Is an engine swap inevitable?

[The4bangertj]

Curious if I’m crazy to think this. I have the 2.5L so I know the 4.0 guys are in a different situation. For the 2.5 I have seen a huge drop in support. Went from having many options to pick up parts at any store 10 years ago to now having only 1-2 options shipped only. My fear is the parts for sensors has already been lost for oem mopar stuff and even half decent brands are disappearing so now I’m only left with bottom of the barrel store brand and Amazon parts. And when I do buy these parts I’m often replacing the same part multiple times till I get a good one. It seems to me that the 2.5 will not be a motor I can keep around for my life time as I’m 26 and it’s already getting hard. This thought isn’t a soon process but in the next 10 years I would like to motor swap to something that has lasting support for my life time.
Is the 4.0 going to last that long? Or should I just gut the jeep and do a stand alone LS picking one of the newer ones? Yes the L’s will be more expensive but at the point of actually replacing the motor I won’t be penny pinching or worried about its down time since I would want to do a rebuilt 4.0 and new parts as much as I could so I feel the cost and effort to do a 4.0 swap for me is close to the Ls so why not just do the Ls.
I’m also worried about scope creep going well if I have an Ls I might as well do curries and if I have curries I might as well do coilovers and mid arm. I was fine with the hp of the 2.5 so I’m not searching for hp but I like simplicity.
What do you think? 2.5 will last? Ls, 4.0, something else?

 

[NashvilleTJ]

Curious if I’m crazy to think this. I have the 2.5L so I know the 4.0 guys are in a different situation. For the 2.5 I have seen a huge drop in support. Went from having many options to pick up parts at any store 10 years ago to now having only 1-2 options shipped only. My fear is the parts for sensors has already been lost for oem mopar stuff and even half decent brands are disappearing so now I’m only left with bottom of the barrel store brand and Amazon parts. And when I do buy these parts I’m often replacing the same part multiple times till I get a good one. It seems to me that the 2.5 will not be a motor I can keep around for my life time as I’m 26 and it’s already getting hard. This thought isn’t a soon process but in the next 10 years I would like to motor swap to something that has lasting support for my life time.
Is the 4.0 going to last that long? Or should I just gut the jeep and do a stand alone LS picking one of the newer ones? Yes the L’s will be more expensive but at the point of actually replacing the motor I won’t be penny pinching or worried about its down time since I would want to do a rebuilt 4.0 and new parts as much as I could so I feel the cost and effort to do a 4.0 swap for me is close to the Ls so why not just do the Ls.
I’m also worried about scope creep going well if I have an Ls I might as well do curries and if I have curries I might as well do coilovers and mid arm. I was fine with the hp of the 2.5 so I’m not searching for hp but I like simplicity.
What do you think? 2.5 will last? Ls, 4.0, something else?

If you are going to the effort and expense of a swap, I think your are much better off going the LS route. The newest direct Jeep 4.0 swap will result in a 20 year old mill, and you are right back where you started with sensors, parts, etc. You can put a much more current LS in there and at least reduce the parts availability issue. And of course the power will be much better than you can reasonably get out of the 4.0. Swapping from the 4 banger to the 4.0 can be close to the effort of a V8 sawp.

Really depends on your use case - is this a toy or your primary transportation? That makes a big difference. And truthfully, if you are really planning to keep if for a long, long time - it is much easier to do so if it is not your primary transportation.

Now, if you want to talk about actually making a bunch of power...

 

[Chris]

If you are going to the effort and expense of a swap, I think your are much better off going the LS route. The newest direct Jeep 4.0 swap will result in a 20 year old mill, and you are right back where you started with sensors, parts, etc. You can put a much more current LS in there and at least reduce the parts availability issue. And of course the power will be much better than you can reasonably get out of the 4.0. Swapping from the 4 banger to the 4.0 can be close to the effort of a V8 sawp.

Really depends on your use case - is this a toy or your primary transportation? That makes a big difference. And truthfully, if you are really planning to keep if for a long, long time - it is much easier to do so if it is not your primary transportation.

Now, if you want to talk about actually making a bunch of power...

100% agree

 

[NashvilleTJ]

100% agree

You mean about the power thing, Chris? Yeah, LS's suck...

 

[The4bangertj]

If you are going to the effort and expense of a swap, I think your are much better off going the LS route. The newest direct Jeep 4.0 swap will result in a 20 year old mill, and you are right back where you started with sensors, parts, etc. You can put a much more current LS in there and at least reduce the parts availability issue. And of course the power will be much better than you can reasonably get out of the 4.0.

Really depends on your use case - is this a toy or your primary transportation? That makes a big difference. And truthfully, if you are really planning to keep if for a long, long time - it is much easier to do so if it is not your primary transportation.

Now, if you want to talk about actually making a bunch of power...

Currently it’s my daily so I’m limping it along as best as I can. But here in 1-2 years it will not be. Then it’ll be toy and will prob keep it as the 2.5 till something stops me from keeping it as such so I’m just trying to plan ahead so I can be ready for that time and not just be disappointed when it dies.
I ask because everyone I talk to always tells me to 4.0 swap but I didn’t think those people fully understood what it takes to do either swap.
Now doing down the Ls plan in a broad scope I would be totally fine redoing engine trans and tcase while also replacing the whole dash since I’d assume non of the electronics match anymore either but would a 30/44 make sense to keep or going with larger axles like curries make more sense. I still don’t have any plans to go biggest than 35s but just don’t want to scope creep too far and just don’t know the line.

 

[Chris]

You mean about the power thing, Chris? Yeah, LS's suck...

I'm just saying if I was going to swap out my 4-cylidner I wouldn't bother wasting the time and effort of putting in a 4.0. At that point I would put in an LS.

 

[lBasket]

I think it's more of a 20-25yo platform problem vs. the engine you have. They don't even carry things like the bulbs for the original headlights locally anymore where I live. Almost everything is order online only for me too.

 

[NashvilleTJ]

Currently it’s my daily so I’m limping it along as best as I can. But here in 1-2 years it will not be. Then it’ll be toy and will prob keep it as the 2.5 till something stops me from keeping it as such so I’m just trying to plan ahead so I can be ready for that time and not just be disappointed when it dies.
I ask because everyone I talk to always tells me to 4.0 swap but I didn’t think those people fully understood what it takes to do either swap.
Now doing down the Ls plan in a broad scope I would be totally fine redoing engine trans and tcase while also replacing the whole dash since I’d assume non of the electronics match anymore either but would a 30/44 make sense to keep or going with larger axles like curries make more sense. I still don’t have any plans to go biggest than 35s but just don’t want to scope creep too far and just don’t know the line.

It's almost a one-to-one swap list to go from a 4 banger to a 4.0 as it is to go from a 4 banger to a V8. Engine, tranny, cooling, wiring, and possibly even gauges if you go to an '05 or '06 4.0 (not sure about that one, but it's a similar challenge even if you go to a later Hemi).

If it's going to be a toy, and you are faced with having to do the swap - always go to the power option. It makes spending the coin easier to swallow.

And if you go with the LS, you can sell your 44, swap in a 35, and pocket the difference!

 

[NashvilleTJ]

I'm must saying if I was going to swap out my 4-cylidner I wouldn't bother wasting the time and effort of putting in a 4.0. At that point I would put in an LS.

Yeah, I knew what you were saying - but you know how much I love pokin' at the LS.

 

[OldBuzzard]

Have you considered the identity crisis when you have to change your name to The8bangertj ?

 

[Woodrow]

Curious if I’m crazy to think this. I have the 2.5L so I know the 4.0 guys are in a different situation. For the 2.5 I have seen a huge drop in support. Went from having many options to pick up parts at any store 10 years ago to now having only 1-2 options shipped only. My fear is the parts for sensors has already been lost for oem mopar stuff and even half decent brands are disappearing so now I’m only left with bottom of the barrel store brand and Amazon parts. And when I do buy these parts I’m often replacing the same part multiple times till I get a good one. It seems to me that the 2.5 will not be a motor I can keep around for my life time as I’m 26 and it’s already getting hard. This thought isn’t a soon process but in the next 10 years I would like to motor swap to something that has lasting support for my life time.
Is the 4.0 going to last that long? Or should I just gut the jeep and do a stand alone LS picking one of the newer ones? Yes the L’s will be more expensive but at the point of actually replacing the motor I won’t be penny pinching or worried about its down time since I would want to do a rebuilt 4.0 and new parts as much as I could so I feel the cost and effort to do a 4.0 swap for me is close to the Ls so why not just do the Ls.
I’m also worried about scope creep going well if I have an Ls I might as well do curries and if I have curries I might as well do coilovers and mid arm. I was fine with the hp of the 2.5 so I’m not searching for hp but I like simplicity.
What do you think? 2.5 will last? Ls, 4.0, something else?

It sounds like you are trying to talk yourself into a V8 swap, which I would 100% endorse. If it was the more modern 2.4L, I might consider boost but not the 2.5 which is no more advanced than the 4.0. Having said that, if you want or need to keep the 2.5, I would bet you'll be able to find parts (albeit offshore lower quality stuff) for quite some time.

As an alternative, I suppose you could even rip all the electronics out and build your own set up with a stand alone EFI system and custom gauges. I don't see a large performance benefit to that (or any) but you would learn a lot and maybe the things you use could be at least partially repurposed for your eventual V8 swap?

 

[srimes]

If I had a 2.5 and wanted a 4.0 TJ I'd sell my TJ and buy one with a 4.0 already in it. The change simply isn't worth my time and effort.

If you're low on cash, like doing swaps and have a good affordable donor a 4.0 could be worth it. It's easier to sell factory configurations as many people won't consider buying a car with a non-factory engine.

LS is hard to beat for affordability.

 

[The4bangertj]

Kinda glad to hear that it’s still not super common for 4.0 stuff bc I like the idea of an Ls more anyways just worried by the end of it I don’t even have any part of my original jeep.
Yes the thought of my name has popped in my head and I still don’t know what I’ll do but I’ll see when I get there lol.

 

[lBasket]

Kinda glad to hear that it’s still not super common for 4.0 stuff bc I like the idea of an Ls more anyways just worried by the end of it I don’t even have any part of my original jeep.
Yes the thought of my name has popped in my head and I still don’t know what I’ll do but I’ll see when I get there lol.

A jeep you built is cooler than a jeep the factory built anyways

 

[Woodrow]

A jeep you built is cooler than a jeep the factory built anyways

Definitely. I think the point about resale is valid but I don’t care about that at all. I also don’t think there is anything inherently speciaI about a mass produced Chrysler.

 

[srimes]

Kinda glad to hear that it’s still not super common for 4.0 stuff bc I like the idea of an Ls more anyways just worried by the end of it I don’t even have any part of my original jeep.
Yes the thought of my name has popped in my head and I still don’t know what I’ll do but I’ll see when I get there lol.

Get 4 girlfriends/wives. Or frequent dive bars and pick up the 4/10s. You have options.

 

[The4bangertj]

Ya my point of the 4.0 was more so if somehow the cost was much less than an Ls making it worth while when I’m not super worried about cost.
I agree I love my jeep bc despite it being a 4cyl only the frame and part of the tub is left since I bought it so lots of fun building even when it’s seen as mostly stock.
You’re not wrong this is an excuse for a swap but in terms of 3 or more years down the road. I’ll keep it a 2.5 for at least the next 3 years but after that i was just curious if the effort to keep it would be worth it and it doesn’t seem to be.
It does open a can of worms to what i do want to do with the suspension since the goal was to keep it little and nothing crazy but that goes out the window once I put an Ls in.

 

[lBasket]

Definitely. I think the point about resale is valid but I don’t care about that at all. I also don’t think there is anything inherently speciaI about a mass produced Chrysler.

What's that saying? Caring about the resale value is like worrying about the girlfriend's next guy or something?

 

[Wildman]

I can't believe I'm seeing what I'm seeing.... WTF just happened to the world here??? Jeff is in support of a LS swap???? Heck it took me 20 minutes to get my jaw off the ground.

I'd always argue for a Magnum V-8 swap in an older TJ. They're the easiest to swap in.

If you're going to do the swap and are planning on gutting things then why not go the Vortec 4200 then?

 

[The4bangertj]

So how different would all the LS motors be in support? I know most Ls and Lt motors are basically the same but the Ls 1 is 97-03 and ls3 are 08-13 so would there be a difference to one over the other based on support alone?