How much smoke would a smoker smoke if a smoker could smoke smoke? Smoke machine questions

cr0sh

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Ok - maybe that's a bit flippant title...but maybe it caught your attention?

How many of you out there have used a commercial smoke machine for evap testing? Let me elaborate:

I'm getting a code for a "medium leak" on my TJ (no, it isn't the gas cap) and so I wanted to smoke it (reg is coming due in Sept) - but no way could I afford to buy a real smoke machine...so I made one.

It does make smoke, and the PSI is probably way less than 1 (uses a small aquarium air pump). I'm using a 25W soldering iron as my heat source (this one: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01125AV7S?tag=wranglerorg-20), a pickle jar, a bunch of silicone sealant, etc, etc. Leaks from the jar are minor; most smoke exits the jar.

I just don't know if its enough smoke for testing with; right now, it's a decent wispy flow from the end of the output tube. I'm not expecting to produce gargantuan clouds - but I'm not sure if what I am making will be enough to spot wherever my leak happens to be, once the smoke makes it thru the system.

So I'm wondering if anyone has used a commercial machine of any sort, and how much smoke it made? If I need to make more smoke, my only real option would be to rebuild it with a higher wattage soldering iron, without needing to do something more custom (ie, break out my supply of nichrome wire and start really experimenting). If I need more air output, I can probably buy a more powerful pump.

If I can find my leak, that'd be gravy - though I fear what I may find (I know that the TJ has a big chunk of its evap system behind the passenger side rear wheel well, and that part is expensive...and that there's a line that goes to it that likes to break and is virtually unobtanium - I'm praying it's neither of those, and something much simpler and cheaper).

One last thing - based on what I have gathered, the TJ has a schraeder valve in the engine compartment on the driver's side, and this is where you are supposed to pump the smoke into (after removing the valve stem) - I have located that valve, and I have the tool to remove the stem...but I do want to verify that this is what I need to do; ie - get a smoke machine producing smoke, pump it into that line, and look around the engine compartment, under the vehicle, and at the read passenger wheel well to see if I see smoke exiting; does that all sound correct (assuming I am producing enough smoke, and a proper amount of air flow)?

Thank you, everyone.
 
How many of you out there have used a commercial smoke machine for evap testing?
Years ago, I made one using a paint can and a propane regulator. Then I bought a simple one. Both of those required an air compressor input. Then I bought one that has a pump built in. They all work, but I kept upgrading for convenience.

It does make smoke, and the PSI is probably way less than 1 (uses a small aquarium air pump).
You don't need much pressure, but the pump needs to pump at an adequate flow rate or it will take forever to fill the system with smoke. I have no idea if an aquarium pump is a good choice or not, so I can't help you there.

So I'm wondering if anyone has used a commercial machine of any sort, and how much smoke it made?
If you click on some of the machines on this site, there are videos, and sections of those videos show a typical smoke output:
https://www.autolinepro.com/collections/automotive-smoke-machines

One last thing - based on what I have gathered, the TJ has a schraeder valve in the engine compartment on the driver's side, and this is where you are supposed to pump the smoke into (after removing the valve stem) - I have located that valve, and I have the tool to remove the stem...but I do want to verify that this is what I need to do; ie - get a smoke machine producing smoke, pump it into that line, and look around the engine compartment, under the vehicle, and at the read passenger wheel well to see if I see smoke exiting; does that all sound correct (assuming I am producing enough smoke, and a proper amount of air flow)?
If item number 1 in the figure below (from the Factory Service Manual - "FSM" - found in the TJ Resources forum) is what you've located, then yes, that is one place to connect (you can connect to the system virtually anywhere, but that location is specifically for that purpose):
1749728782688.png


Connect there, and start injecting smoke. Remove the gas cap after a bit and see if smoke comes out. If not, put it back on, wait for more smoke, and then open it again. Repeat until you get smoke coming out. That's when you can start looking for leaks. You have to fill the entire system with smoke before you start looking for leaks. Also, it can be hard to see the leaks - don't expect a huge, billowing cloud of smoke. A medium leak may not produce much, so you have to look closely. Use a flashlight and move it around to different angles as you look, which can help spot it.

Good luck!
 
I made one out of PVC. PVC cap on the bottom. PVC access lid on top. Six inches of PVC between the two. Drilled three holes...two for the element, the third for a tire valve (pulled into position and hooked a bike pump up to it).

For the element I put some copper wire in a oil light wick and rotated it a bunch of times around a wood dowel. Pulled the dowel out and hooked each side to a bolt I had put in the holes I drilled. Soaked the wick with mineral oil, hooked up the bike pump and the attached a wire from the battery to each bolt on the side to hear the element.

My hose was attached to a nipple that was screwed in a hole in the access cap. Whole thing was maybe 12 bucks...maybe 20 in today's prices.
 
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Are you sure you didn't use nichrome wire? Copper would result in a direct short...

Positive. Only need to touch the terminal together for a couple seconds, wire glows and canister fill with smoke. Bike pump pushes it through system. Leave it touching too long and you melt the wire in half. Yup, found that out.

I have no idea what nichrome wire is. I used copper from a spool that I have.
 
I have no idea what nichrome wire is.
Nickel-chromium wire. Sometimes called "resistance wire." It's what's used in blow driers, space heaters, electric clothes dryers, toasters, etc. It has a much higher resistivity than copper, and it can withstand very high temps, making it perfect for converting electrical energy into heat energy relatively safely. Sized properly, you'd turn on the power with no worries about melting.
 
Nickel-chromium wire. Sometimes called "resistance wire." It's what's used in blow driers, space heaters, electric clothes dryers, toasters, etc. It has a much higher resistivity than copper, and it can withstand very high temps, making it perfect for converting electrical energy into heat energy relatively safely. Sized properly, you'd turn on the power with no worries about melting.

Thank you for that, I did not know. Yep, I used red copper wire. :LOL:
 
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That's motor-winding wire. The red tint is the insulation - a very thin layer of (usually) polyurethane or polyamide. I guess it got the job done for you, but nichrome is made for that application...

Got a big box full of them. Red, gold and green. My uncle owned a dealership and would give them to my dad. When my mom passed away and we moved my dad I filled a box and brought it home, threw the rest way. No idea what it is from but the wire is very handy.

Do you know what it is from? Just curious
 
Got a big box full of them. Red, gold and green. My uncle owned a dealership and would give them to my dad. When my mom passed away and we moved my dad I filled a box and brought it home, threw the rest way. No idea what it is from but the wire is very handy.

Do you know what it is from? Just curious
I'm assuming by dealership, you mean car dealership? Did the dealership repair alternators/generators or starters? Old school repairs included re-winding the armatures, and that is the type of wire used for that. I have no idea what the colors were for, though...

The reason that wire, when used in an armature, doesn't result in a direct short is that they use a very long piece of it wrapped over and over around the core. Since the resistance is directly related to the wire length, it actually has enough resistance to not be a direct short. However, when it's that long, it also doesn't get hot enough. That's why nichrome wire is so good for heating. It has both high electrical resistance, so it's not a direct short, and high temperature resistance, so it can glow red hot without melting.
 
Got a big box full of them. Red, gold and green. My uncle owned a dealership and would give them to my dad. When my mom passed away and we moved my dad I filled a box and brought it home, threw the rest way. No idea what it is from but the wire is very handy.

Do you know what it is from? Just curious

I used to use those colored enameled wires to wind transformers and inductors for ham radio. They're used in solenoids, electromagnets. As @sab said, alternators and starters. Ignition coils. Probably a lot more. Superconducting Super Colliders, I suppose.

The thin enamel insulates them, so they can be tightly wound. But if they get too hot, the enamel melts and causes a short. That's one of the common failures in starters and alternators.
 
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I'm assuming by dealership, you mean car dealership? Did the dealership repair alternators/generators or starters? Old school repairs included re-winding the armatures, and that is the type of wire used for that. I have no idea what the colors were for, though...

The reason that wire, when used in an armature, doesn't result in a direct short is that they use a very long piece of it wrapped over and over around the core. Since the resistance is directly related to the wire length, it actually has enough resistance to not be a direct short. However, when it's that long, it also doesn't get hot enough. That's why nichrome wire is so good for heating. It has both high electrical resistance, so it's not a direct short, and high temperature resistance, so it can glow red hot without melting.

I used to use those colored enameled wires to wind transformers and inductors for ham radio. They're used in solenoids, electromagnets. As @sab said, alternators and starters. Ignition coils. Probably a lot more. Superconducting Super Colliders, I suppose.

The thin enamel insulates them, so they can be tightly wound. But if they get too hot, the enamel melts and causes a short. That's one of the common failures in starters and alternators.

Thank you gentlemen. For the great answer.

Just to clarify, I only used a piece a foot long maybe 15 inches total.

This is my go to wire, use it for all kinds of things.
 
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