread where I found out about the fan on Irate4x4 I think also has some photos, but you might need to dig:
https://irate4x4.com/threads/cooling-fan-tech.24669/
https://irate4x4.com/threads/cooling-fan-tech.24669/
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