5.9 swap questions

[Palerider3]

Hey guys, I have a 2000 TJ with a 2.5 and ax5 transmission. I'm looking to do a v8 swap and wanting to keep the factory dash and everything else as factory as possible. My buddy has a 99 durango 5.9 that his kid rolled and I can pick up essentially for the price of gas to go get it (4hrs away) and winch it up onto my trailer. My question is, is the 99 durango motor the same ecm style as my 2000 TJ? I'm more of a chevy guy than a Mopar guy so I don't know what years things went together with Mopar stuff. I'd be using the 5.9 and the 46re from the durango and mating it to my 231 case. Would there be a better/easier year to get the engine/trans/harness from to mesh with my TJ? I don't mind looking and waiting and paying more for something if there is a better or simpler version of this for the swap. I'm not really looking for a ton of power either, I just want to do 65 on the highway passes in the mountains here. Any info would be great. Thanks!

 

[NashvilleTJ]

@Wildman to the Tj Forum courtesy phone…

 

[ColoJeep]

@Wildman

 

[Wildman]

Hey guys, I have a 2000 TJ with a 2.5 and ax5 transmission. I'm looking to do a v8 swap and wanting to keep the factory dash and everything else as factory as possible. My buddy has a 99 durango 5.9 that his kid rolled and I can pick up essentially for the price of gas to go get it (4hrs away) and winch it up onto my trailer. My question is, is the 99 durango motor the same ecm style as my 2000 TJ? I'm more of a chevy guy than a Mopar guy so I don't know what years things went together with Mopar stuff. I'd be using the 5.9 and the 46re from the durango and mating it to my 231 case. Would there be a better/easier year to get the engine/trans/harness from to mesh with my TJ? I don't mind looking and waiting and paying more for something if there is a better or simpler version of this for the swap. I'm not really looking for a ton of power either, I just want to do 65 on the highway passes in the mountains here. Any info would be great. Thanks!

Yes the 5.9 Magnum in the Durango is the same as if from a Ram or Dakota. The PCM from the Durango most likely won't work because the Durango came with SKIM or security or both... You're better off finding a PCM from a 5.9 Ram pickup.
To mate all this to your current NP231 you're going to need to change the input gear on your t-case since the 4 cyl & AX-5 has a 21 spline input while the 46RE has a 23 spline. Or find a NP231 from a 6 cyl TJ.
You can use the wiring harness from the Durango to blend with the Jeeps harness. There may be a few extra wires to remove than using a Ram harness but I know people who have done it. There will be a bout 19 wires to blend total.

I see you're in Idaho.. Where @ & if you don't mind me asking where is the rolled rig? I'm just a little west of Ellensburg, WA and have spare parts from a Magnum swap that I pulled out of my TJ when I swapped in a Hemi...

You'll need to either use the current exhaust manifolds or some type of headers. You can use shorties if you have a short arm suspension or block huggers if you have a long arm suspension.
You're going to need to replace the rear axle since the Dana 35 won't live very long behind a V-8... Your two main options are find a Dana 44 from a TJ/LJ or a Ford 8.8... If you want to go the 8.8 route I've got a Barnes truss kit also.

You'll also need a new radiator. I happen to have one or two of them too...

I got some cheat sheets form people who did these swaps before & then some TSB's

You'll want to replace your plenum gasket & most likely replace all your gaskets while you have the engine out. Do the easy maintenance things like the water pump too.

Here's a really good thread on doing the V-8 swap.

https://www.jeepforum.com/threads/wrangler-magnum-v8-discussion.1365878/

 

[Wildman]

I forgot to mention that you need to get the FSM for both your 2000 TJ & the 99 Durango so you'll have both wiring diagrams. There's a few members here who have a 5.9 Magnum swap in their rigs so three is help...

@Paparock1
@pc1p
@Dan_Goodwin

These guys can help also...

 

[Dan_Goodwin]

I swapped a 99 Durango 5.9 into my 97 2.5 / AX-5 TJ and have about 5k miles on it so far. It's been a great swap that I've really enjoyed as it has good power, utilizes mostly stock parts and looks factory because of that. I don't regret the swap and enjoyed the experience, however, it will absolutely take more time and money than you're figuring. I'll gladly give any pointers to help save either of the previously mentioned commodities.

Speaking of, I need to update my build thread.

 

[Palerider3]

Wow, Thanks guys! That's some great info. Wildman, I'm a little ways outside of the Boise area to the south so I'm a ways from you but I do drive that way occasionally. The durango is in Elko, NV. I had planned to swap the T-case input because my 231 already has a super short SYE. I also already have rubicon d44s under it and 5.13s. My wheeling style is pretty easy on the gas so I figure they'll hold up fine and I really don't put many miles on it. I figure I'll check compression and leak down on the motor and then if all is well I'll just reseal the engine and trans while it's all on the engine stand. You mentioned you had a radiator or two, what radiator do you recommend with this? I figured I'd run an electric fan just for simplicity also. The truck PCM seems easy to come by for a reman. Do you know if it can be programmed with HPTuners or would I need to actually send it out? I can pull wiring from Shopkey as I have a work account. I really hadn't given exhaust that much thought aside from I'd like it to be quiet-ish.

Dan_Goodwin, Thanks, I may get with you when I get started on this. I like to gather up everything before I get started. Is there anything you needed that you hadn't thought of at first? As for time and money, I add up the costs ahead of time for my projects and thrn just double it now. Lol, I remodeled our bathroom for my ex wife a long time ago and that lesson was really the only good to come of it. Now I just assume I've only thought of half of the expenses and tasks involved.

 

[Wildman]

Wow, Thanks guys! That's some great info. Wildman, I'm a little ways outside of the Boise area to the south so I'm a ways from you but I do drive that way occasionally. The durango is in Elko, NV. I had planned to swap the T-case input because my 231 already has a super short SYE. I also already have rubicon d44s under it and 5.13s. My wheeling style is pretty easy on the gas so I figure they'll hold up fine and I really don't put many miles on it. I figure I'll check compression and leak down on the motor and then if all is well I'll just reseal the engine and trans while it's all on the engine stand. You mentioned you had a radiator or two, what radiator do you recommend with this? I figured I'd run an electric fan just for simplicity also. The truck PCM seems easy to come by for a reman. Do you know if it can be programmed with HPTuners or would I need to actually send it out? I can pull wiring from Shopkey as I have a work account. I really hadn't given exhaust that much thought aside from I'd like it to be quiet-ish.

Dan_Goodwin, Thanks, I may get with you when I get started on this. I like to gather up everything before I get started. Is there anything you needed that you hadn't thought of at first? As for time and money, I add up the costs ahead of time for my projects and thrn just double it now. Lol, I remodeled our bathroom for my ex wife a long time ago and that lesson was really the only good to come of it. Now I just assume I've only thought of half of the expenses and tasks involved.

Ryan from FRP uses HPTuners and is very knowledgeable about the Magnum engines. I had a stroker 5.9 in mine until the block cracked so I came across a good deal on the Hemi...
Yes your Dana 44's should hold up just fine unless you're a throttle jockey.

As I said there's folks here that can help as you do things. The #1 issue with the kegger on the Magnum is the plenum gasket blowing and then you sucking oil into the intake. The #2 issue with the Magnum engine is the heads cracking around he exhaust valves. A lot of heads will crack with no issues but then other times you engine up with major issues so doing a compression test & leak down is a good idea. They are actually pretty good engines.

This was one of the heads off my 5.2 Magnum

Always glad to help in anyway I can.

 

[Dan_Goodwin]

Wow, Thanks guys! That's some great info. Wildman, I'm a little ways outside of the Boise area to the south so I'm a ways from you but I do drive that way occasionally. The durango is in Elko, NV. I had planned to swap the T-case input because my 231 already has a super short SYE. I also already have rubicon d44s under it and 5.13s. My wheeling style is pretty easy on the gas so I figure they'll hold up fine and I really don't put many miles on it. I figure I'll check compression and leak down on the motor and then if all is well I'll just reseal the engine and trans while it's all on the engine stand. You mentioned you had a radiator or two, what radiator do you recommend with this? I figured I'd run an electric fan just for simplicity also. The truck PCM seems easy to come by for a reman. Do you know if it can be programmed with HPTuners or would I need to actually send it out? I can pull wiring from Shopkey as I have a work account. I really hadn't given exhaust that much thought aside from I'd like it to be quiet-ish.

Dan_Goodwin, Thanks, I may get with you when I get started on this. I like to gather up everything before I get started. Is there anything you needed that you hadn't thought of at first? As for time and money, I add up the costs ahead of time for my projects and thrn just double it now. Lol, I remodeled our bathroom for my ex wife a long time ago and that lesson was really the only good to come of it. Now I just assume I've only thought of half of the expenses and tasks involved.

I did a lot of research, made a spreadsheet with part numbers and saved pictures from forum threads (I can share a link to all of this if you want it) so I had a pretty good idea going in. There was plenty of things I had to source as plans changed along the way though.

I can't stress enough on the importance of keeping parts organized and especially to take tons of pictures of the donor, your jeep and progress along the way.

 

[Palerider3]

Hey guys, I've got most of the parts together, engine built, and I'm getting ready to build my wiring harness. I had a couple of questions that I was hoping one of you would have the answers to. I'm using the 46re out of the durango. I noticed that it has a speed sensor in the back of the transmission and the 231d did not have a speed sensor. Do you know if this speed sensor is just for the transmission shifting or will it signal my speedometer also? My jeep currently has a 231j with an sye with a speed sensor, but I'm about to order an atlas 4 speed to go in with the swap and I'd really like to go with the short tailshaft without a speed sensor to save that two inches of driveshaft. Can I get a speedometer signal for the dash from this speed sensor in the transmission? Next question is cooling. I haven't ordered a radiator yet and was wondering what the best option there was? Im hoping to run a zj fan. What's the shortest fan hub? Thanks guys!

@Wildman
@Dan_Goodwin

 

[Wildman]

Hey guys, I've got most of the parts together, engine built, and I'm getting ready to build my wiring harness. I had a couple of questions that I was hoping one of you would have the answers to. I'm using the 46re out of the durango. I noticed that it has a speed sensor in the back of the transmission and the 231d did not have a speed sensor. Do you know if this speed sensor is just for the transmission shifting or will it signal my speedometer also? My jeep currently has a 231j with an sye with a speed sensor, but I'm about to order an atlas 4 speed to go in with the swap and I'd really like to go with the short tailshaft without a speed sensor to save that two inches of driveshaft. Can I get a speedometer signal for the dash from this speed sensor in the transmission? Next question is cooling. I haven't ordered a radiator yet and was wondering what the best option there was? Im hoping to run a zj fan. What's the shortest fan hub? Thanks guys!

@Wildman
@Dan_Goodwin

That rear speed sensor is for shaft speed so no it won't work for your dash speedo.

Alloyworks is who a local shop uses for radiators that he does V-8 swaps on.

If you need help with the harness let us know. I've got one sitting here in my garage too...

@Paparock1 has a 5.9 in his TJ also.

 

[Palerider3]

If you need help with the harness let us know. I've got one sitting here in my garage too...

Well shit, if you're not using it are you interested is selling or trading it?

Guess I need to decide whether I need a dash speedo more or 2 extra inches of rear driveshaft

 

[Wildman]

Well shit, if you're not using it are you interested is selling or trading it?

Guess I need to decide whether I need a dash speedo more or 2 extra inches of rear driveshaft

I might be willing to sell it.. Do you need headers? I've got a pair off shorties and block huggers...

You could do a GPS speedo. https://intellitronixgauges.com/gps...9020/?searchid=47036&search_query=gps+speedp,

https://www.dakotadigital.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=837/mode=prod/prd837.htm

 

[Palerider3]

Nice, I never even realized that was a thing! I'll order the short tailshaft and that gps unit. That's awesome. I have a set of shorty headers right now I'm planning to use, hoping to use the factory Y pipe into a 2.5" cat and muffler back from there. I'll send you a pm about that harness.

 

[Wildman]

Nice, I never even realized that was a thing! I'll order the short tailshaft and that gps unit. That's awesome. I have a set of shorty headers right now I'm planning to use, hoping to use the factory Y pipe into a 2.5" cat and muffler back from there. I'll send you a pm about that harness.

You'll want to go to 3" after the Y-pipe. Your 5.9 will thank you for it..

I've got a spare 5.9 block and a stroker kit for the 5.9 making it a 6.7 (408) also.

 

[Palerider3]

Yeah, you're probably right about the 3". Do you have any recommendations for a 3" muffler that is compact but not too loud? I'd like to be able to talk to my passenger without having to yell on the road.

 

[Paparock1]

Not to disagree with wildman as he has and continues to help me and sell me parts.

I used the 2.5 exhaust. For what i do, the 5.9 is very impressive a d more than I need.MPG is not the best as I get about 11 MPG.
Maybe one day I would step up to 3 inch as I dont miss what I dont know.

 

[Wildman]

Yeah, you're probably right about the 3". Do you have any recommendations for a 3" muffler that is compact but not too loud? I'd like to be able to talk to my passenger without having to yell on the road.

This was with a Magnflow muffler & no cat.

Not to disagree with wildman as he has and continues to help me and sell me parts.

I used the 2.5 exhaust. For what i do, the 5.9 is very impressive a d more than I need.MPG is not the best as I get about 11 MPG.
Maybe one day I would step up to 3 inch as I dont miss what I dont know.

I'll have to find it but a guy I know from the Jeep Forum who has a 5.9 in his went from 2.5" to 3" and commented on how much just the butt dyno it improved to him.
I think if you check even a stock 5.9 Ram exhaust was 3" with the 5.9. Not 100% sure on that.

 

[Dan_Goodwin]

Hey guys, I've got most of the parts together, engine built, and I'm getting ready to build my wiring harness. I had a couple of questions that I was hoping one of you would have the answers to. I'm using the 46re out of the durango. I noticed that it has a speed sensor in the back of the transmission and the 231d did not have a speed sensor. Do you know if this speed sensor is just for the transmission shifting or will it signal my speedometer also? My jeep currently has a 231j with an sye with a speed sensor, but I'm about to order an atlas 4 speed to go in with the swap and I'd really like to go with the short tailshaft without a speed sensor to save that two inches of driveshaft. Can I get a speedometer signal for the dash from this speed sensor in the transmission? Next question is cooling. I haven't ordered a radiator yet and was wondering what the best option there was? Im hoping to run a zj fan. What's the shortest fan hub? Thanks guys!

@Wildman
@Dan_Goodwin

Late to the party, but a 1997 Magnum V6 Dakota fan clutch is the shortest one available (see pics from my thread). The trade off with that clutch is that it'll make accessing the front of the engine a pain as it pulls the fan extremely close to the engine.

I'm running a cheap eBay stock replacement and its adequate but not amazing. Mine still gets a tick warm on interstate driving but I'm not convinced the radiator is entirely the culprit there. I'd recommend looking into https://bricethomasradiator.com/ and getting an LS swap radiator to get both inlet and outlet on the passenger side. My lower radiator hose could be much shorter if the radiator outlet was on the opposite site.

 

[Wildman]

Late to the party, but a 1997 Magnum V6 Dakota fan clutch is the shortest one available (see pics from my thread). The trade off with that clutch is that it'll make accessing the front of the engine a pain as it pulls the fan extremely close to the engine.

I'm running a cheap eBay stock replacement and its adequate but not amazing. Mine still gets a tick warm on interstate driving but I'm not convinced the radiator is entirely the culprit there. I'd recommend looking into https://bricethomasradiator.com/ and getting an LS swap radiator to get both inlet and outlet on the passenger side. My lower radiator hose could be much shorter if the radiator outlet was on the opposite site.

A SBC swap radiator would have the lower connection on the passenger side. With the Magnum it isn't as important which side the upper is on but the stock Dodge has the upper on the drivers side.

With a Hemi it depends on the year & then also what it came out of. With a newer Hemi car engine a LS radiator would work since both inlet & outlet are on the passenger side.

I've got a thin brass radiator that was installed when I did the 5.2 swap but I'm not sure if it'd be adequate enough to cool a 5.9 since they are supposed to be harder to cool than the 5.2. But I've also ran a electric fan from day 1 of my V-8 swaps.