RC / Barnes double shear track bar?

[g.hayduke]

I kept asking the guy claiming to get 6” up 6” down to show he’s fully using the 6” upward travel and tell us how much bump stop he has set and he would not.

If you want a step-by-step how-to, this might help you out:

 

[Dylpickle200]

Why are you posting pictures of other people's rigs instead of your own?

Because I’m at work and that was a good example to help try and convey what I was saying…

 

[Dylpickle200]

The problem with you folk who don't know what they don't know is you tend to argue with those that do. For the sake of this discussion should it ever come up again, I did a little test for you to show you how full of shit most folks really are.
Rubi 44 front that I adjusted to 3" of bumpstop just for you. JJ front trackbar. This is maxed at full stuff with the axle centered.
View attachment 629488

Camera angle doesn't show the full number but it is 6 1/2" higher it is able to go, subtract 3" of bumpstop and you have another 3 1/2" of up left. If it isn't clear, I jacked it up to a hard full stuff, compressed the bumpstops down to 3", removed the trackbar, and then moved it up until it bound. You'll never get it that high, ever.

View attachment 629489

Okay now do it with a jks because for the 100th time I don’t have a Currie track bar

 

[mrblaine]

Okay now do it with a jks because for the 100th time I don’t have a Currie track bar

Too bad for you I bought the very last one in existence.

 

[g.hayduke]

Okay now do it with a jks because for the 100th time I don’t have a Currie track bar

Wouldn't a Currie track bar be a simple, clean solution to your problem?

Or is there another reason to do what you're suggesting that's unrelated to solving your actual problem?

 

[Woodrow]

I think you misread my post. I said 35’s on the XJ30’s JKs and JLs can survive bigger. Ive seen enough carnage personally and know people way smarter than me in the industry that have confirmed my bias. I am of course assuming he has an XJHP30 because his avatar doesnt look like a 65wms+.

In my experience the older HP30s fail on the outer ends mostly. Ujoint, bent C, broken balljoints and failed unit bearing. Adding a hydro (again I know people make it work) just doesnt sit well with me. YMMV.

Ps love your thoughts and insights man.

I misinterpreted the post about max tire size on an XJ HP30 as well. Now that that is cleared up, I have a question and a comment:

For context, I have a locked XJ HP30 on 35s with 30 spline RCVs , spicer ball joints and Timken unit bearings.

Question: I really would like the help of hydro assist steering. What exactly is your concern with it?

Comment: I would like to stretch the front forward a 2-3 inches and will need to move the frame side track bar mount. I'm considering a double shear bracket with a heim and possibly a cross brace instead of another factory style single shear for strength. Increased range of motion is another perceived advantage but not a current problem with 9" of shock travel (although it seems like a possible issue with 11-12" shocks when I mid-arm). I'm aware @mrblaine has found the stock style bracket to be sufficient and Josh reports no issues with his set up.

 

[g.hayduke]

Okay now do it with a jks because for the 100th time I don’t have a Currie track bar

I used to run a JKS track bar. After the 3rd heim failed in a very short time, I bought a Currie. Besides being more durable, it apparently supports greater articulation.

The Currie also provides better diff cover clearance.

These reasons and more are why it's a favorite front track bar for many on the forum.

Your solution seems like a lot of work to compensate for a subpar track bar. I think that just doesn't make sense to a lot of people who have better suspension flex than you without resorting to nonstock track bar mounts or bump stops that limit shock travel.

 

[NashvilleTJ]

I used to run a JKS track bar. After the 3rd heim failed in a very short time, I bought a Currie. Besides being more durable, it apparently supports greater articulation.

The Currie also provides better diff cover clearance.

These reasons and more are why it's a favorite front track bar for many on the forum.

Your solution seems like a lot of work to compensate for a subpar track bar. I think that just doesn't make sense to a lot of people who have better suspension flex than you without resorting to nonstock track bar mounts or bump stops that limit shock travel.

...and cutting off the stock frame-side track bar mount is not for the faint of heart.

I run a frame side, double sheer track bar mount with a Heim joint - and for some reason I am now embarrassed by this...

 

[Dylpickle200]

Too bad for you I bought the very last one in existence.

No sense in spending 500$ on a track bar when I’m going to axle swap and do a double shear in a couple months anyway.. that was the whole point of my post again. I’m not going to stay with a single shear I just wanted advice on the better frame side bracket

 

[Dylpickle200]

Wouldn't a Currie track bar be a simple, clean solution to your problem?

Or is there another reason to do what you're suggesting that's unrelated to solving your actual problem?

Both could possibly be true according to what Mr Blaine showed with the Currie track bar. I don’t have one I have a jks. I’m going to do an axle swap and fabricate my own steering and track bar set up when I do and I plan to go double shear so I will need the frame side bracket cut off anyway. So to me it would be a waste in my eyes to buy a 500$ track bar and have to do all the work later anyway when I can buy a sub 200$ track bar and do the work of cutting off the bracket and welding on a double shear mount now

 

[Dylpickle200]

I used to run a JKS track bar. After the 3rd heim failed in a very short time, I bought a Currie. Besides being more durable, it apparently supports greater articulation.

The Currie also provides better diff cover clearance.

These reasons and more are why it's a favorite front track bar for many on the forum.

Your solution seems like a lot of work to compensate for a subpar track bar. I think that just doesn't make sense to a lot of people who have better suspension flex than you without resorting to nonstock track bar mounts or bump stops that limit shock travel.

My whole reasoning in skipping the Currie track bar and going straight to double shear is over my plans to axle swap in the future as highlighted earlier in this post. I’m going to have to do the work anyway why not do half now and skip the $500 track bar in the process.

 

[Rickyd]

Comment: I would like to stretch the front forward a 2-3 inches and will need to move the frame side track bar mount. I'm considering a double shear bracket

There is nothing wrong with double shear. Especially considering how labor intensive it is to remove the stock bracket intact and relocate it.

Most of this thread is just a debate on properly diagnosing suspension issues and if it's worth welding a double shear bracket on only to do it all over again with tonz and fodeez. I'm not convinced the op couldn't put his jks(bent?) in a press to adjust it a little while saving up for 1 tons.

If we all needed 3" bumps for a jks it would already be apparent.

 

[gasiorv]

I misinterpreted the post about max tire size on an XJ HP30 as well. Now that that is cleared up, I have a question and a comment:

For context, I have a locked XJ HP30 on 35s with 30 spline RCVs , spicer ball joints and Timken unit bearings.

Question: I really would like the help of hydro assist steering. What exactly is your concern with it?

Comment: I would like to stretch the front forward a 2-3 inches and will need to move the frame side track bar mount. I'm considering a double shear bracket with a heim and possibly a cross brace instead of another factory style single shear for strength. Increased range of motion is another perceived advantage but not a current problem with 9" of shock travel (although it seems like a possible issue with 11-12" shocks when I mid-arm). I'm aware @mrblaine has found the stock style bracket to be sufficient and Josh reports no issues with his set up.

I had mine cross braced when it was in stock location, but the cross brace is difficult with the 3 link when you push it fwd 3", you just run out of room for the upper link mount to travel. At least it was with the way I did the stretch, maybe there is a way that cross brace would work. When I pushed mine fwd 3", I made my own double shear bracket using a barnes 2-5/8" wide flat bracket and I used a 2-5/8" wide JJ for the Track bar (in lieu of a heim). I reinforced the frame side bracket with some gussets since I couldn't get the cross brace. I added the gussets to the outer side and thus had to bend my anti-rock arm out to clear it, but so far the bracket has held up so far. https://wranglertjforum.com/threads/tennessee-red.42238/post-1656590

I also have hydro assist, not only does it make it so much better in the rocks but I was having track bar issues (brackets cracking, track bar joints wearing out quickly, etc..) and those issues basically went away after I added the hydro assist. Having wheeled with you, I can say that you my friend need to be focused on Hydro Assist as priority one

 

[bty34]

Both could possibly be true according to what Mr Blaine showed with the Currie track bar. I don’t have one I have a jks. I’m going to do an axle swap and fabricate my own steering and track bar set up when I do and I plan to go double shear so I will need the frame side bracket cut off anyway. So to me it would be a waste in my eyes to buy a 500$ track bar and have to do all the work later anyway when I can buy a sub 200$ track bar and do the work of cutting off the bracket and welding on a double shear mount now

If you are going to do an axle swap soon and have to build custom steering and a custom trackbar you should be picking a bracket based on how easy it will be to cut off.

You're wasting time and money, not saving.

 

[cmoore]

I misinterpreted the post about max tire size on an XJ HP30 as well. Now that that is cleared up, I have a question and a comment:

For context, I have a locked XJ HP30 on 35s with 30 spline RCVs , spicer ball joints and Timken unit bearings.

Question: I really would like the help of hydro assist steering. What exactly is your concern with it?

Comment: I would like to stretch the front forward a 2-3 inches and will need to move the frame side track bar mount. I'm considering a double shear bracket with a heim and possibly a cross brace instead of another factory style single shear for strength. Increased range of motion is another perceived advantage but not a current problem with 9" of shock travel (although it seems like a possible issue with 11-12" shocks when I mid-arm). I'm aware @mrblaine has found the stock style bracket to be sufficient and Josh reports no issues with his set up.

I ran that almost exact setup early in the early 2000's (except with super30/CTMs and Warn selectable hub conversion) it was a good setup for 35s. FWIW, it also ran a currie trackbar and a MORE steering box brace, with adj shorts arms (it was a TJ). It worked really well from MN to CA for years. I actually like hydro ( my last couple jeeps have had either double or single rams) but I like to use the strength hydro offers on trail and not always in the smartest ways. People who know me will tell you I don't wheel perfectly, and one of the bad habits I get into is using the hydro to move/wiggle the jeep on/off things. Used properly and with restraint, I know people make hydro work on a Dana 30 just fine. Me, I am more likely to wedge the wheel between a Ram and a Hard Place. On a Dana 30, I would worry about that every single time I turned into an obstacle. I don't like wheeling if I'm constantly second guessing the durability of my rig the whole trip. So again, I'm not telling people don't do it, I'm just saying I don't trust that setup for me.

Stretching the front is always a good idea, if you can make everything clear. As mentioned things can get real tight (unless you go double ram).

 

[Apparition]

Dana 30 and TJ Dana 44’s use the same outers. So why is the 30 an issue?

 

[Dylpickle200]

If you are going to do an axle swap soon and have to build custom steering and a custom trackbar you should be picking a bracket based on how easy it will be to cut off.

You're wasting time and money, not saving.

Yea the Barnes bracket is super easy to change and only costs 25$ that’s why I’m asking about it… just want to make sure it will work for what I need it to in the time being before I order

 

[cmoore]

Dana 30 and TJ Dana 44’s use the same outers. So why is the 30 an issue?

TJ44s have a 30 outer and I didnt want to confuse those who might think I have concerns about all 44s (because I don't).

Edit: for clarity so I'm not misunderstood. The OP has an HP30, Woodrow has an HP30, and I was talking about when I had an HP30, so when I was typing, of course, I said Dana 30. I have the same worries about the TJ44 because it has the same Dana 30 outers. I didnt run hydro on my rubi44's either.

 

[mrblaine]

My whole reasoning in skipping the Currie track bar and going straight to double shear is over my plans to axle swap in the future as highlighted earlier in this post. I’m going to have to do the work anyway why not do half now and skip the $500 track bar in the process.

Your logic is highly flawed due to the low number of big axle swaps and custom steering you've done. It would be a mistake and not a little one to assume or even believe you could use the same track bar frame mount for both axles. When you do the big axle and custom steering, you'd be retarded to leave the axle side trackbar in the same location as you currently have. That means that side changes. You'd be retarded to leave the frame side in the same spot and run the stock drop pitman, so that side changes. You will need a flat pitman, you will need to scoot the axle forward from stock more than a little bit. To avoid bumpsteer, (unless you're a retard who likes bumpsteer) you're moving the frame side, to line up with the flat pitman that is also a different length than stock.

There is exactly zero interchangeable between the steering and trackbar locations at either end between what you have now, might have with your temporary trackbar and double shear mount, and what you will need for the big axle. Trying to make something work for both is a fool's errand.

 

[NashvilleTJ]

Your logic is highly flawed due to the low number of big axle swaps and custom steering you've done. It would be a mistake and not a little one to assume or even believe you could use the same track bar frame mount for both axles. When you do the big axle and custom steering, you'd be retarded to leave the axle side trackbar in the same location as you currently have. That means that side changes. You'd be retarded to leave the frame side in the same spot and run the stock drop pitman, so that side changes. You will need a flat pitman, you will need to scoot the axle forward from stock more than a little bit. To avoid bumpsteer, (unless you're a retard who likes bumpsteer) you're moving the frame side, to line up with the flat pitman that is also a different length than stock.

There is exactly zero interchangeable between the steering and trackbar locations at either end between what you have now, might have with your temporary trackbar and double shear mount, and what you will need for the big axle. Trying to make something work for both is a fool's errand.

But remember, he's not asking for advice. He just wants to know if the Barnes bracket is any good...

How boring and uninformative this place would be if we just answered the questions we are asked. Thanks for taking the time on this one, Blaine.