I've been framed

[Uncommon]

So you went and inspected the jeep? This wasn’t bought site unseen? Correct? How could legal action take place if you willingly bought said jeep and drove it off the lot? Not choosing sides just don’t want to give you false hope in thinking this would actually stand a chance in the court of law. Def sucks that you bought a roached frame, but the price was the price of a tj with a roached frame. Not sure how this could fall back on the dealer. Dealers are shady as hell and if the buyer doesn’t know what to look for that’s not exactly their fault. It’s a used vehicle sold as is.

I'm not sure you could have legal recourse. IF it was deemed unsafe by a certified mechanic, there might be some liability, but I'm not sure of that, either. I looked at it on a day it was pouring down rain. I didn't inspect it in the manner that it should have been done. I am not free from blame on this transaction either. I trusted what they said. I drove it and it ran great and made a choice.

It's like Chris just said, if they sold a dangerous vehicle that was deemed unsafe by a disinterested third party, then there may be something to that. I have no idea what the laws are in that regard.

 

[Chris]

I don’t think it’s illegal to sell a vechicle like this. @Squatch found a super nice black TJR for dirt cheap a couple months back...why was it dirt cheap...the frame was shot. It’s jot illegal for them to do this. As a buyer you have to do your homework in what your buying. Run the carfax etc...look at the frame. That’s blatantly obvious it’s toast. It’s a shame it wasn’t noticed, but I would think from 10ft away that would have been obvious.

It may depend on the state, as laws are different from state-to-state.

I'd be willing to bet you dollars to donuts that if you got enough third party shops to sign off on whether or not they think that frame is safe or not, then took it to a good attorney, you could win a case. And any reputable dealer would much rather settle a case like that out of court, I can guarantee you that.

It's much easier for them to just buy it back as oppose to deal with legal fees, bad reviews, etc.

There is a big difference between rust on the frame and complete and total rot, which this is.

No good dealer would buy a vehicle like that to begin with. Ask Cross if they would even take a vehicle like that in on trade. I'm guessing they wouldn't unless they factored in the price of replacing the entire frame before they sold it.

Again, there's a difference in selling you a vehicle with a bad transmission versus selling you a vehicle that could potentially be a threat to your life as well as others.

What happens if that frame snaps in half going 65mph down the freeway?

 

[Starrs]

It may depend on the state, as laws are different from state-to-state.

I'd be willing to bet you dollars to donuts that if you got enough third party shops to sign off on whether or not they think that frame is safe or not, then took it to a good attorney, you could win a case. And any reputable dealer would much rather settle a case like that out of court, I can guarantee you that.

It's much easier for them to just buy it back as oppose to deal with legal fees, bad reviews, etc.

There is a big difference between rust on the frame and complete and total rot, which this is.

No good dealer would buy a vehicle like that to begin with. Ask Cross if they would even take a vehicle like that in on trade. I'm guessing they wouldn't unless they factored in the price of replacing the entire frame before they sold it.

Again, there's a difference in selling you a vehicle with a bad transmission versus selling you a vehicle that could potentially be a threat to your life as well as others.

What happens if that frame snaps in half going 65mph down the freeway?

I think he got this dirt cheap...maybe frame rot was factored in? Shame it happened, but I still don’t see anything to gain from legal action except money lost in legal fees plus the money that will need to be spent on a new frame.

 

[Powdermonkey]

A reputable dealer would NOT put the Jeep on their lot plan and simple. If they take something like that on trade in it goes to auction.

 

[Starrs]

A reputable dealer would NOT put the Jeep on their lot plan and simple. If they take something like that on trade in it goes to auction.

I agree that it’s messed up they would sell it, but I don’t think it’s agianst the law.

 

[bromel]

Kentucky is known for great bourbon, but not great consumer-protection laws. In another state the OP might have more recourse, but selling a vehicle "as is" in Kentucky I think essentially absolves the dealership of any future liability—that is, as long as you were provided literature explaining the Jeep was "as is." Was there a buyer's guide posted on the window, or something like that? That might be your only recourse, if the dealership was sloppy.

Hopefully you can avoid that by just talking with the dealer. If they care about their reputation, they'll take the Jeep back.

 

[Powdermonkey]

I agree that it’s messed up they would sell it, but I don’t think it’s agianst the law.

That I don’t know. If he runs into problems tomorrow with them it might be as simple as having an attorney sending a letter. Not sure what you paid for the Jeep but I would think you could spend 4$-500 dollars for the letter.

 

[Squatch]

I don’t think it’s illegal to sell a vechicle like this. @Squatch found a super nice black TJR for dirt cheap a couple months back...why was it dirt cheap...the frame was shot. It’s jot illegal for them to do this. As a buyer you have to do your homework in what your buying. Run the carfax etc...look at the frame. That’s blatantly obvious it’s toast. It’s a shame it wasn’t noticed, but I would think from 10ft away that would have been obvious.

Yep. And @Clint Rivera bought it and is turning it into something special. Check out his build thread "Ruby: The story of a Jersey girl". That frame was way too rough for me, but Clint has talent, and is dealing with it! :thumbsup:

 

[Starrs]

Kentucky is known for great bourbon, but not great consumer-protection laws. In another state the OP might have more recourse, but selling a vehicle "as is" in Kentucky I think essentially absolves the dealership of any future liability—that is, as long as you were provided literature explaining the Jeep was "as is." Was there a buyer's guide posted on the window, or something like that? That might be your only recourse, if the dealership was sloppy.

Hopefully you can avoid that by just talking with the dealer. If they care about their reputation, they'll take the Jeep back.

All the used vehicles I’ve bought have the “as is” paper on the windshield. Totally legit, and as the buyer you are buying an as is vehicle.

 

[bromel]

All the used vehicles I’ve bought have the “as is” paper on the windshield. Totally legit, and as the buyer you are buying an as is vehicle.

My point is, from a legal standpoint, if he was not provided "as is" paperwork, that might be his only recourse. I agree that if the paperwork were provided, he's probably SOL. But a dealer shady enough to sell that rust bucket is shady enough to "forget" the paperwork.

The point of this thread is to brainstorm ways for OP to get his money back, not shame him.

 

[Starrs]

My point is, from a legal standpoint, if he was not provided "as is" paperwork, that might be his only recourse. I agree that if the paperwork were provided, he's probably SOL. But a dealer shady enough to sell that rust bucket is shady enough to "forget" the paperwork.

The point of this thread is to brainstorm ways for OP to get his money back, not shame him.

Not shaming the OP...I feel bad for him. I am trying to be honest and not get his hopes up. Telling him to seek legal advice is only going to cost him more money. There isn’t a case to be had here tho. It’s a used vehicle.

 

[Powdermonkey]

@Starrs I just did one quick search. The OP should do more research for Kentucky before spending more money but read that statement below. I also seen several other talking about “disclosing the damage”, although I would guess they are mostly talking about accidents, but both make the vehicle unsafe to be on public highways.

 

[Starrs]

@Starrs I just did one quick search. The OP should do more research for Kentucky before spending more money but read that statement below. I also seen several other talking about “disclosing the damage”, although I would guess they are mostly talking about accidents, but both make the vehicle unsafe to be on public highways.
View attachment 74676

We shall see. Hope it works out for the OP if he chooses to go down this path.

 

[tworley]

We shall see. Hope it works out for the OP if he chooses to go down this path.

Fingers crossed for him. Not to be rude but its hard to believe someone looked at this frame and thought "this looks 'OK' enough to buy".

We bought a VW jetta for my wife back in 2016, had 114k on it. Everything was great during the test drive. Not a week later the transmission shit itself. The dealership we bought it from actually bought it back from us just shy of what we paid for. We bought it for 5k and they bought it back at 3.5k, and put her in a brand new lease jetta at $95/mon. They went above and beyond for us. So...maybe theres a slight chance for the OP.

 

[Chris]

We bought it for 5k and they bought it back at 3.5k, and put her in a brand new lease jetta at $95/mon. They went above and beyond for us. So...maybe theres a slight chance for the OP.

Makes sense. They get cost on parts, plus the labor for them is cheap, so putting a new transmission in it was probably cheap and easy, then they can turn around and sell it.

However, that was a nice thing for them to to do, since it saved you guys a lot of money in the end.

This is what I mean though. Any standup dealer would take care of something like this and at least work something out with you. Only some hole in the wall used car lot would just tell you to go kick dirt.

 

[tworley]

Makes sense. They get cost on parts, plus the labor for them is cheap, so putting a new transmission in it was probably cheap and easy, then they can turn around and sell it.

However, that was a nice thing for them to to do, since it saved you guys a lot of money in the end.

This is what I mean though. Any standup dealer would take care of something like this and at least work something out with you. Only some hole in the wall used car lot would just tell you to go kick dirt.

We lost a little, obviously. But that is the risk you take when you buy something used and with that amount of mileage. Obviously nobody knew the transmission was going to go bad that soon. They just sent it to the auction block I think. We've bought a few cars from them (Larry H. Miller (multiple dealerships around here)).

And yes, any corner lot would probably say "sucks to be you, I can sell you this other one if you want".

 

[Chris]

We lost a little, obviously. But that is the risk you take when you buy something used and with that amount of mileage. Obviously nobody knew the transmission was going to go bad that soon. They just sent it to the auction block I think. We've bought a few cars from them (Larry H. Miller (multiple dealerships around here)).

And yes, any corner lot would probably say "sucks to be you, I can sell you this other one if you want".

Yeah, and I understand that entirely. And if it was something like a transmission, I don't think it would be as big of a deal.

But seeing the condition of this frame, the first thing I think of is how this is actually an issue of safety.

They must not have inspected this when they took it in, because no experienced technician would sign-off on this passing an inspection.

Nevertheless, I guess this just goes to show that you have to be really careful when buying used vehicles, especially if you don't know what to look for.

 

[Uncommon]

Update:

Talked to the dealer this week and he felt genuinely bad. Said he hires a man to inspect all the cars he buys and this guy was just terrible, and ultimately. fired him.

He wanted to make it right and gave me the purchase price that I paid less taxes. I felt he was as fair as he could be with me and feel very fortunate to make it out of this transaction like I did.

Thank you for all the help and advice.

 

[bromel]

Hey, that's really great to hear. Congrats. You learned all the hard lessons about TJ ownership without paying the price Good luck on your TJ-buying journey and be sure to keep posting possible purchases on the forum.

 

[Paul Land]

60 Minutes did a story on sleazy used car salesman. The 2 salesman said " there goes another Whoop-Dee.