Gen III Hemi Swap into TJ Reference Guide & Swap Info

[Wildman]

https://www.facebook.com/groups/960348134340101/user/100063618429697/

Smith Innovation is proud to bring to market the first gear drive for the Gen3 hemi platform. This system is a single idler style spur gear setup and shares the same DNA as our billet timing chain upper pulley as the sensor cage is all one piece and we are again utilizing a roller thrust bearing.
These sets remove the chain that is great, but will stretch over time and also removes the tensioner and plastic guide. You have never experienced rock steady timing like a never wear gear drive provides. Sets will ship with improved hardware and a lower gear that allows for +\-6 degrees of cam advance or retard. Now for the best part, this drive fits under all timing covers and all OEM style oil pumps and requires no modifications to the block. It’s a bolt on system that will be extremely easy to install and set cam timing.

 

[lBasket]

https://www.facebook.com/groups/960348134340101/user/100063618429697/

Smith Innovation is proud to bring to market the first gear drive for the Gen3 hemi platform. This system is a single idler style spur gear setup and shares the same DNA as our billet timing chain upper pulley as the sensor cage is all one piece and we are again utilizing a roller thrust bearing.
These sets remove the chain that is great, but will stretch over time and also removes the tensioner and plastic guide. You have never experienced rock steady timing like a never wear gear drive provides. Sets will ship with improved hardware and a lower gear that allows for +\-6 degrees of cam advance or retard. Now for the best part, this drive fits under all timing covers and all OEM style oil pumps and requires no modifications to the block. It’s a bolt on system that will be extremely easy to install and set cam timing.

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Is it loud

 

[Wildman]

Is it loud

If they are straight cut gears, then most likely YES.... But if you've ever heard a SBC running timing gears it sounds COOL as HELL...

 

[pc1p]

I never cared for gear-driven timing sets... they're loud AF and get annoying after a while. On a blown/juiced strip car, sure, no problem, but on a daily driver - and in particular something like a Jeep that already has enough whines, whirs, and whistles, I'll stick to a good ol' fashioned timing chain

 

[Wildman]

I never cared for gear-driven timing sets... they're loud AF and get annoying after a while. On a blown/juiced strip car, sure, no problem, but on a daily driver - and in particular something like a Jeep that already has enough whines, whirs, and whistles, I'll stick to a good ol' fashioned timing chain

I've only been in one that was a hot rod and only for about an hour so I can't say what it'd be like all day on the trail. But it's still cool that they are starting to make things for the Hemi. Just like the 8HP transmission the more things we have to choose from IMO the better.

 

[Wildman]

Not a bad YT video on the 8HP70 other than he concentrates mostly on the Turbolamik. But he covers a lot of the WHY it's a good swap. Even if he's talking about it behind a LS engine.

 

[pc1p]

Not a bad YT video on the 8HP70 other than he concentrates mostly on the Turbolamik. But he covers a lot of the WHY it's a good swap. Even if he's talking about it behind a LS engine.

There's really no reason NOT to run the 8HP70 really... some people worry about the ability to slap into R if you're worried about a roll over, but I think there are some tuners working on that update now.

 

[Wildman]

There's really no reason NOT to run the 8HP70 really... some people worry about the ability to slap into R if you're worried about a roll over, but I think there are some tuners working on that update now.

I'm just waiting to get all the other bugs worked out right now on my TJ plus it's a matter of funds... If I want to make this trip it'll have to wait...

Ryan from FRP said he can tune that issue out. It's something in the safety of the transmission but it can be fixed.

 

[pc1p]

I'm just waiting to get all the other bugs worked out right now on my TJ plus it's a matter of funds... If I want to make this trip it'll have to wait...

Ryan from FRP said he can tune that issue out. It's something in the safety of the transmission but it can be fixed.

I heard he's working on it (Sound German too) but have not seen anyone actually confirm.

 

[Wildman]

I heard he's working on it (Sound German too) but have not seen anyone actually confirm.

I was talking to him (Ryan from FRP & Russel from Sound German) about it before I started collecting parts. I wanted to confirm that 1) It was an issue or not 2) That there was a work around for it.
Figured why buy the parts to do the swap if this was really an issue and couldn't be fixed. Not that I've ever needed to slam my rig into reverse but that one time I need to and couldn't would be my undoing..

From Russel: The only thing that I have made any adjustment on this issue is the PRND thresholds based on speed that lock you out. Actual rate of engagement I never done anything with. That would require a lot of digging to find those tables.

This is from AMW4x4: The solution is to move away from the factory shifter, we are just working on the data to make this happen.

Todd @ JSS: Yes that is a save the transmission thing, now it could be tuned out.. I would talk to Flying Ryan he might have a tune..

This from a random FB poster: tuning out the protection that’s causing the false neutral. Others have complained of the same issue.

 

[pc1p]

@Wildman, yes, this is what I've heard and seen too, though I have not seen anything from AMW or others suggesting the shifter needs to be replaced.

The big question that remains is "what is a safe speed to override to?", meaning at what speed moving forward is it safe to allow for the quick "R" shift. I believe the 8HP70 in most Mopar vehicles is 5 mph. I've seen some overrides pushed up to 8 mph. I think for most rock crawlers that's probably a good speed. For bouncers or guys where wheel speed may need to be a little higher, it is probably close. I know there are other considerations because of the "false neutral" and where you could possibly stall the engine, so it's not just a matter of raising the lockout speed. Seems like with the rising popularity, someone will figure it out quick though, so I'm not worried. Even without the future fix, I would never run a 545RFE on a rig - I'd just build a bigger cage if needed haha...

 

[Wildman]

@Wildman, yes, this is what I've heard and seen too, though I have not seen anything from AMW or others suggesting the shifter needs to be replaced.

The big question that remains is "what is a safe speed to override to?", meaning at what speed moving forward is it safe to allow for the quick "R" shift. I believe the 8HP70 in most Mopar vehicles is 5 mph. I've seen some overrides pushed up to 8 mph. I think for most rock crawlers that's probably a good speed. For bouncers or guys where wheel speed may need to be a little higher, it is probably close. I know there are other considerations because of the "false neutral" and where you could possibly stall the engine, so it's not just a matter of raising the lockout speed. Seems like with the rising popularity, someone will figure it out quick though, so I'm not worried. Even without the future fix, I would never run a 545RFE on a rig - I'd just build a bigger cage if needed haha...

I'll agree that I'm not too worried about it at this point after talking with a ton of people who have the 8HP in their rigs.. And I'd LOVE to do the 8HP swap prior to going on my trip but it's not in the cards right now due to a lack of funds... Because I'd need to have tuning done by FRP before leaving and that takes 4 credits from HP plus the tuning fee from FRP.

From some feed back from another FB member who had the stock shifter mounted on his GR center console and them his frustration with it not working well I've got this shifter coming for mine. He'd also swapped to one and said it works well for our application. That Black lever on the right is a Park lockout so you can slam it from Drive to Reverse and not hit Park instead.

I've reached out to AWM also about what shifter they're using but haven't heard back from them.

Edit: And to be honest if I'd known more about the 8HP70 two years ago when I'd started the Hemi swap I would have gone that route then instead of slapping a 545RFE back into the Jeep. But Sound German was just coming out with his harness and everything so it was all pretty new or at least I wasn't finding out much info until after I'd already done the swap.

 

[Hammer_c]

Large circle ports on the shorties. The circle ports are larger than the d-ports so they won’t restrict flow and they still use the factory SRT gasket. They seal up nice and I haven't had any issues with leaks or flow.

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Update: Don’t use these as the welds cracked and had me chasing misfires. Spent way too much time fixing their welds and re-welded 90% of what Holley did. Finally got exhausted fixing their welds and built my own headers. Exhaust was fully supported with bellows and no stress on them.