Which way do I go?

[NashvilleTJ]

I have a Rubicon going on 10 years that I bought stock. I still have the factory axle housings. Everything inside the axles has been replaced.

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Josh - why did you post a pic of me spotting you, and then a pic of you on your side?



At least there are no pics of that other “incident.”

 

[ColoJeep]

The answer to your price difference appears to be, no. When the locker can no longer be repaired, what is the cure? A new axle?

I'm pretty sure you could replace the rubi locker with an ARB or Eaton E-locker.

 

[jjvw]

Josh - why did you post a pic of me spotting you, and them a pic of you on your side?



At least there are no pics of that other “incident.”

There was another "near miss" the next day that also lacks any evidence.

 

[jjvw]

I'm pretty sure you could replace the rubi locker with an ARB or Eaton E-locker.

I know with absolute authority that ARB lockers can go into both ends.

 

[Apparition]

Josh - why did you post a pic of me spotting you, and then a pic of you on your side?



At least there are no pics of that other “incident.”

I’m more impressed with that blue Jeep with savvy doors.

 

[MBDIAGMAN]

Thanks for the explanation guys!

 

[L J]

I think that it takes $10K or more to replace the axles? Is axle replacement the cure when lockers can’t be repaired?no longer be repaired?

You can replace the Rubicon factory air lockers with Eaton e-lockers (electrically activated), gears and installation for around $5000.

 

[MBDIAGMAN]

Thanks LJ. Good information

 

[MBDIAGMAN]

You can replace the Rubicon factory air lockers with Eaton e-lockers (electrically activated), gears and installation for around $5000.

Okay, so answers beget more questions:

Let’s say that the locker shelled out on one end or the other. It seems that would be the time for a gear ratio change if you’re going to do it. Then my thinking goes to a lower gear (higher numerically) applying even more torque to the axle shafts, but this would result in less strain on the engine, clutch, transfer case and driveshafts than you had with the higher factory gear

So, going a step further, would the lower gear allow for better durability with larger tires, or if you get crazy on tire size, do you need to go to heavier axles like those from a one ton?

My thoughts in this area, if correct, are leading me quickly to understand the economy in finding and justifying the hassle in searching for a Rubicon. You guys have also led me to understand the suggestions to run a Rubicon bone stock before modifying it.

I’m still soaking up details, but I’m learning.

You guys are great!

 

[jjvw]

Okay, so answers beget more questions:

Let’s say that the locker shelled out on one end or the other. It seems that would be the time for a gear ratio change if you’re going to do it. Then my thinking goes to a lower gear (higher numerically) applying even more torque to the axle shafts, but this would result in less strain on the engine, clutch, transfer case and driveshafts than you had with the higher factory gear

So, going a step further, would the lower gear allow for better durability with larger tires, or if you get crazy on tire size, do you need to go to heavier axles like those from a one ton?

My thoughts in this area, if correct, are leading me quickly to understand the economy in finding and justifying the hassle in searching for a Rubicon. You guys have also led me to understand the suggestions to run a Rubicon bone stock before modifying it.

I’m still soaking up details, but I’m learning.

You guys are great!

Lower gearing absolutely reduces the stain on the entire drivetrain. You know this because of bicycles with multiple gears are easier to pedal in lower gears.

 

[MBDIAGMAN]

I thought that since I know you guys just a little bit now, you might be able to deal with a little good natured blasphemy. I changed my avatar to my Disaster Relief vehicle. I’ve had it almost twenty five years. It won’t go where a jeep will go, but it serves my practical purposes well.

Thanks for taking in a new guy!

 

[RHanna]

Raymond, please enlighten me when you have time. I am a neophyte so the obvious reasons in favor of the TJ are not obvious to a rookie. I’m right there with you when it comes to the inline six. Very manageable low and mid range torque and I’m all in on that. What are the other differences? Please pardon my rookieship. I’m just trying to educate myself.

I see how the Rubicon is superior for the axles alone. My guess is that upgrading axles could be a $10K job, or maybe more.

I'm no expert but I am a bit of a research nut. I'm not nearly as mechanically inclined as some on this forum. I'll try to dump what I've learned so far since owning my jeep since 2020. Some of it is personal opinion and some of it is from researching youtube, this website, and other jeep related websites. Hopefully I won't say something absolutely incorrect.

The rubicon is nice but IMO the only advantage it has over a sport or x model would be the transfer case. That's one reason why the rubicon TC sells for so much more on marketplaces. The dana 44 is nice but you can build the stock dana 30 and dana 35 to handle 35s. The prior owner of my jeep installed a currie dana 60 in the rear and left the factory dana 30 with upgraded chromoly axle shafts. The dana 35 would need similar chromoly axle shafts to become the "super dana 35" and maybe some other parts I'm not sure because I haven't researched that process. Those would be about 500-1000 each front and back and easy to install. Someone mentioned 5k for locker install, that would be for a shop to install because the lockers themselves cost about 1200 each.

The factory dana 44 TJ front axle suffers from the same weakness as the factory dana 30 and I'm pretty sure you can't beef up either to remove that weakness. Not all dana 44s are the same. The JK dana 44 is stronger but still has weak points. I believe the strongest factory dana 44 would be out of a 1970's f-150. It's a high pinion axle with super beefy axle tubes. Of course any non TJ axle would require work to create the same setup.

When we talk about one ton axles that's a dana 60 front and either a 14 bolt rear or 10.5 sterling rear. 14 bolt is more popular. You don't need these until 40" tires and require a ton of modifications.

The 37" and up tires also call for stretching the wheel base which is also a whole new animal. This is one reason why the LJ (TJU) is so popular along with more storage room.

For lockers you have the most basic spool or welded spider gears but then your axle is fully locked all the time and should only be used for 100% off road. You'll see this option used more on highly modded jeeps with 42s, ton axles, etc.
Next you have the automatic/lunchbox lockers. Still pretty simple mod that most can tackle. The locker will automatically engage when power is supplied to the axle. That is the locker I installed in my front axle. It will "rachet" while not engaged while turning, which I don't mind but some do. There is one brand that eliminates this sound. Then you have the selectable locker, air powered ARB, electric powered eaton, air/electric/manual powered ox locker. ARB/eaton are usually preferred. The selectable lockers are the most difficult to install and most choose to re-gear while installing them and choose a highly reputable shop to install. You can do this on your own and we have a few members that will help tremendously if you choose this route. Selectable are the best because driving on road in the snow it's a lot safer to not have locked axles (you'll turn your wheels but the jeep might keep going straight). Also comes in handy on tight trails where you can disengage the locker and your turning radius is then tighter.

Forum member with great content. I tackled rebuilding my steering gear box with one of his videos.
https://www.youtube.com/@TheBFHGarage

More jeep related content in his older videos
https://www.youtube.com/@DirtLifestyle

 

[TheBoogieman]

I'm no expert but I am a bit of a research nut. I'm not nearly as mechanically inclined as some on this forum. I'll try to dump what I've learned so far since owning my jeep since 2020. Some of it is personal opinion and some of it is from researching youtube, this website, and other jeep related websites. Hopefully I won't say something absolutely incorrect.

The rubicon is nice but IMO the only advantage it has over a sport or x model would be the transfer case. That's one reason why the rubicon TC sells for so much more on marketplaces. The dana 44 is nice but you can build the stock dana 30 and dana 35 to handle 35s. The prior owner of my jeep installed a currie dana 60 in the rear and left the factory dana 30 with upgraded chromoly axle shafts. The dana 35 would need similar chromoly axle shafts to become the "super dana 35" and maybe some other parts I'm not sure because I haven't researched that process. Those would be about 500-1000 each front and back and easy to install. Someone mentioned 5k for locker install, that would be for a shop to install because the lockers themselves cost about 1200 each.

The factory dana 44 TJ front axle suffers from the same weakness as the factory dana 30 and I'm pretty sure you can't beef up either to remove that weakness. Not all dana 44s are the same. The JK dana 44 is stronger but still has weak points. I believe the strongest factory dana 44 would be out of a 1970's f-150. It's a high pinion axle with super beefy axle tubes. Of course any non TJ axle would require work to create the same setup.

When we talk about one ton axles that's a dana 60 front and either a 14 bolt rear or 10.5 sterling rear. 14 bolt is more popular. You don't need these until 40" tires and require a ton of modifications.

The 37" and up tires also call for stretching the wheel base which is also a whole new animal. This is one reason why the LJ (TJU) is so popular along with more storage room.

For lockers you have the most basic spool or welded spider gears but then your axle is fully locked all the time and should only be used for 100% off road. You'll see this option used more on highly modded jeeps with 42s, ton axles, etc.
Next you have the automatic/lunchbox lockers. Still pretty simple mod that most can tackle. The locker will automatically engage when power is supplied to the axle. That is the locker I installed in my front axle. It will "rachet" while not engaged while turning, which I don't mind but some do. There is one brand that eliminates this sound. Then you have the selectable locker, air powered ARB, electric powered eaton, air/electric/manual powered ox locker. ARB/eaton are usually preferred. The selectable lockers are the most difficult to install and most choose to re-gear while installing them and choose a highly reputable shop to install. You can do this on your own and we have a few members that will help tremendously if you choose this route. Selectable are the best because driving on road in the snow it's a lot safer to not have locked axles (you'll turn your wheels but the jeep might keep going straight). Also comes in handy on tight trails where you can disengage the locker and your turning radius is then tighter.

Forum member with great content. I tackled rebuilding my steering gear box with one of his videos.
https://www.youtube.com/@TheBFHGarage

More jeep related content in his older videos
https://www.youtube.com/@DirtLifestyle

He's 77. Don't spend all of his future SS checks for him.
p.s. Every time I see your screen name. I think......DAMN, she bought a TJ too.
p.p.s. For the Geezers (older than me), Google Rihanna.

 

[mrblaine]

I'm no expert but I am a bit of a research nut. I'm not nearly as mechanically inclined as some on this forum. I'll try to dump what I've learned so far since owning my jeep since 2020. Some of it is personal opinion and some of it is from researching youtube, this website, and other jeep related websites. Hopefully I won't say something absolutely incorrect.

The rubicon is nice but IMO the only advantage it has over a sport or x model would be the transfer case. That's one reason why the rubicon TC sells for so much more on marketplaces. The dana 44 is nice but you can build the stock dana 30 and dana 35 to handle 35s.

For us, generally the better reason to get the Rubi is so it can be geared to 5.38 with the auto.

Someone mentioned 5k for locker install, that would be for a shop to install because the lockers themselves cost about 1200 each.

Yep, typically you are doing gears at the same time. Outside of labor, figure 1000-1200 per end for selectable lockers, 350-500 per end for gears and set up kits.

The factory dana 44 TJ front axle suffers from the same weakness as the factory dana 30 and I'm pretty sure you can't beef up either to remove that weakness.

Yes and no, the gear set is a bunch stronger.

Not all dana 44s are the same. The JK dana 44 is stronger but still has weak points.

Again, sorta. Axle tubes are the same diameter and thickness, ball joints are essentially the same, and the JK inner C is less robust.

Of course any non TJ axle would require work to create the same setup.

A fully baffling scenario I often contemplate when folks tell me how cheap junkyard SuperDuty axles are. I'll have to do some serious mindset adjustments before I get comfy welding my spring perches and lower mount to the cast part of the center section and adding all that beef to an axle that already has a higher weight rating than an entire TJ weighs.

Also comes in handy on tight trails where you can disengage the locker and your turning radius is then tighter.

Sorta, only if you run a rear selectable and remember to turn it off long before you need to turn. Otherwise, the understeer won't be countered and the locker won't be disengaging under bind.

Forum member with great content. I tackled rebuilding my steering gear box with one of his videos.
https://www.youtube.com/@TheBFHGarage

More jeep related content in his older videos
https://www.youtube.com/@DirtLifestyle

 

[RHanna]

He's 77. Don't spend all of his future SS checks for him.
p.s. Every time I see your screen name. I think......DAMN, she bought a TJ too.
p.p.s. For the Geezers (older than me), Google Rihanna.

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Hey, I warned him already. We like to spend other people's money.

When I set up my user name I never thought about it until someone else mentioned it a while back. I actually changed it from rhanna to RHanna. First initial and last name.

 

[NashvilleTJ]

Hey, I warned him already. We like to spend other people's money.

When I set up my user name I never thought about it until someone else mentioned it a while back. I actually changed it from rhanna to RHanna. First initial and last name.

Yeah, yeah. When is your next concert?

 

[Apparition]

Yeah, yeah. When is your next concert?

 

[L J]

Let’s say that the locker shelled out on one end or the other. It seems that would be the time for a gear ratio change if you’re going to do it.

Yes. It makes the most sense economically and for downtime.

Then my thinking goes to a lower gear (higher numerically) applying even more torque to the axle shafts, but this would result in less strain on the engine, clutch, transfer case and driveshafts than you had with the higher factory gear

Yes, but it depends on your tire size which is the first thing you should nail down. Most everything else revolves around that.

So, going a step further, would the lower gear allow for better durability with larger tires, or if you get crazy on tire size, do you need to go to heavier axles like those from a one ton?

TJs and TJU or LJs will handle 35" tires. Chromoly axle upgrade recommended. "One ton" axles are only needed for 37" and larger tires.

My thoughts in this area, if correct, are leading me quickly to understand the economy in finding and justifying the hassle in searching for a Rubicon. You guys have also led me to understand the suggestions to run a Rubicon bone stock before modifying it.

The Rubicon is great if you intend on a stock or slightly modified TJ. The 4 to 1 transfer case allows for greater control on challenging terrain.

I’m still soaking up details, but I’m learning.

You're in the right place. This forum has the most knowledgeable and experienced membership with regards to TJs.

 

[MBDIAGMAN]

Okay, please dont anyone take anything I write as argumentative. Even if I were an arguer, I don’t know enough about the subject matter yet to put up any kind of debate at all. Some of my posts might sound that way just because of the way I am trying to clarify in my mind what is being said, so………:

As I understand it, the Tj Rubicons have Dana 44 axles front and rear. If I understand correctly, this means that the housings are stronger and facilitate rebuilding the differential sections and maybe upgrading to chrome Molly axles. Additionally, when the axle fails, that would be the time to upgrade center sections and change gear ratios.

So, with a TJ sport are the axle housings equal to or inferior to those of a Rubicon? What other differences are there with a Rubicon. I’ve had people tell me that I would be money ahead by starting with a Rubicon because of the axles. I guess that’s where I am seeing mixed signals and of course I understand that different people have different experiences and different opinions

I read one post that led me to believe that the TJ Rubicon housings would be adequately robust to upgrade and repair the innards as necessary and could take me at least as far as 37’s if I go there.

So, what if I started with a Sport? What am I faced with when it comes to needs for axle breakage and upgrade? I like things to be durable.

I want to thank everyone for your patience with me.

To answer Doug’s question, pretty much the only on road use of this vehicle will be transporting it to off-roading locations. I want to leave the path open to 37’s or beyond.

 

[RHanna]

Yeah, yeah. When is your next concert?

You are going to be sorely disappointed if we ever go off-road together.