Novak Conversions Jeep Wrangler TJ radiator

Need radiator recommendation

I have nothing except a couple million plastic slots to support my position. I would profer that later design changes are not necessarily because they think there is room for improvement, otherwise that spindly upper half of the JK inner C would not exist. The existence of longer tubes in the same diameter and wall thickness shared with the TJ would also not exist in a front axle under the JK that is easily under designed. Seriously Jeep, the same tubes under a 4 door?

The thing about mass manufacturing is they're only gonna do things that improve their bottom line (or at least that they expect to), because ultimately the car buyer is not the customer, the shareholder is. If it's more expensive to do, then they have identified a reason to expect a return on investment.

A change that increases part cost that is not going to be noticed by the typical buyer won't bring additional sales so it would be expected to provide a return in reduced warranty claims, assembly labor, supply chain efficiencies, or a combination of those.

On the JK axle tubes they apparently decided that a beefier axle would not bring the additional sales or reduced warranty cost to justify the cost of the parts to upgrade all of the models, or to split the volume into multiple parts which would increase the per-unit cost of the original part as well. Unfortunately for the offroad enthusiast, they were probably right. We're not their target market as much as we'd like to be.
 
The thing about mass manufacturing is they're only gonna do things that improve their bottom line (or at least that they expect to), because ultimately the car buyer is not the customer, the shareholder is. If it's more expensive to do, then they have identified a reason to expect a return on investment.

A change that increases part cost that is not going to be noticed by the typical buyer won't bring additional sales so it would be expected to provide a return in reduced warranty claims, assembly labor, supply chain efficiencies, or a combination of those.

On the JK axle tubes they apparently decided that a beefier axle would not bring the additional sales or reduced warranty cost to justify the cost of the parts to upgrade all of the models, or to split the volume into multiple parts which would increase the per-unit cost of the original part as well. Unfortunately for the offroad enthusiast, they were probably right. We're not their target market as much as we'd like to be.

But, the presumption that a later design change was done to improve the mount system is flawed since they had no history of a high or even a low failure rate with the previous design. There was nothing to improve. The only thing we can assume is they changed it to be different, not necessarily better.

There were lots of broken tubes in the early years of the JK. I know of a guide outfit that expected a 100% failure rate on unmodified bone stock vehicles. They sleeved them internally to make the field repair easier. Slide them back together and weld them up using the built in alignment jig.

None of that changes the fact that nothing about a TJ axle would be considered anything other than adequate and to do the same on a longer heavier vehicle is pretty shortsighted.
 
But, the presumption that a later design change was done to improve the mount system is flawed since they had no history of a high or even a low failure rate with the previous design. There was nothing to improve. The only thing we can assume is they changed it to be different, not necessarily better.

Presumptive, maybe, but I don't think I'd go so far as to say flawed. The most likely reason they did it is because that's how all their other vehicles were done, which begs the question of why do most modern cars rubber mount their radiators if a screw into the body structure is just fine? We don't know what data they did or didn't have, we just know that the industry at large has transitioned away from the cheapest possible way to mount a radiator in favor of something undeniably more expensive.

Somewhat of a tangent, but I do appreciate what they did with the lower mounts with no fasteners, clearly an assembly labor benefit and pays back during replacement as well.

There were lots of broken tubes in the early years of the JK. I know of a guide outfit that expected a 100% failure rate on unmodified bone stock vehicles. They sleeved them internally to make the field repair easier. Slide them back together and weld them up using the built in alignment jig.

None of that changes the fact that nothing about a TJ axle would be considered anything other than adequate and to do the same on a longer heavier vehicle is pretty shortsighted.

Yeah that sucks. Big miss on their part. Being after the Daimler merger it wouldn't be surprising to me if the people making that selection were not from the wrangler team and didn't apply any additional design factor for the way Jeeps are used.

A cultural difference I've observed is that Americans like to make some educated assumptions on how robust to make something, usually erring on the tougher side even when it uses a little extra material, but they do occasionally miss big enough to be a problem. The Germans like to analyze the hell out of it and make it exactly as tough as it needs to be ...the problem is that they miss just as often and when they do, they've analyzed all the safety margin out of it and we end up replacing transmissions and PCMs and dropping our gas tanks to fix a stuck plunger...and that's just after they got their hands on the last couple years of the TJ. just look at all the dumbass stuff that goes wrong with German cars...

Unfortunately the commodization and globalization of the industry has spread that philosophy everywhere and all new cars are basically trash.
 
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Take this how yall want but ive been through 2 plastic radiators, They seem to have busted around the crimps&core of the radiator,one busted as i was flexed out the other busted 2 days after one of my trips to bridgeport OHV
I figured that it was the flexing of the grill so to mitigate that issue i used some thick rubber washers from ace hardware and i haven't had a busted tank since.The rubber washers act as a bushing "against" the deflection instead of the radiator deflecting/flexing with the grill when its normally mounted
 
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Take this how yall want but ive been through 2 plastic radiators, They seem to have busted around the crimps&core of the radiator,one busted as i was flexed out the other busted 2 days after one of my trips to bridgeport OHV
I figured that it was the flexing of the grill so to mitigate that issue i used some thick rubber washers from ace hardware and i haven't had a busted tank since.The rubber washers act as a bushing "against" the deflection instead of the radiator deflecting/flexing with the grill when its normally mounted

Most of the TJ radiators I’ve seen fail from the top tank splitting. 🤷🏼‍♂️
 
Take this how yall want but ive been through 2 plastic radiators, They seem to have busted around the crimps&core of the radiator,one busted as i was flexed out the other busted 2 days after one of my trips to bridgeport OHV
I figured that it was the flexing of the grill so to mitigate that issue i used some thick rubber washers from ace hardware and i haven't had a busted tank since.The rubber washers act as a bushing "against" the deflection instead of the radiator deflecting/flexing with the grill when its normally mounted

The grill assembly is quite rigid. I'd be surprised if it was flex related, but my posts in this thread are focused on shock/vibration and thermal stresses.
 
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mine leaked, less than 1000 m

The aluminum core in the OEM radiator is just as susceptible to shock and vibration. It isn't like there is any shock absorbing quality in the plastic tanks to isolate the core. That and I wouldn't ever refer to the flange mount to core assembly anything resembling robust. Or my way of saying if shock and vibration are present enough to tear up an all aluminum, I don't think the stock radiator would fare any better. I think they just build crap and want to blame their deficiency on anything but their shoddy practices.

Wizard blamed this failure which is an obvious joint failure on the customer mixing 2 types of anti-freeze. The customer didn't, I'm responsible for the installation, flush, and coolant selection. Mopar coolant doesn't tear up aluminum radiators.
View attachment 634514
Not hard to tell what failed after 4 months and sub 5000 miles. They made us ship it back for examination and then denied the warranty claim.

View attachment 634515

some photos of he location it failed, ran pressure test and bubbles at the top just here.

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1760795710112.png
 
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Most of the TJ radiators I’ve seen fail from the top tank splitting. 🤷🏼‍♂️

My top tank split open about a quarter inch above the crimp joint and about 8” long. I replaced it with a brass/copper radiator from CSF. I firmly believe that plastic parts have no business in a cooling system unless you intend for it to fail
 
mines didn't split/burst but the crimps were starting to fail causing the radiator to seep coolant
The crimp isn't failing. The O-ring seal gets compressed slightly each time the system comes up to temp. Over time and 1000's of heat cycles, it slowly stops expanding back enough to seal fully. While it is annoying, we've seen them go like that for a couple of years without failing. Just a little seep around the top crimp, a bit of coolant smell, and then it seals again when it gets warm. We know it is sealing because it would spray coolant when the thermostat opens.
 
The crimp isn't failing. The O-ring seal gets compressed slightly each time the system comes up to temp. Over time and 1000's of heat cycles, it slowly stops expanding back enough to seal fully. While it is annoying, we've seen them go like that for a couple of years without failing. Just a little seep around the top crimp, a bit of coolant smell, and then it seals again when it gets warm. We know it is sealing because it would spray coolant when the thermostat opens.
Didn't know it used a O-ring, Learned something new !
This happened to me on a new unit from Advanced auto (few months old,few thousand miles) Got a replacement And no failures yet,it's been close to a year now !
 
Novak Conversions Jeep Wrangler TJ radiator