Correct.
Your skid is 3.25" from the bottom of the frame and your drive shaft is at the bind point when the axle is hanging from the bottomed out shocks. 2" bumpstop extension is used.
Dave Kishpaugh's (Jeep West) geometry correction brackets are now available
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Correct.
Your skid is 3.25" from the bottom of the frame and your drive shaft is at the bind point when the axle is hanging from the bottomed out shocks. 2" bumpstop extension is used.
Here is an attempt at front geometry correction that ended up with 26" front and rear lower arms having stock uppers.
It's about the same as teraflex long arm, full traction, and skyjacker. Difference is, this has 2.5" more separation.
The passenger front upper was tipped inboard because it hit the frame.
Works well in a 10" travel range but the pinion angles start to get a little off.
It's about the same as teraflex long arm, full traction, and skyjacker. Difference is, this has 2.5" more separation.
The passenger front upper was tipped inboard because it hit the frame.
Works well in a 10" travel range but the pinion angles start to get a little off.
Whatever Dave.
Here is your geometry correction kit.
This is my Savvy mid arm.
We did this little climb twice. Same results each time. Tell me more about stability.
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gasiorv
I'm a new world samurai, and a redneck nonetheless
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gasiorv
I'm a new world samurai, and a redneck nonetheless
Supporting Member
Ride of the Month Winner
Just to throw this out there for someone who may come and read this in the future. Just another insight or opinion without any bias.
Another benefit of outboarding your shocks that doesn't typically get mentioned is that it allows you to raise the lower (axle side) mount while not giving up (actually gaining) travel. If you do any wheeling in rocks, take a look at your stock axle side shock mounts and you will see they take a beating. For someone like me who wheels there jeep 90% of the time in rocks (boulder fields) with very little road driving and all road driving at low speeds, this to me is the real benefit.
Getting the rear LCA flatter and higher on the axle side will also allow you to trim the LCA axle side bracket to give a little more clearance in the rocks. That may or may not be important to you depending on what type of wheeling you do and whether or not you are getting hung up on or beating up your LCA brackets. But as previously stated, if you raise the axle side LCA you need to raise the upper side to maintain separation, so you have to weigh if this little bit of clearance is beneficial to you and worth the effort (as stated in many places there is also other benefits to geometry correction, but I am just focused on clearance with this post).
Keep in mind what type of wheeling you are going to be doing and what you are trying to correct. Moab is not a good representation of the wheeling that I typically do, it is an awesome place and a must do, but it is not boulder fields that you have to pick your line through and be aware of your diff, skid, rocker, and bracket locations at all times. Also, a lot of discussion on road handling and standing the wheel in turns or taking turns at 75mph, but if the only driving you do on the road is from the trailer to the trail head with unbalanced tires at 8psi, does that really matter. Good road characteristics are important for safety and good road characteristics typically relate to good off road characteristics, but I drove from my VRBO in Moab to every trailhead with 8psi in my tires doing a max speed of 50mph and had a blast!! Vice versa, if you rarely take your jeep off road and use it as a daily driver then road characteristics should be priority one and you should determine if your jeep is currently not performing up to your expectations on the road, why not, and what will correct that issue.
Another benefit of outboarding your shocks that doesn't typically get mentioned is that it allows you to raise the lower (axle side) mount while not giving up (actually gaining) travel. If you do any wheeling in rocks, take a look at your stock axle side shock mounts and you will see they take a beating. For someone like me who wheels there jeep 90% of the time in rocks (boulder fields) with very little road driving and all road driving at low speeds, this to me is the real benefit.
Getting the rear LCA flatter and higher on the axle side will also allow you to trim the LCA axle side bracket to give a little more clearance in the rocks. That may or may not be important to you depending on what type of wheeling you do and whether or not you are getting hung up on or beating up your LCA brackets. But as previously stated, if you raise the axle side LCA you need to raise the upper side to maintain separation, so you have to weigh if this little bit of clearance is beneficial to you and worth the effort (as stated in many places there is also other benefits to geometry correction, but I am just focused on clearance with this post).
Keep in mind what type of wheeling you are going to be doing and what you are trying to correct. Moab is not a good representation of the wheeling that I typically do, it is an awesome place and a must do, but it is not boulder fields that you have to pick your line through and be aware of your diff, skid, rocker, and bracket locations at all times. Also, a lot of discussion on road handling and standing the wheel in turns or taking turns at 75mph, but if the only driving you do on the road is from the trailer to the trail head with unbalanced tires at 8psi, does that really matter. Good road characteristics are important for safety and good road characteristics typically relate to good off road characteristics, but I drove from my VRBO in Moab to every trailhead with 8psi in my tires doing a max speed of 50mph and had a blast!! Vice versa, if you rarely take your jeep off road and use it as a daily driver then road characteristics should be priority one and you should determine if your jeep is currently not performing up to your expectations on the road, why not, and what will correct that issue.
Are these rigs identical other than the suspension? Tires? Weight? Etc
The first video reminded me of the first time my son's took his K-30 truck out to wheel and he didn't have any rear shock absorbers installed (waiting to be delivered) Bouncy!
I was told that shocks can tame wheel hop. jjvw, your video show a little bounce, but not as much as starkey 480. Tuned Fox vs 5000x might make a difference?
Not at all. I'm asking if the shocks could be the reason one had hop and the other had bob.
For an apples to apples comparison, they should be running the same shocks and the same driver / technique.
add: gearing, transfer case, transmission all same?
I’m all for transparency and comparison because I think it’s fun to see. But let’s lay out all the factors first. I can’t remember how many times either of us failed but I looked back and I have exactly 2 videos of myself failing and 2 videos of @jjvw failing.
Josh’s rig absolutely climbed smoother on the successful attempt. My ego plays zero role in this but I enjoy fairness and transparancy.
Other factors to consider that play into a climb other than control arm angles.
Transfercase and wheel speed- Josh has a 241 I have a 231
Shocks- Josh has tuned fox 12s. I have rancho 5000x
Line- Josh appears to be ever so slightly further left of the big bump and an inch is a mile on an obstacle like that.
Driver skill- Josh may have chosen a better amount of throttle than I did.
Tires- ours were the same
Wheelbase - not sure what mine is but I know Josh has done some minor stretching on his.
I’m not arguing that Josh's rig didn’t climb smoother. Rather that it also failed a few times, there are other factors at play, and finally that the obstacle was an absolute fucking monster and kudos to all those that attempted it. @rasband is the only one that day in my opinion that absolutely walked right up first try. It dropped my jaw lol
Josh’s rig absolutely climbed smoother on the successful attempt. My ego plays zero role in this but I enjoy fairness and transparancy.
Other factors to consider that play into a climb other than control arm angles.
Transfercase and wheel speed- Josh has a 241 I have a 231
Shocks- Josh has tuned fox 12s. I have rancho 5000x
Line- Josh appears to be ever so slightly further left of the big bump and an inch is a mile on an obstacle like that.
Driver skill- Josh may have chosen a better amount of throttle than I did.
Tires- ours were the same
Wheelbase - not sure what mine is but I know Josh has done some minor stretching on his.
I’m not arguing that Josh's rig didn’t climb smoother. Rather that it also failed a few times, there are other factors at play, and finally that the obstacle was an absolute fucking monster and kudos to all those that attempted it. @rasband is the only one that day in my opinion that absolutely walked right up first try. It dropped my jaw lol
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True. On the record though I watched him wheel all day and he’s a hell of a driver.
Not disputing that. Just that the slightest line change combined with that wheelbase can mean the difference between a perfect climb and a perfect fail.
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