Interview with former GM engineer on the general degeneration of the modern auto industry

[TJMexico]

These came across my BoobTube feed this morning. The first link is to a short review of the interview, the second to the actual interview with a man who was an engineer for GM and pretty much spills the tea on the current state of not only GM but the entire modern auto industry.

I know good maintenance is a must and newer vehicles suck, but this makes me realize that keeping older vehicles running well is even more critical at this point. The newest vehicle I have owned is my current pickup, a 2009 Ford Sport Trac. I have sworn that I will purchase nothing newer than this truck. I'm thinking that maybe getting rid of it and my buggy and buying a Cherokee XJ or an older pickup that I can work on might be a good idea. I remember when working on my vehicle was actually enjoyable.

I have a friend who has a bad case of JAS (Jeep Acquisition Syndrome). He has a two-door JL model, though he has been through a few older models, including TJs. He warned me away from anything after the TJ.

• Short video with a review of the long-form interview.
• 1.25 hour interview with former GM engineer.

There is nothing revelatory in the interview for anybody who has been paying attention over the last couple of decades, but it is interesting. I recommend it if you have an hour and a half to kill while driving or something.

 

[Chris]

@Zorba will like this thread

He's not wrong to warn you away from anything after the TJ. Cars these days drive great but they're nightmares to work on and maintain.

 

[RangerTJ]

Been there, done that with a brand new JK.

MUCH happier with my TJ.

 

[TJMexico]

@Zorba will like this thread

He's not wrong to warn you away from anything after the TJ. Cars these days drive great but they're nightmares to work on and maintain.

Seems to me that anything after the TJ is pretty much just an Acadia or an Explorer with a boxy body.

My 2009 Ford has served me well up to now with no complaints, but it is just on the edge of being too "modern." I wish my TJ was naturally aspirated, but the TBI will do, I guess. Don't want to go back to full EFI.

One of the things that the interviewee pointed out is that every-damned-thing - windows, wipers, door locks, etc. - is no longer just electric but electronic. It all runs through modules and processors.

I saw a video awhile back from a mechanic with a YouTube channel. He had a Ram come in that would run 33 miles then shut off, sit awhile and then run another 33 miles and shut off. It had been through the agency and multiple mechanics and nobody could find the problem. This guy located it. There was a short in the wires going to the passenger side tail light. That short in the tail light had burned out a module. Total cost with this mechanic for labor and parts exceeded $5,000! That does not include that the owner had spent at the dealership and other mechanics.

For a shorted tail light.

As the interviewee points out, this is all on purpose.

 

[Apparition]

Seems to me that anything after the TJ is pretty much just an Acadia or an Explorer with a boxy body.

My 2009 Ford has served me well up to now with no complaints, but it is just on the edge of being too "modern." I wish my TJ was naturally aspirated, but the TBI will do, I guess. Don't want to go back to full EFI.

One of the things that the interviewee pointed out is that every-damned-thing - windows, wipers, door locks, etc. - is no longer just electric but electronic. It all runs through modules and processors.

I saw a video awhile back from a mechanic with a YouTube channel. He had a Ram come in that would run 33 miles then shut off, sit awhile and then run another 33 miles and shut off. It had been through the agency and multiple mechanics and nobody could find the problem. This guy located it. There was a short in the wires going to the passenger side tail light. That short in the tail light had burned out a module. Total cost with this mechanic for labor and parts exceeded $5,000! That does not include that the owner had spent at the dealership and other mechanics.

For a shorted tail light.

As the interviewee points out, this is all on purpose.

Surprised a scanner wasn’t pointing out a failed module.

 

[Chris]

Seems to me that anything after the TJ is pretty much just an Acadia or an Explorer with a boxy body.

My 2009 Ford has served me well up to now with no complaints, but it is just on the edge of being too "modern." I wish my TJ was naturally aspirated, but the TBI will do, I guess. Don't want to go back to full EFI.

One of the things that the interviewee pointed out is that every-damned-thing - windows, wipers, door locks, etc. - is no longer just electric but electronic. It all runs through modules and processors.

I saw a video awhile back from a mechanic with a YouTube channel. He had a Ram come in that would run 33 miles then shut off, sit awhile and then run another 33 miles and shut off. It had been through the agency and multiple mechanics and nobody could find the problem. This guy located it. There was a short in the wires going to the passenger side tail light. That short in the tail light had burned out a module. Total cost with this mechanic for labor and parts exceeded $5,000! That does not include that the owner had spent at the dealership and other mechanics.

For a shorted tail light.

As the interviewee points out, this is all on purpose.

Yep, gone are the days where one could fix their own vehicle themselves. More often that's becoming less possible with as many electronics as they're putting in modern cars. Planned obsolescence is what it's called.

It isn't just cars either, it's appliances and all forms of electronics.

 

[Dylan_See_TJ]

Yep, gone are the days where one could fix their own vehicle themselves. More often that's becoming less possible with as many electronics as they're putting in modern cars. Planned obsolescence is what it's called.

It isn't just cars either, it's appliances and all forms of electronics.

Seems like everything is designed to be broken once and thrown away now. Nothing is built to be serviceable and nobody bothers learning how to even try to fix things. I don't know how it doesn't drive people nuts being totally helpless if their car won't start or their toilet won't flush, let alone that every engine bay is buried under eight feet of plastic and the solution for most electronics breaking is "buy a new one".

 

[CreepinDeth]

Fwiw I was life loyal to GM til the bailouts and bankruptcies and I swore NEW GM would never see another dime from me. I bought my first new Ford F150 in 2013

Thise of you that wanna proclaim Ford did also dont understand the differences, so I wont atttempt to argue

Cheap Govt secured loans have been available to businesses in good standing for generations.

A bailout is not the same

 

[TJMexico]

Yep, gone are the days where one could fix their own vehicle themselves. More often that's becoming less possible with as many electronics as they're putting in modern cars. Planned obsolescence is what it's called.

It isn't just cars either, it's appliances and all forms of electronics.

That's exactly what the interviewee said. He worked for years as an engineer (automatic transmission sector) at GM. He figures vehicles are designed to essentially self-destruct at about 100,000 miles. They know that some elements may fail just over half-way through the warranty period, so it's cheaper to roll the dice and fix those that fail since the replacement will outlast the warranty. That's more cost-effective to the corporation than just putting in quality parts.

He also said that the maintenance schedules are bovine feces. Generally, if one follows more traditional schedules, the vehicles last much longer. They intentionally tell people to under-maintain so that the vehicle will self-destruct and a new will will have to be purchased to replace it.

 

[TJMexico]

Deleted, I will listen to 100% first

Fwiw I was life loyal to GM til the bailouts and bankruptcies and I swore NEW GM would never see another dime from me

Worth it! As I said in my OP, as he worked for GM he had much to say about what was happening in the company, but it all applies to the industry in general and at large.

My old mule, now ... He don't break down much, and when he does, it's generally easy to figure out what's wrong and what to do about it.

 

[Zorba]

He also said that pre-2005 (ish) vehicles - what I call "pre-iPhone" - are going to skyrocket in price. I've been talking about this for several years now, they already are going up in price - sharply and rapidly.

More fall-out from the smartphone.

 

[DuckNut]

He also said that pre-2005 (ish) vehicles - what I call "pre-iPhone" - are going to skyrocket in price. I've been talking about this for several years now, they already are going up in price - sharply and rapidly.

More fall-out from the smartphone.

Stacking up old body style Ford trucks.

 

[RangerTJ]

Stacking up old body style Ford trucks.

Definitely hanging on to my moldy oldie.

 

[ColoJeep]

Seems to me that anything after the TJ is pretty much just an Acadia or an Explorer with a boxy body.

My 2009 Ford has served me well up to now with no complaints, but it is just on the edge of being too "modern." I wish my TJ was naturally aspirated, but the TBI will do, I guess. Don't want to go back to full EFI.

One of the things that the interviewee pointed out is that every-damned-thing - windows, wipers, door locks, etc. - is no longer just electric but electronic. It all runs through modules and processors.

I saw a video awhile back from a mechanic with a YouTube channel. He had a Ram come in that would run 33 miles then shut off, sit awhile and then run another 33 miles and shut off. It had been through the agency and multiple mechanics and nobody could find the problem. This guy located it. There was a short in the wires going to the passenger side tail light. That short in the tail light had burned out a module. Total cost with this mechanic for labor and parts exceeded $5,000! That does not include that the owner had spent at the dealership and other mechanics.

For a shorted tail light.

As the interviewee points out, this is all on purpose.

Body control module are cheap and easy for the manufacture , and a night mare for the owner. At my former employer I have seen a headlight burn out on a 2010-2015 Ram truck , it was replaced and still no power to the bulb . The module turned off the circuit since the power draw wasn't there when the bulb burned out. They had to buy a special scan tool to re-enable the module. the scan tool was just under $4000.00 . All for a burnt out head light.

 

[ColoJeep]

@Zorba will like this thread

He's not wrong to warn you away from anything after the TJ. Cars these days drive great but they're nightmares to work on and maintain.

Chris , what is your experience been with late model stuff ? I know you have an Eco-boost and had a LM Mustang. I believe that there is a line of demarcation on electronics , some really good reliable and easy to repair , ( Think Big cap HEI distributors or GM 10-SI voltage regulators ) . Then there is the rabbit hole that exists today , ( electric power steering , VVT , Canbus , multiplex , multiple body control modules ) . It's difficult to define the difference , but we've seen it .

 

[RangerTJ]

...

One of the things that the interviewee pointed out is that every-damned-thing - windows, wipers, door locks, etc. - is no longer just electric but electronic. It all runs through modules and processors.

...

Speaking of everything running through modules now, big recall on the Mustang Mach E that requires replacement of the PCM to fix a door lock.

Ford Recall

To address the issue, Ford will replace the powertrain control module on the affected vehicles. This component is responsible for managing various aspects of the vehicle’s electrical system, including the door lock functionality. By replacing the module, the company aims to eliminate the software glitch that causes the door lock malfunction.

 

[Chris]

Chris , what is your experience been with late model stuff ? I know you have an Eco-boost and had a LM Mustang. I believe that there is a line of demarcation on electronics , some really good reliable and easy to repair , ( Think Big cap HEI distributors or GM 10-SI voltage regulators ) . Then there is the rabbit hole that exists today , ( electric power steering , VVT , Canbus , multiplex , multiple body control modules ) . It's difficult to define the difference , but we've seen it .

I haven't had any issues with my F150 so I can't really speak to this. I will say that I love my F150. It's a very fun truck to drive and it doesn't seem like it's loaded with electronics, but I'm probably wrong about that. I guess the good news is that being as though it's an F150, parts will never be hard to come by. If you see the production numbers on the F150 (America's number one selling truck if I recall) then it makes sense.

I get in a vehicle like a BMW, Audi, etc., however, and it immediately becomes obvious that those things are loaded to the gills with electronics and they're going to be expensive as hell to maintain. Hell, my 2001 BMW M5 I had back in the day was a 2001 and even that thing was an electronic nightmare. Every single issue I had with it was related to electronic sensors and what have you.

My F150 seems simple by comparison, but according to Google it's got 70 different "modules" that talk to each other. That scares me!

 

[RangerTJ]

Audi turn signal stalk.

 

[ColoJeep]

Audi turn signal stalk.

View attachment 626510

Makes typical Audi / German sense , It can only be done this way . They just can't get past the Cou koo clock mindset .

 

[TJMexico]

Body control module are cheap and easy for the manufacture , and a night mare for the owner. At my former employer I have seen a headlight burn out on a 2010-2015 Ram truck , it was replaced and still no power to the bulb . The module turned of the circuit since the power draw wasn't there when the bulb burned out. They had to buy a special scan tool to re-enable the module. the scan tool was just under $4000.00 . All for a burnt out head light.

Hey, somebody made a buck off of it. That's what matters, right?