Frame Rust

[Mike_H]

When it rains, it pours. I've had a string of set-backs lately on my Wrangler. Broken trackbar mount, bad shocks, loss of braking power (or a poor bleed), my wheel fell off wheeling bending the tub (no biggie) and tearing the flare (bigger deal). Well, while I was crawling around underneath it this weekend, cleaning it up from my most recent adventure, I was making sure the frame was empty again (because, Mud) and I noticed a REALLY big chunk of stuff in the frame...well, the stuff is actually frame material from the inside. That didn't concern me. What DOES concern me is that I was able to shove a screwdriver through the bottom of the frame rail, right behind the skid plate!

I'm almost ready to put a "for sale" sign on this damn thing.

Barring that, I have a few options:

1. The front and rear frames seem good. I could do what @toximus did, buy some steel and weld in new center sections. I've already repaired the spring perches and the rear crossmember area when I removed the body lift there.
2. Buy some frame sections from Pocono Metal Works and repair it that way
3. Find a different frame in the SW that may or may not be true...would be very tough for me to inspect
4. Buy a wrecked jeep from the SW. Again, I run the risk of getting an out of whack frame, but at least I can see the vehicle (and the damage) that caused it to be totaled.

My issue with repairing what I have...I know the front end is slightly tweaked. I found that when I was trying to get my fenders and hood lined up after the tub replacement last winter. Plus...knowing what I know...I think that just delays the inevitable. I will need to replace the rear arches eventually.

Finding a frame is the "best" option, IMHO. Maybe somewhere around Gulf Shores and make a long weekend of it. Drive down there, buy a couple good ones, and hope to sell one to offset the cost of mine. Another benefit of this option is getting to spend some time in nicer weather with my sweetie.

Buying a wreck is the thing I think I'd most like to do. I can get one with an Automatic and all the swap parts I'd need for that. If it comes from the SW, I can sell the rust free stuff probably pretty easily...but I'll still have a bunch of shit laying around and the work involved in that will be huge. Financially, its probably the best bet....Higher upfront cost, but the potential to possibly make a couple bucks is there.


I guess option 5, not listed, is to actually sell it. I wouldn't sell it with a ticking time bomb, but I could repair the frame and sell it as such. I think I'd get a good amount of money for it, being build as it is. Then I bide my time, look for the "right" one out west and bring it back.

Thoughts?

 

[toximus]

Assuming you still enjoy Jeeping, frame swap is going to be best imho and work on the other issues as time and money allows. Any other "new TJ" is going to come with it's own issues for you to find and fix — at least you know what you're dealing with now.

 

[JMT]

Frame swap seems the easiest, assuming you can find a good one.

 

[TRE3TOP]

I’m in Atlanta and TJ frames pop up on Facebook marketplace regularly from 600-1000, FWIW

 

[Irun]

Like others have said, a frame swap is your best bet. If you do another repair, there will just be more work you'll find that needs to be done. Besides the wheel incident, how is the tub?

 

[Mike_H]

Like others have said, a frame swap is your best bet. If you do another repair, there will just be more work you'll find that needs to be done. Besides the wheel incident, how is the tub?

The tub is fine. Its pretty straight, with one small dent on the passenger side. Planning on fixing that when I do the re-spray...if I keep it.

My wife is has suggested we sell it, but doesn't necessarily understand the "enemy you know is better than the enemy you don't" theory of used cars, as @toximus was referencing above.

 

[JMT]

The tub is fine. Its pretty straight, with one small dent on the passenger side. Planning on fixing that when I do the re-spray...if I keep it.

My wife is has suggested we sell it, but doesn't necessarily understand the "enemy you know is better than the enemy you don't" theory of used cars, as @toximus was referencing above.

And further, we all know you wouldn’t get out of the Jeep what you put in it if you sold. Starting over would allow you to do things just like you like, but I think you’re already pretty much there.

 

[Irun]

My wife is has suggested we sell it, but doesn't necessarily understand the "enemy you know is better than the enemy you don't" theory of used cars, as @toximus was referencing above.

There is something to be said here. I like your idea of buying an automatic wreck, then swapping parts. The big issue there, as you said, would be ensuring you don't end up with one that has a tweaked frame. The other issue is time and space. Have done something like this before, you need the space to have the two vehicles sitting side by side, along with the time to devote to the task.

That said, you can swap things without them being side by side, but trust me it takes much much longer, which means parts can get mixed up as well. The other thing to consider is whether you can leave partially done work sit for periods of time, while life throws other things at you. This is my problem lately. I'm beginning to wonder if I shouldn't just sell everything and walk away!

 

[Mike_H]

There is something to be said here. I like your idea of buying an automatic wreck, then swapping parts. The big issue there, as you said, would be ensuring you don't end up with one that has a tweaked frame. The other issue is time and space. Have done something like this before, you need the space to have the two vehicles sitting side by side, along with the time to devote to the task.

That said, you can swap things without them being side by side, but trust me it takes much much longer, which means parts can get mixed up as well. The other thing to consider is whether you can leave partially done work sit for periods of time, while life throws other things at you. This is my problem lately. I'm beginning to wonder if I shouldn't just sell everything and walk away!

Yeah, that idea is something that the optimistic hobbyist in me says, "Go for it!" But then I remember how much work my tub swap was...three months of working on it nearly every day. Work my 9 hours, come home, have dinner and chat with the wife, then spend another 2-3 hours each night in the shop. Weekends were 10 hour days in the shop. It burned me out.

I do have the space though... Two tubs and a roller in this pic!

The temptation to drop it off to one of the local guys here that does frame repair is pretty high too...write a check and leave it. Pick it up and its fixed.

 

[TRE3TOP]

If it took you 3 months to swap a tub, then I wouldn’t try to tackle a frame swap yourself.

 

[Irun]

Yeah, that idea is something that the optimistic hobbyist in me says, "Go for it!" But then I remember how much work my tub swap was...three months of working on it nearly every day. Work my 9 hours, come home, have dinner and chat with the wife, then spend another 2-3 hours each night in the shop. Weekends were 10 hour days in the shop. It burned me out.

The temptation to drop it off to one of the local guys here that does frame repair is pretty high too...write a check and leave it. Pick it up and its fixed.

This is like many other things in life, a cost versus benefit decision. Even though a frame swap isn't nearly as difficult as a tub swap, it's still time. If someone else will do it, much faster, for a reasonable cost, it's something to consider.

Yes, it takes away money from build funds, but going that route doesn't run the risk of making fun become a chore. One where you spend your time slinging verbal comments at the Jeep, or others, and constantly asking yourself "Why the hell am I doing this?" !

 

[Mike_H]

If it took you 3 months to swap a tub, then I wouldn’t try to tackle a frame swap yourself.

You should probably review my build thread before making a statement that I'm not capable of swapping a frame...

 

[TRE3TOP]

You should probably review my build thread before making a statement that I'm not capable of swapping a frame...

Never said you were incapable, but how long you think the Jeep will be down for? A year plus? That’s my point.

 

[Mike_H]

Never said you were incapable, but how long you think the Jeep will be down for? A year plus? That’s my point.

It took me three months to swap a tub because I fixed a lot of other BS along the way. Since most of that stuff is fixed now, the frame swap is easier. The only thing I haven't pulled off the frame is the engine. Literally everything else has been removed and re-installed by now. I bet I could do it in a weekend, two at most, if I needed too. It's not my daily, so I can afford to take my time, if I want. A tub is a lot more challenging to swap than a frame...

Edit: I did replace my motor mounts...so technically, I HAVE pulled the engine out of the frame. So...Every bolt that would fight me has already been removed and replace with copious amounts of anti-seize. Seriously...I bet with a helper...A weekend wouldn't be out of the question.

 

[TRE3TOP]

Then what are you waiting for? Get to it!

 

[Vtx531]

Sorry to hear that as we are both battling the rust. I would vote to repair it. You've done pretty well repairing the rest of the rust. Shouldn't take too long and not very expensive if you do it yourself. Can always do a frame swap later if you are not happy. It's really easy to get discouraged with the rust but I say fix it!

 

[taylormade73]

Mike, i found some decent frames in Indiana (6 or so). Gping to look at them soon. That one i bought a few weeks ago for my TJ was tweaked a little. I returned it, so now im on the hunt again. Let me know if you want me to check some out for you too.

 

[Chris G]

Bummer.

If this was me, I'd be taking it in and getting new sections welded in. I'm taking mine in for some rust repair on the tub next week (I know, not as serious of an issue). I debated trying to fix myself, and ultimately decided I wanted it done right (weld in part, paint match, etc.), which I'm not capable of doing at this point.

As you mentioned, there's something to be said for dropping it off, writing a check and picking it up fixed. I haven't taken on a project like a frame or tub swap yet, but I do sometimes have to fight the feeling that it's not all that fun when the little projects start piling up. After my Drummond trip, I came back with quite a list of items to be fixed or readied for winter. Fan clutch, O2 sensors, front drive shaft rebuilt, put the hard top back on, brake booster replacement, fluid film application, caliper problem, chasing an evap leak, etc. etc. I'm just working thought through them one at a time at the moment and taking it in for the rust mitigation on the tub ensures it will get done right as well as cuts my list down by one item.

 

[fourpointzero]

Didnt read everyone's replies, but if I had to do it over again, a frame swap would be my go-to. However, your tub needs to be SUPER CLEAN. There's almost no point in building it from the ground up if the tub is a "holy" aka a mess.

If the current frame is repairable, then make it happen. Maybe it'll buy you some time to enjoy the Michigan winter and then reassess in the Spring. Meanwhile, look for a clean frame.

 

[Mike_H]

Just for clarity... My frame isn't so bad that it's not drivable. I'm about to put the Jeep in storage for the winter anyway, so I'm not in a huge hurry.

Anyone have any experience with throttle down kustoms? About 5k, but it's all new. Only 2 x4 steel and they use their own skid, so I'm not keen on it. Mostly curious if anyone has used or seen one.

@taylormade73 are you talking about baseline 4x4? They are in northern Indiana. They have quite a few frames right now... I'm not super impressed with them. Very expensive and in the case of my tub, they did not disclose all the damage. But the time I figured it out, I was too far into my project, so I just fixed it. Be very careful with them. If it's not baseline, I'd be interested in talking with your source.