Front lockouts or Yukon spin free hubs discussion

[mrblaine]

My current LJ tire/wheel setup, with 35's and beadlocks, weighs in at 107 pounds each. While I'm light on the skinny pedal, I can't help but worry that I'm pushing the limits for the small hub kit (YA WU-07).

FWIW, I have a small kit on the TJ, running a 31" tire, that has been wheeled in very tough conditions and proven to be ultra reliable. It however is much smaller and lighter, with no beadlocks.

Since a "next" purchase is a BBK, I need to make a decision about whether to stick with the small hub kit or go with the larger YA WU-08 kit. Am I overthinking this or is there merit to my concern?

Merit is based upon what you perceive as the weakest most failure prone link.
U-joints are the same
Inner shafts can be the same, both 30 spline.
Bearings, seals, spindle nuts, spindles are the "same" for all intents and purposes.
That leaves the stub shafts and the locking hubs.
08 Hardcore hubs are far stronger.
08 stubs are stronger.
Question remains as to whether the 08 stub will fail before or after the u-joint. The 07 stub will typically fail at roughly the same time as the joint, but not always. Probably depends on steering angle.

 

[Irun]

Merit is based upon what you perceive as the weakest most failure prone link.
U-joints are the same
Inner shafts can be the same, both 30 spline.
Bearings, seals, spindle nuts, spindles are the "same" for all intents and purposes.
That leaves the stub shafts and the locking hubs.
08 Hardcore hubs are far stronger.
08 stubs are stronger.
Question remains as to whether the 08 stub will fail before or after the u-joint. The 07 stub will typically fail at roughly the same time as the joint, but not always. Probably depends on steering angle.

Looking at the supplied 07 stub shafts, my guess was they'd be one of the weaker links. Having busted u joints before, without a hub kit, it's not always just the u joint that gets taken out. In one of my cases, a stub shaft ear was broken. In another, an ear was distorted. Since I've not broken a 07 stub shaft, I'm wondering if the stub shaft breaking would also take out the hub. At that point it gets expensive to repair.

 

[Mr. Bills]

My current LJ tire/wheel setup, with 35's and beadlocks, weighs in at 107 pounds each. While I'm light on the skinny pedal, I can't help but worry that I'm pushing the limits for the small hub kit (YA WU-07).

. . . I need to make a decision about whether to stick with the small hub kit or go with the larger YA WU-08 kit. Am I overthinking this or is there merit to my concern?

My rear chromoly axle shafts were already drilled for the 5x5.5 lug pattern and I was able to sell my 5x4.5 wheels for a decent price, so I opted for the larger and stronger YA-WU-08 hubs, kept my existing 35" tires mounted on new 16x8 5x5.5 wheels with 4" backspace, and installed Black Magic 16" brakes at the same time.

One of the hub kits I ruled out used AVM hubs made in Brasil, which received mixed reviews and were sold with the admonition that they were suitable for tires 33" and smaller. It is my understanding that the same or similar AVM hubs are currently supplied with the YA-WU-07 kit.

@mrblaine will know whether the AVM hubs in the YAS-WU-07 kit are up to the task for your application. I would avoid the smaller hubs just because they are AVM, but I will defer to @mrblaine's judgment and expert opinion.

.

 

[mrblaine]

Looking at the supplied 07 stub shafts, my guess was they'd be one of the weaker links. Having busted u joints before, without a hub kit, it's not always just the u joint that gets taken out. In one of my cases, a stub shaft ear was broken. In another, an ear was distorted. Since I've not broken a 07 stub shaft, I'm wondering if the stub shaft breaking would also take out the hub. At that point it gets expensive to repair.

Depends on where it breaks. If the yoke breaks, small penalty, if the shaft breaks inside the spindle, that rarely doesn't take out the spindle and then move the damage to the bearings etc. depending on how many times you turn the tire/shaft before you stop.

 

[mrblaine]

My rear chromoly axle shafts were already drilled for the 5x5.5 lug pattern and I was able to sell my 5x4.5 wheels for a decent price, so I opted for the larger and stronger YA-WU-08 hubs, kept my existing 35" tires mounted on new 16x8 5x5.5 wheels with 4" backspace, and installed Black Magic 16" brakes at the same time.

One of the hub kits I ruled out used AVM hubs made in Brasil, which received mixed reviews and were sold with the admonition that they were suitable for tires 33" and smaller. It is my understanding that the same or similar AVM hubs are currently supplied with the YA-WU-07 kit.

@mrblaine will know whether the AVM hubs in the YAS-WU-07 kit are up to the task for your application. I would avoid the smaller hubs just because they are AVM, but I will defer to @mrblaine's judgment and expert opinion.



View attachment 658550


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The AVM hubs in the 07 kit have steel or iron bodies. That is contrary to the Warn high pressure cast aluminum. In other words, the jury is still out and we don't know how strong they are relative to the Warn stuff. For all we know, body never breaks but the splined gears explode or strip.

 

[Strizzo]

I have also been thinking about this situation, as my plan is eventually for 35s, and I started looking at where one could get one or two spare AVM hubs. The only option appears to be an ebay listing with a price only a few dollars short of a whole new -07 yukon kit.

On the other hand I'm hesitant to go to the -08 kit because it seems that the only wheels available in 5x5.5 are 15 and 16", which seem to make the only option for tires load range E. I'd prefer to stick with C load range if I can help it, although I'm running load range E currently and the ride isn't as bad as I thought it would be.

 

[Irun]

@mrblaine will know whether the AVM hubs in the YAS-WU-07 kit are up to the task for your application. I would avoid the smaller hubs just because they are AVM, but I will defer to @mrblaine's judgment and expert opinion.

.

I had a spare small hub kit that was picked up used, as a backup for my TJ. Since the spare kit sat idle, with no damage over the last 3 wheeling seasons, I installed it on the LJ. My concern now is the uncertainty of the AVM hubs. At this point, I've got spare parts for everything except the spindle and hub. The biggest issue for me now is the newish 17" 5x4.5 wheels. Like I said before, I'm probably over thinking this. There are a number of folks here that wheel with the small hub kit and have no issues that I'm aware of.

 

[Unique Username]

I have also been thinking about this situation, as my plan is eventually for 35s, and I started looking at where one could get one or two spare AVM hubs. The only option appears to be an ebay listing with a price only a few dollars short of a whole new -07 yukon kit.

On the other hand I'm hesitant to go to the -08 kit because it seems that the only wheels available in 5x5.5 are 15 and 16", which seem to make the only option for tires load range E. I'd prefer to stick with C load range if I can help it, although I'm running load range E currently and the ride isn't as bad as I thought it would be.

You are not alone, just to much unknown. I took out a U-joint running 33s on my lat trip and the hub seems to have faired well, but I am also considering the removal of the 07 before stepping up the 35s and doing the BBK. Not having a spare is my main concern as it can shut down an entire trip should I need one.
Then Again, I have resorted my vibration issue and might just return to the OEM unit bearing. Then I sacrifice loosing the ability to unlock a hub to limp off a trail. All really come down to me needing an extra hub to push the limits.

 

[taylormade73]

I had a spare small hub kit that was picked up used, as a backup for my TJ. Since the spare kit sat idle, with no damage over the last 3 wheeling seasons, I installed it on the LJ. My concern now is the uncertainty of the AVM hubs. At this point, I've got spare parts for everything except the spindle and hub. The biggest issue for me now is the newish 17" 5x4.5 wheels. Like I said before, I'm probably over thinking this. There are a number of folks here that wheel with the small hub kit and have no issues that I'm aware of.

View attachment 658582

I am only speaking about my own experience regarding the strength of the small hub kit. I have been running it and 35’s for the past 5 years. They have held up to all my wheeling trips, 4-5 times a year as well as street driving for a total of 38k miles.

While I’m not a skinny pedal first driver, I use it quite often when crawling doesn’t work. I am not easy on my Jeep when wheeling. I bought spare hubs expecting the same weakness and resultant failure. Spares are still in the box 5 years later and all is well with the axles. Just one man’s experience.

 

[Irun]

I am only speaking about my own experience regarding the strength of the small hub kit. I have been running it and 35’s for the past 5 years. They have held up to all my wheeling trips, 4-5 times a year as well as street driving for a total of 38k miles.

While I’m not a skinny pedal first driver, I use it quite often when crawling doesn’t work. I am not easy on my Jeep when wheeling. I bought spare hubs expecting the same weakness and resultant failure. Spares are still in the box 5 years later and all is well with the axles. Just one man’s experience.

You know I appreciate your experience and this helps me stay focused. Thanks Jason!

 

[Apparition]

I am only speaking about my own experience regarding the strength of the small hub kit. I have been running it and 35’s for the past 5 years. They have held up to all my wheeling trips, 4-5 times a year as well as street driving for a total of 38k miles.

While I’m not a skinny pedal first driver, I use it quite often when crawling doesn’t work. I am not easy on my Jeep when wheeling. I bought spare hubs expecting the same weakness and resultant failure. Spares are still in the box 5 years later and all is well with the axles. Just one man’s experience.

Evidence

 

[lBasket]

Evidence

Holy moly

 

[Irun]

Evidence

I've wheeled with Jason, briefly, so I trust him!

 

[Apparition]

Holy moly

I think the onlookers realized the potential gravity of the situation more than he did.

 

[Apparition]

I've wheeled with Jason, briefly, so I trust him!

I just like posting that video.

 

[taylormade73]

I think the onlookers realized the potential gravity of the situation more than he did.

Indeed. Rear end slid around so quick I wanted to stay in it so the front tires continued to pull me up. Had I let off the gas…well, who knows.

 

[mrblaine]

I am only speaking about my own experience regarding the strength of the small hub kit. I have been running it and 35’s for the past 5 years. They have held up to all my wheeling trips, 4-5 times a year as well as street driving for a total of 38k miles.

While I’m not a skinny pedal first driver, I use it quite often when crawling doesn’t work. I am not easy on my Jeep when wheeling. I bought spare hubs expecting the same weakness and resultant failure. Spares are still in the box 5 years later and all is well with the axles. Just one man’s experience.

As a slightly different set of data points, we've been running the hub kits in JV since about 99 or so. We started using them because it was the only way to get high strength alloy axles since those with stubs for unit bearings were several years away from being introduced by Superior. As a stop gap, we made a few sets by having Jack at CTM send out Warn 5.5 stub shafts to get annealed, machine them into stubs for unit bearings, and then get them heat treated after. Cost prohibitive for sure, but not as prohibitive as a whole hub conversion.

It was typical to see or have a broken small hub during every run. If the 27 spline inners were in play, after a couple of hub breaks, it was up for debate whether the next break would be the u-joint or inner at the splines. What never failed was the 27 spline outer inside the spindle which we later came to appreciate the hard way.

This next part backs up the experiences from the rest of the wheeling world and shows how JV can skew your perspective. Due to so many failed hubs out there, I took a page from the hardcore book and developed a drive flange kit around the small hub conversion. I figured out how to build a steel body hub with a flange very cost effectively and had some 1018 drive flanges splined.

I did a few surveys on a few forums to gauge interest after they were done and we started testing. We learned 2 things. The first was almost no one else was tearing up the hubs so they had zero interest in some thing stronger. JV turned out to be more unique in that regard than any place else. The most painful thing we learned which led to the demise of the development program was I had turned a cheap and simple fix into something complicated and expensive. The failures took out the spindle and stub shaft every single time.

 

[Irun]

I just like posting that video.

There's certainly a bit of a pucker factor on that last part of the obstacle!

 

[Mike_H]

Been reading this thread and a few others. I have the opportunity to pick up a NOS Warn big hub kit (5 x 5.5). I believe it is an old Warn kit anyway. The pictures show a "flat spot" on the spindle, which appears unique to Yukon/Warn.

It may be an older Yukon kit when they were still using the Warn Locking Hubs. The shop that has it bought it from another shop in a "going out of business lot" so they don't have a ton of info He's asking a fairly reasonable price, compared to what they are selling for on Yukon's site right now.

I'm kinda on the fence. I've always wanted a hub kit, esp since my switch to auto. I'd like to have more caster, I have a Rubi with the auto, and I want to go deeper in gears. I've already got Vibs around 75 with 4.88's so I know I'm playing with fire going any deeper. I've not spent time trying to tune them out, but I also know I don't have the patience/stubborness to do so. I'll try a few times, but eventually will just get sick of it. I'm also VERY frustrated with wheel selection in 5 x 4.5 and 17" diameter.

The Free Spin kit fixes a lot of my concerns/frustrations...but it won't be a drop in plug and play. I have a 16" big brake kit and the Revolution Big joint (1350) front axles (which I'd rather not give up). The brake kit seems pretty straight forward. Unclear on the axle shafts. I don't know if the JK stub shaft gets used on this TJ kit, or do I need to pull the big joint and go with the "standard" 760 U-joint. Plus...Who knows what's actually IN this kit. It looks all there, but its already half assembled.

Does anyone have experience with free spin kits and the Revolution big joint Axles?

 

[mrblaine]

Been reading this thread and a few others. I have the opportunity to pick up a NOS Warn big hub kit (5 x 5.5). I believe it is an old Warn kit anyway. The pictures show a "flat spot" on the spindle, which appears unique to Yukon/Warn. View attachment 658823

It may be an older Yukon kit when they were still using the Warn Locking Hubs. The shop that has it bought it from another shop in a "going out of business lot" so they don't have a ton of info He's asking a fairly reasonable price, compared to what they are selling for on Yukon's site right now.

I'm kinda on the fence. I've always wanted a hub kit, esp since my switch to auto. I'd like to have more caster, I have a Rubi with the auto, and I want to go deeper in gears. I've already got Vibs around 75 with 4.88's so I know I'm playing with fire going any deeper. I've not spent time trying to tune them out, but I also know I don't have the patience/stubborness to do so. I'll try a few times, but eventually will just get sick of it. I'm also VERY frustrated with wheel selection in 5 x 4.5 and 17" diameter.

The Free Spin kit fixes a lot of my concerns/frustrations...but it won't be a drop in plug and play. I have a 16" big brake kit and the Revolution Big joint (1350) front axles (which I'd rather not give up). The brake kit seems pretty straight forward. Unclear on the axle shafts. I don't know if the JK stub shaft gets used on this TJ kit, or do I need to pull the big joint and go with the "standard" 760 U-joint. Plus...Who knows what's actually IN this kit. It looks all there, but its already half assembled.

Does anyone have experience with free spin kits and the Revolution big joint Axles?

I saw that for sale. Notice I did not buy it or try to. There is so much bizarreness going on there that I could not figure out what it is. The thick spacer between the back of the hub flange and face of rotor is strange.

The Warn/Yukon spindle flange where it bolts to the face of the knuckle is about .400" thick. That one looks to be 1.25" or so.

I can't get my head around the interface at the stub shaft slinger and how that is going to work on a TJ knuckle when it extends so far inside the knuckle.

There is a spot for an ABS sensor. I don't see a tone ring on the stubs. It is internal somehow?

Check the bolt circle to verify it is actually 5 on 5.5.

The bearing hub is unlike anything Warn/Yukon. It more resembles something from Solid.