Anyone have a rock crawler?

Fouledplugs · Jun 29, 2019

glwood said:
It seems like you are taking people's suggestions too personally, and firing back a little too much. I think most everyone is trying to help, so maybe pull it back a notch.

Maybe this thread is better answered on a YJ forum, as it seems you are dead set on that platform...

The 93 YJ I had rode fine on the street stock, but as soon as I lifted it, put 32's, and re-geared for those, it rode like a Conestoga wagon after that. No one would go anywhere with me post lift. And you are talking lifting for 40s...

Easy, lets peel back the onion. You are talking about two sets of leafs. Both under the axle on a YJ with the factory wheelbase. No spring rates or tire/air specs, adding that info might help narrow down your issue.

I drive my stock leaf sprung YJ everyday 33 miles to work and back. Like you, I experience an “ok” ride.

Another YJ, 4 inch RE springs/spring under (unknown spring rates, but the numbers must be high based on the harsh ride) and 33’s with 24 lbs of air. On the street and offroad the ride is very rough which would line up with your wagon description.

However, another YJ, sprung over with waggy and longer XJ springs, an 8 inch stretch and 38’s rides so much smoother than my YJ on 4 inch SUA on 33s YJ. The YJ on 38s rides almost as smooth as my factory bone stock, 14k mile, TJ, if not just as smooth.

A lot of different variables effect overall ride smoothness/harshness. Wheelbase, sprung weight vs unsprung weight, sua, soa, spring length, spring rates, and vehicle weight among some others I’m sure.

Chris · Jun 29, 2019

Where is @mrblaine when you need him?

My guess is he’s purposely staying out of this one

mrblaine · Jun 29, 2019

Chris said:
Where is @mrblaine when you need him?

My guess is he’s purposely staying out of this one

You are correct.

MallCrawlOnTons · Jun 29, 2019

It’s been done on a tj. Looks clean too.

This looks perfect to me. Appears to be 37s or so.

mrblaine · Jun 29, 2019

Chris said:
Disclaimer: I don't know what I'm talking about here mostly. Just thinking out loud.

Correct again.

afmoto · Jun 29, 2019

MallCrawlOnTons said:
I’m guessing my last sentence in my post you quoted made it seem I was hammering Jerry and Chris. But I honestly wasn’t. I hate to see high post count people blurt out wrong info. In 2019 Jesse Haines, a dedicated fabricator and rock crawl competitor, ran leafs on a rig he built to race in KOH. What’s wrong with calling someone out who is wrong?

"Wrong"?? They're not "wrong", they're providing feedback to your question based on what they've personally OBSERVED, and you're behaving like some of the clowns on Pirate4x4. I enjoy this forum because most people here seem pretty cool and even when there are differences of opinion, it's done in a calm and respectful manner. You're the first one I've come across who posts like they should maybe be getting into forum combat on Pirate4x4. Good luck man, maybe you're just having a bad day, but this is a lousy thread in a generally fantastic forum and it's all because of your attitude.

jjvw · Jun 29, 2019

How well did Jessie do on his leafs at KOH?

FWiW, I'm not taking a side on the debate because my post count is too high. A well setup leaf can out perform a poorly done linked. The blanket statements don't work without some qualifications.

mrblaine · Jun 29, 2019

MallCrawlOnTons said:
Wow!!!! Shocked. Ever heard of Jesse Haines? Or his 2019 co driver Harry Wagner? Jerry should have with his high online forum activity. They used a leaf sprung rig in 2019 KOH but okay.

More hear say on the forums from the high post guys.

How far did they get before they broke it?

Sundowner · Jun 29, 2019

mrblaine said:
How far did they get before they broke it?

I don't keep up with KOH; how far did they get? How'd they break?

Sundowner · Jun 29, 2019

MallCrawlOnTons said:
It’s been done on a tj.

That would be a cheaper start than a CJ or YJ, then, since you already have a TJ. You can get a bit of money for the stock axles, and possibly a bit more for the transfer case and transmission: I'm not sure what all you have, but if you're going to play hard you're probably thinking about upgrades to the latter two pieces. You're also already somewhat familiar with the TJ platform, and this TJ in particular... so that would be another point in its favor; the CJ and YJ are quite different in a lot of ways, so there'd be a learning curve unless you're already familiar with them.

MallCrawlOnTons · Jun 29, 2019

jjvw said:
How well did Jessie do on his leafs at KOH?

FWiW, I'm not taking a side on the debate because my post count is too high. A well setup leaf can out perform a poorly done linked. The blanket statements don't work without some qualifications.

mrblaine said:
How far did they get before they broke it?

Sundowner said:
I don't keep up with KOH; how far did they get? How'd they break?

Jerry couldnt recall a competitive leaf sprung rig and Chris had never seen a leaf spring rig in a competition or KOH. I found one that raced in 2019 by a very well respected fabricator and competitor. I just opened their eyes. That’s all.

And he didn’t finish. Unknown reason why.

Fouledplugs · Jun 29, 2019

Jerry Bransford said:
Leaf springs on competition-level rock crawlers are so rare that I don't think I've ever seen one at any of the higher-end events I've been to. The competition-level rock crawlers I see in sanctioned rock crawling competitions are all running either coilovers or coil springs.

Can you run leaf springs and rock crawl? Of course, but leaf springs are at a disadvantage compared to coilovers or coil springs.

Chris said:
Granted I haven't been to KOH or anything, but has anyone ever seen leaf springs on an actual competitive rock crawler or KOH rig?

Why would you want to?

Ever heard of W.E. rock or KOH (EMC)?

Jerry Bransford · Jun 29, 2019

MallCrawlOnTons said:
Wow!!!! Shocked. Ever heard of Jesse Haines? Or his 2019 co driver Harry Wagner? Jerry should have with his high online forum activity. They used a leaf sprung rig in 2019 KOH but okay.

More hear say on the forums from the high post guys.

Yes I've heard of him but If he passed by any of the KOH check points I ran in a leaf spring vehicle, I missed it. He builds awesome vehicles but he builds far more with coil springs/coilovers than leafs.

And I hope you're not referring to that replica Jeep Mahindra made in India with leaf springs he built up and ran in the 2019 KOH? It was a DNF. Have you personally even ever been to a KOH? If you had, you'd know coil springs/coilovers are what those who make it to the podium are running.

And yes I know of Jesse Haines but he's more known for his coil spring builds.
All of these coil spring builds are from Jesse.

jjvw · Jun 29, 2019

MallCrawlOnTons said:
Jerry couldnt recall a competitive leaf sprung rig and Chris had never seen a leaf spring rig in a competition or KOH. I found one that raced in 2019 by a very well respected fabricator and competitor. I just opened their eyes. That’s all.

And he didn’t finish. Unknown reason why.

Do you know anything else about Jesse beyond what you learned in your Google search just now?

Fouledplugs · Jun 29, 2019

MallCrawlOnTons said:
Why would I? From what I read, it’s much cheaper and you can get just as much articulation out of them. I remember seeing a jk somewhere on leaf springs too. Can’t recall what his reasoning was though.

Getting flamed hard here. But I like almost all that Jeep has offered when it comes to Wranglers. I think leafs are really cool. They are “simple” yet require a different apprach to wheeling and rock crawling.

As previously pointed out, you are at a disadvantahe when crawling with leafs when comparing to coils/coilovers. Its also comparing apples to oranges.

Leafs are cool, there is some nostalgia for me, as thats what I grew up around.

mrblaine · Jun 29, 2019

MallCrawlOnTons said:
Jerry couldnt recall a competitive leaf sprung rig and Chris had never seen a leaf spring rig in a competition or KOH. I found one that raced in 2019 by a very well respected fabricator and competitor. I just opened their eyes. That’s all.

And he didn’t finish. Unknown reason why.

JH built that rig as a publicity stunt more or less. It would not be a rig he would build and race of his own volition. There would have to be external influences and serious ones to push him over into that sort of endeavor and they would not be without appropriate monetary reward. The other way to look at this? Not even Jesse with all of his talent and experience can get a leaf sprung rig over the course in KOH.

Sundowner · Jun 29, 2019

MallCrawlOnTons said:
I just opened their eyes. That’s all.

I would disagree with most of that, but it's honestly not worth the argument. I will, however, say this: it would not be prudent to use a singular example - the 2019 KOH competitor, in this case - as a basis or legitimization for a build; I don't think you're really doing that, but I think it's worth mentioning, nonetheless.

Fouledplugs · Jun 29, 2019

Chris said:
No one is telling you you can't do it.

I think we're just trying to figure out that given the choice between leaf springs and coil springs, why would you want to use leaf springs on a "rock crawler"?

Cheaper.

“Some of these aftermarket suspensions cost upwards of $10,000,” Jake says. “I have less than that in all of the modifications I have performed on my Jeep.” JKU owner on 40s with....leafs.

It may not be popular, but neither is maintaining the speed limit. People are going to do what others do weather it works or not. Its not flashy, no “King” stickers to put on it, and it’s not the latest and greatest.

A JKU on leafs, why? Because it’s different, it’s cool (IMO), and forces the driver to pick different lines off road. Most importantly, it was much more than likely a cheaper route to a JKU on one tons and 40’s.

mrblaine · Jun 29, 2019

jjvw said:
How well did Jessie do on his leafs at KOH?

FWiW, I'm not taking a side on the debate because my post count is too high. A well setup leaf can out perform a poorly done linked. The blanket statements don't work without some qualifications.

Before the youngster figures it out from all his googlefu, in the same year in the stock class that JH died in a less than stellar blaze of glory in a leaf sprung publicity stunt, the event was won by a Toyota on leaf springs, IIRC.

mrblaine · Jun 29, 2019

MallCrawlOnTons said:
Jerry couldnt recall a competitive leaf sprung rig and Chris had never seen a leaf spring rig in a competition or KOH. I found one that raced in 2019 by a very well respected fabricator and competitor. I just opened their eyes. That’s all.

And he didn’t finish. Unknown reason why.

In case, just in case you don't wind up putting 2 and 2 together and winding up with the right answer by reading between the lines, Jerry's comments are very likely based on standing at a checkpoint to slap stickers on rigs that go through for KOH 2019.

Anyone have a rock crawler?

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