Bestop Supertop fit, but I think it's the frame?

[freedom_in_4low]

grabbed a Supertop because I've decide I just prefer the framed top experience. I came from a Bestop Trektop NX (frameless or slantback as they call it now) that was purchased in 2021 and fit pretty much perfectly.

With the framed top, I'm struggling. It seems like either the header bow is too short, or the door surrounds are too long, as I can't get them both to latch in, in the right spot, at the same time. I noticed it first when I just had the frame on and hadn't put the fabric on yet. The header just seemed really far back, like half an inch back from sitting correctly on the seal, but I thought, maybe the fabric will take up more space than I expect.

Only way I got this close was by releasing the pin on the door surround. But once I did it, I couldn't get the pin back in.

You can see the little pinholes in the bracket are offset...those are centered around the hole for the latch pin.

When I lock the pin in first, this is the best I get for the windshield fit.

I've already tried loosening the door surround bolts and pushing the door surround forward to compress the foam. It helped but not enough. It seems not as bad in the center as on the edges, like the header isn't shaped right for the windshield frame. I considered it was the wrong one but it looks just like the header on my Trektop. I also considered swapping them out except I actually followed the instructions and used the included red loctite on the bow-to-header screws. Plus I need to sell the Trektop as it's in pristine condition and I don't want to pass a problem on to somebody.

Temperature isn't the issue, it's 95 outside and the top is in direct sunlight, according to my IR temperature gun the fabric is 148F. And the top isn't that tight, I'm confident the fabric is not the issue here.

Any ideas or do I need to make contact?

 

[freedom_in_4low]

Some additional photos.

 

[red02tj]

It’s possible your header is warped, undo the tailgate clips and all the inside connections so there is no tensions on the header and see if it will seal in the corners.

 

[Abendage]

I have had the same experience with the Supertop for my LJ, it fits horrible and now both of the side pins for the door surrounds that you have pictured have broken on mine and it’s 3 months old. It is by far the loosest fitting top I’ve had in my 27 years with TJ’s/LJ’s. The windows are so loose in the back that they flap enough to hit the bows at highway speeds, loud and annoying. I have the rear corner stiffeners in and the bows at the tightest position on the b-pillar. Also, the front fits loose enough even with the overhead support bar that the side flaps that clip into the door surrounds fall out at highway speeds. I’ve had enough with it and put my Rampage slant top back on.

It’s really a shame that Bestop quality has become what it has and no one else makes a frame top for the LJ’s. I have a TJ too, with a cheapo Sierra Off-road top and it fits beautifully. Nice and taught, quiet, windows go in easy, no corner stiffeners required. The LJ Supertop looks like a poorly made bed with wrinkles and sagging all over the place.

 

[freedom_in_4low]

I have had the same experience with the Supertop for my LJ, it fits horrible and now both of the side pins for the door surrounds that you have pictured have broken on mine and it’s 3 months old. It is by far the loosest fitting top I’ve had in my 27 years with TJ’s/LJ’s. The windows are so loose in the back that they flap enough to hit the bows at highway speeds, loud and annoying. I have the rear corner stiffeners in and the bows at the tightest position on the b-pillar. Also, the front fits loose enough even with the overhead support bar that the side flaps that clip into the door surrounds fall out at highway speeds. I’ve had enough with it and put my Rampage slant top back on.

It’s really a shame that Bestop quality has become what it has and no one else makes a frame top for the LJ’s. I have a TJ too, with a cheapo Sierra Off-road top and it fits beautifully. Nice and taught, quiet, windows go in easy, no corner stiffeners required. The LJ Supertop looks like a poorly made bed with wrinkles and sagging all over the place.

Man that's really disappointing. I haven't even put the windows on but if it's that crappy it'll go back in the box and sent back. My frameless works just fine for the most part, I won't settle for a worse experience.

 

[freedom_in_4low]

It’s possible your header is warped, undo the tailgate clips and all the inside connections so there is no tensions on the header and see if it will seal in the corners.

Is that something that fixes itself by spending some time installed? The possibility occurred to me so Ive kept it clamped and thought I'd take another stab at it today before I put the windows on.

 

[Abendage]

Man that's really disappointing. I haven't even put the windows on but if it's that crappy it'll go back in the box and sent back. My frameless works just fine for the most part, I won't settle for a worse experience.

The difference might be that my TJ has a factory frame with new fabric and the LJ has Bestop’s factory replacement frame, but I’m not happy with any of it. The bow with the “C”s on it that are supposed to cradle the main frame also doesn’t fit. It’s about 1/2” too narrow or the main frame is 1/2” too wide. The whole thing is janky. The only time I’ll use it is in a trip were the slant back won’t work. I have a trunk in the rear and if I put a cooler on top of it I can’t use the rear window on my slant back. I got the whole setup on sale for less than $1,000, but I wouldn’t buy it again if I knew it would fit this way.

 

[freedom_in_4low]

The bow with the “C”s on it that are supposed to cradle the main frame also doesn’t fit. It’s about 1/2” too narrow or the main frame is 1/2” too wide.

Same with mine.

The whole thing is janky. The only time I’ll use it is in a trip were the slant back won’t work. I have a trunk in the rear and if I put a cooler on top of it I can’t use the rear window on my slant back. I got the whole setup on sale for less than $1,000, but I wouldn’t buy it again if I knew it would fit this way.

I got it on sale but $1250 is too much for this level of quality and I'm not gonna keep two soft tops. My main gripe with the frameless is the windows including the rear corners makes them too long to fit nicely in a window roll which means it's too much of a hassle to bring the roll with me. I also don't like how the front section flaps if I have the windows on but the front windows open. It forces me to be all or nothing, either totally sealed up or totally open. I thought a framed top might better deal with that issue but my optimism is fading.

 

[red02tj]

Is that something that fixes itself by spending some time installed? The possibility occurred to me so Ive kept it clamped and thought I'd take another stab at it today before I put the windows on.

Doubtful, and it shouldn’t be an issue if it’s new, but it’s a good warranty claim.
@Crystal@Bestop

 

[Bobbycat83]

Doubtful, and it shouldn’t be an issue if it’s new, but it’s a good warranty claim.
@Crystal@Bestop

I think it’s not a matter of warranty , all I read from bestop lately is shit, shity fitments ,headers that don’t fit, bad quality zippers that get broken in a month , they have lower quality long time ago and even If the warranty covers you they are going to ship you same shit

It’s a pity I would love to buy an old bestop when they where glorious as the oem, but… now is not

 

[freedom_in_4low]

It’s possible your header is warped, undo the tailgate clips and all the inside connections so there is no tension on the header and see if it will seal in the corners.

Closes maybe a little bit, but I can still put a finger in the gap.

and I can see daylight from inside.

And there's basically zero hope of latching the door surround pin.

This is how the front bow wants to sit.

And with everything together, the back end wants to sit offset to the driver's side.

This thing fits wrong in so many ways I can't make out if there's one single piece that's out of spec or the whole thing is junk.

They sell the frame for $730...if this is as good as they get, it's bordering on criminal. There's not $200 worth of quality here.

Just entered a warranty request.

 

[red02tj]

Closes maybe a little bit, but I can still put a finger in the gap.
View attachment 635955
and I can see daylight from inside.
View attachment 635954

And there's basically zero hope of latching the door surround pin.
View attachment 635956

This is how the front bow wants to sit.

View attachment 635961

And with everything together, the back end wants to sit offset to the driver's side.
View attachment 635968

View attachment 635969

This thing fits wrong in so many ways I can't make out if there's one single piece that's out of spec or the whole thing is junk.

They sell the frame for $730...if this is as good as they get, it's bordering on criminal. There's not $200 worth of quality here.

Just entered a warranty request.

Going to PM you…

 

[freedom_in_4low]

I had to put the windows on to get pictures required by bestops warranty policy, so here's some more disappointment.

Rear window really loose with diagonal ripples. They mostly straighten out if I push the frame toward the passenger side but it's still baggy. Side windows aren't much better. Took it for a drive and they flap enough to constantly slap the bows if I don't have the fan on full speed outside air.

You can see by the way the fabric behaves at the bottom edge that it's not taut.

The header gap seems normal between the clamps but grows quickly toward the outside. I can see daylight and it whistles at interstate speed. I can even feel air if I put my hand up there while driving.

Another shot of the back window but this one highlights the way the seam between the top panel and rear panel sits on top of the bow on the passenger side but rolls down toward the back of the bow on the driver side due to the asymmetry in the frame.

I don't think I'm being nit picky here. I distinctly remember the factory top (on my other LJ) still being tighter and better fit and better functioning at 7 years out of the factory than this is out of the box.

 

[Abendage]

Looks familiar, I probably should submit a warranty claim on mine too, I’ll be interested to see where you get. I don’t think you’re being nit-picky either, I’m pretty dissatisfied as well.

 

[DougyintheBushies]

My new Bestop Pavement Ends top is super loose and I liked the Smittybuilt top I replaced better.

 

[DougyintheBushies]

The rear window clips barely latch. I was hoping it would shrink up a bit in the sun but not happening.

Seems like the top fits decent at the header but I’m getting water in passenger floorboard area so I wonder if it’s letting water in.I’ve cleaned the cowl drain.

 

[freedom_in_4low]

The rear window clips barely latch. I was hoping it would shrink up a bit in the sun but not happening.View attachment 636119
Seems like the top fits decent at the header but I’m getting water in passenger floorboard area so I wonder if it’s letting water in.I’ve cleaned the cowl drain.
View attachment 636120

Your header looks fantastic compared to mine, at least from this angle. But the looseness is similar. Mine required basically no elbow grease to put on with hardly anything in tension. It's a far cry from the 7 year old OE top I had on my previous LJ.

It still rippled a bit on the sides of the rear window but fit tight, and was always a challenge to pull the zippers close enough to zip up and to get the plastic lips in their grooves, even when it was 95 outside and in the sun. It was borderline impossible at 50F. You can see how tight the fabric is drawn between the bows.

These photos were taken when I sold it in 2012 with 70k miles on it, and represents the standard I expect for a brand new $1400 top (plus clear new windows).

What most of us have is what I would expect the $600 top to look like if the $1400 looked like the one on my black LJ.

 

[WestCoastDan]

I bought the twill version a few years ago for our '03 and it fits a lot better than the photos shown in this thread.
That frame seems tweaked/bent.

 

[Crystal@Bestop]

Doubtful, and it shouldn’t be an issue if it’s new, but it’s a good warranty claim.
@Crystal@Bestop

Hey there - Customer Service will be reaching out to you today on your warranty claim, just wanted to give you a heads up!

~Crystal@Bestop

 

[freedom_in_4low]

I think I'm onto something with one or two of the fit issues.

As far as I can tell, the door surrounds between Supertop and Trektop are identical except that they use different brackets - for the Trektop there is a slotted knuckle with a pin and the door surround bracket is just a tab with a hole. On the Supertop, the bow has a tab with a hole and the door surround has a U-shaped bracket with the pin. However, their centerlines appear to be in the same location - they are both 165mm aft of the centerline of the rear door surround support knob. The headers should also be the same, appear identical (other than that one fits and the other doesn't) and are listed as being the same part number.

On my Trektop, when I measure from the back face of the header just inboard of the bow rod to the centerline of the latch pin where the header bow attaches to the door surround, it's 26".

On my supertop, when I measure from the same surface on the header to the hole in the tab for the latch pin, I only have about 25-11/16".

rather than the rods being too short, I actually think it may be an issue with where the tab is attached. If It was moved backward to match the dimensions of the Trektop, it would pull forward on it's attachment pins to the rear bow, which in turn would pull the bow up and tighten the top.

This wouldn't address that I also think the header isn't shaped correctly, and it may not address the issue of sitting to the left, but it would be a start, and maybe with the fabric pulled tighter it would pull the frame back to center.

For anybody curious, I opened the warranty case on Sunday and sent in all my documentation and photos after lunch on Monday. I have not heard from Bestop other than a PM from @Crystal@Bestop .