Death Wobble

[Typo]

Hello all, I have been researching and coming back to this forum site and wanted to help support the forum as yall have been very helpful in the past with me just reading reply and discussions. Long story short I got my jeep back from a friend (no longer) who was paying me monthly until the full amount, but ended up stop paying so I recovered it. He had moved with it to Georgia from Florida, so there's a lot of mud that has caked everywhere. He blew out the clutch (which i've replaced) and it runs fine, but he also put a 4" lift on it, now it has the death wobble. I'm attaching pics so that yall can maybe have a better idea. I took it to a shop yesterday to have an alignment done on it as I put new tires on, but they told me the alignment has nothing to do with the wobble (I know from research it can have something to do with it, but it may not be my root cause). He did however come out and look it over with me and we found there is some play with the track bar when I moved the wheels back and fourth. I wanted to see if you guys saw anything wrong with the geometry and if there is anything else I should replace while I'm down there anyways. I'm kind of on a budget but I have to do what I have to do. It's a daily driver, I don't take it out mudding or anything - it will be a toy down the road but I need to be able to take it over 50mph for the foreseeable future.

I'm attaching a photo dump for reference. I noticed the tie rod ends aren't ideal but they're sturdy. Let me know what you think and any recommendations. I'm already looking at an adjustable track bar.

Thanks for your help, and happy to be here

 

[lBasket]

Worn parts can cause DW so if you've identified ones that need to be replaced maybe try that and see how it goes

 

[rasband]

Assuming your tires are balanced properly and the alignment is right, I would look at all the wear items (ball joints, control arms, etc).

 

[Chris]

Geometry wise I don't see anything wrong there.

I'd question whether it's death wobble or just a vibration?

True death wobble is dangerous and scary. The steering wheel starts to shake violently and no amount of speeding up or slowing down stops it.

A vibration generally only happens at certain speeds and isn't generally violent or scary.

Can you confirm whether this is a vibration or death wobble?

 

[Typo]

Geometry wise I don't see anything wrong there.

I'd question whether it's death wobble or just a vibration?

True death wobble is dangerous and scary. The steering wheel starts to shake violently and no amount of speeding up or slowing down stops it.

A vibration generally only happens at certain speeds and isn't generally violent or scary.

Can you confirm whether this is a vibration or death wobble?

At around 50mph it's just a vibration, it will tend to sway a little and it can be rough. But the last time I took it on the highway 65mph+ it was so violent I had to pull over and stop completely, then drive about 40-50 until I could get off the highway. I'm for sure going to replace the track bar now as that seems to be a leading issue- I have seen most people tend to not recommend RC, but I don't think I need to go as far as a $300 JKS with it being a daily driver. I saw a $200 BDS, wondering if that's a reliable brand?

 

[Chris]

At around 50mph it's just a vibration, it will tend to sway a little and it can be rough. But the last time I took it on the highway 65mph+ it was so violent I had to pull over and stop completely, then drive about 40-50 until I could get off the highway. I'm for sure going to replace the track bar now as that seems to be a leading issue- I have seen most people tend to not recommend RC, but I don't think I need to go as far as a $300 JKS with it being a daily driver. I saw a $200 BDS, wondering if that's a reliable brand?

I agree with the others above. Death wobble (if that's what it is) is a result of worn components. You don't need a $300 JKS track bar, the $200 BDS one should be just fine. I'd be looking at tie-rod ends, track bar, ball joints, and potentially control arm bushings.

 

[jeepguy03]

I agree with the others above. Death wobble (if that's what it is) is a result of worn components. You don't need a $300 JKS track bar, the $200 BDS one should be just fine. I'd be looking at tie-rod ends, track bar, ball joints, and potentially control arm bushings.

+1

From those pictures, all of the steering components and joints look to be original. I've worked on stock Jeeps in my circle that had death wobble and worn steering components were the culprit. A lift and bigger tires will only increase the stress on the stock worn components and make death wobble more likely. A worn track bar is usually a big contributor, as well as tie rod ends, control arm bushings, etc.

 

[GoldenGorilla]

It has a 4" lift with stock control arms. The caster angle is a going to be ugly and that it's not helping steering stability. But may not be the source of the DW.

 

[AndyG]

Death wobble can often be a result of a loose component allowing it or imbalanced tires overpowering the wheels ability to hold steady and causing it - the end result is the exact same, but it can either be caused or allowed, and also, a little of both often goes on in my estimation.

First, if the track bar is loose or has worn ends, address that- it will allow the axle to move left to right, which means the tires don’t have the counter force it provides to stay stable.

The parking lot test he did is THE TEST , do it running and non running- and look close at each joint as the steering changes direction. I do it regularly to mine, just part of ownership. We call it a dry steering test.

The tires have to be as well balanced as possible - a front to back rotation will likely answer the question if a tire is causing it.

Also inspect the control arm connections, torque on the bolts and brackets for cracked welds or metal fatigue- the front right (passenger) upper is the prime suspect with those. Blaine can describe a test for this as well , it is otherwise hard for a layman to diagnose by visual inspection.


In addition to physical forces like precession , bad , low or imbalanced tires and even brake rotors (rarely, I only know of one case) and bent rims, you have a host of parts they can and will wear that can allow death wobble to occur.

Complicated? Usually not.

Elusive? Often, but frequently one loose part is the problem. The problem is figuring out the one.

Until you repair the track bar, there is no need to do much more but look for more wear.

Remember every part can contribute to a good steering feel, and conversely age on several components can work together the other way.

I’m not saying throw a new front end under it, but trust nothing, evaluate everything and be persistent and thorough.

Death wobble is normally not the perplexing evil it is often said to be, but just a sign you need to evaluate the connections on all the front end components.

Caster creates tracking and stabilty and aids in the positive force I have thought, and alignment rarely plays in at all.

Don’t throw parts at it or get confused- look at the linkage as it moves. Sometimes it takes more than one look, depending on how familiar you are with the system…. You have to get to the point where you know what you’re looking for to be confident.

Apologies so wordy, but there’s no one-size-fits-all solution, at the same time don’t let that discourage you at all. We occasionally see something weird but most of the time it’s something simple and gets fixed quickly.

Sorry you lost a friend over it, business transactions can reveal character flaws friendship will over look. I avoid any business with friends, family and close acquaintances as much as possible, and will even work for free to avoid it.

I am no authority on death wobble at all, and can never seem to express my concepts about it concisely- fix the track bar and let us know how it does.

 

[TheBoogieman]

Unrelated issue. You might want to check/replace the body mount bushings.
May

 

[John Cooper]

Do us a favor and measure your springs.

8" in the rear and 12" in the front is stock anything over that is lift hight.

You may have alot more work to do.

 

[mrblaine]

I took it to a shop yesterday to have an alignment done on it as I put new tires on, but they told me the alignment has nothing to do with the wobble (I know from research it can have something to do with it, but it may not be my root cause).

Simple question, same as always when it comes to stuff like this. If alignment has anything to do with DW, what settings can I use to cause DW on a perfectly fine vehicle? In other words, just because research revealed an answer, that doesn't mean it is accurate.

 

[OilSpot74]

I’d just begin at the beginning, start with making sure that your tires are properly balanced. The fact that the wobble shows up at near highway speeds makes me think that it’s a balancing issue. Plus it shouldn’t be more 50$ to get a proper balance done.

 

[Brad’s Tj]

Hi Typo, I have a 05 tj with a bit of mix on my 5-5.5” lift (3” coils with adjustable Accos up front and spacers out back). So my point is that I have chased down many issues but it drives great now. It is a big frustrating pia to get right but I absolutely agree with every members suggestions. One other suggestion that I have found to be a big issue with dw is proper toe in. Typically right about 1/8” toe in I found is a sweet spot. The other thing like others mentioned is definitely worn tie rod ends or especially the track bar ends being slightly loose will almost always be the issue. Another item (that I still question btw having a drop pitman arm) is make sure your pitman arm nut is properly torqued as well too. Some aftermarket arms (if yours was changed) may not be chamfered on the side you slide onto your gear box splines and can come loose ( I learned). Lastly like others mentioned is your caster can contribute to dw and you may need at least lower adjustable track bars to correct caster.

 

[Brad’s Tj]

Adjustable track arms I meant.