UAW ready to strike
- Thread starter Apparition
- Start date
I was watching a video this morning & the guy was talking about the strike and repeating the theory that the big 3 want this strike & in his view because they've been having a harder and harder time selling the behemoths they produce, maybe not as much because people don't want them as they can't afford them. This has led to large inventories that are sitting on lots, and rather than explain to their shareholders that they have to throttle back production because their product isn't selling, they've got the built-in excuse of the strike. Makes sense to me.
My girlfriend's daughter is in need of a new beater after hers crapped out a couple weeks ago. This past weekend we were out & about & for shits & grins we popped into three local car dealers, Chevy, Ford & Honda. Honda had a handful of 'certified' used cars and a few new ones, not much different than the past couple years; the cars were reasonably priced, sort of, they had a bunch of 2 to 3 year old civics and accords with between 20,000 & 40,000 miles in the low 20k range, stickers on the new cars were probably 20-25% higher than pre-2020, manageable prices overall. Ford and Chevy? Rows and rows of giant pickup trucks and a handful of giant SUVs but NO CARS. The Chevy dealer had ONE Trailblazer, which I guess could be considered a car, or crossover... The prices on these pickups were insane, 60, 70, 80k? WTF
They aren't pickups anymore, haven't been for a while, they're pickup truck shaped luxury ocean liners. I guess I can't blame the big three, they build what people want, so it's probably more our own fault we've created this beast & now the average Joe can't afford to buy one anymore.
I bought my first dumpy house 30 years ago for 80k, the cost of some of these trucks, so I plugged that into an auto calculator, with nothing down at 7% over 5 years the payment is $1,760/month.
Seriously how many families in 2023 America can swing a car payment of $1,760 in addition to probably a second car payment for the wife, a mortgage, & a couple screaming hungry kids?
https://www.calculator.net/auto-loan-calculator.html?csaleprice=80,000&cmonthlypay=750&cloanterm=60&cinterestrate=7&cincentive=0&cdownpayment=0&ctradeinvalue=0&ctradeinowned=0&cstate=PA&csaletax=8&ctitlereg=2,500&cttrinloan=1&printit=0&ctype=standard&x=Calculate#autoloanresult
My girlfriend's daughter is in need of a new beater after hers crapped out a couple weeks ago. This past weekend we were out & about & for shits & grins we popped into three local car dealers, Chevy, Ford & Honda. Honda had a handful of 'certified' used cars and a few new ones, not much different than the past couple years; the cars were reasonably priced, sort of, they had a bunch of 2 to 3 year old civics and accords with between 20,000 & 40,000 miles in the low 20k range, stickers on the new cars were probably 20-25% higher than pre-2020, manageable prices overall. Ford and Chevy? Rows and rows of giant pickup trucks and a handful of giant SUVs but NO CARS. The Chevy dealer had ONE Trailblazer, which I guess could be considered a car, or crossover... The prices on these pickups were insane, 60, 70, 80k? WTF
They aren't pickups anymore, haven't been for a while, they're pickup truck shaped luxury ocean liners. I guess I can't blame the big three, they build what people want, so it's probably more our own fault we've created this beast & now the average Joe can't afford to buy one anymore.
I bought my first dumpy house 30 years ago for 80k, the cost of some of these trucks, so I plugged that into an auto calculator, with nothing down at 7% over 5 years the payment is $1,760/month.
Seriously how many families in 2023 America can swing a car payment of $1,760 in addition to probably a second car payment for the wife, a mortgage, & a couple screaming hungry kids?
https://www.calculator.net/auto-loan-calculator.html?csaleprice=80,000&cmonthlypay=750&cloanterm=60&cinterestrate=7&cincentive=0&cdownpayment=0&ctradeinvalue=0&ctradeinowned=0&cstate=PA&csaletax=8&ctitlereg=2,500&cttrinloan=1&printit=0&ctype=standard&x=Calculate#autoloanresult
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Ford doesn't really make any cars anymore except the Mustang.
I hadn't realized it but I just checked the websites of the big 3 and the last "American" cars you can buy are Mustang, Camaro, Corvette, Malibu, Charger, and Challenger (I didn't go into luxury brands, I suspect theres still a Cadillac and maybe a Lincoln) And if I'm not mistaken, several of those already have their sunsets on the calendar. Even all the EVs are more crossover than car.
CreepinDeth
TJ Addict
An oblivious retard that decided to act a fool, and took an ass whippin for it.
Its the Big 2
Fiat Chrysler isnt domestic
Corporate HQ in Amsterdam
Financial HQ in England
Majority stake owned by the Italian Agnelli family
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I saw this exact thing when the strike first happened. There's no reason to stop it and it's only going to benefit the car manufacturers by keeping prices higher and shrinking their growing inventories.
And this is why you see 6, 7, & 8 year car loans now. Probably won't be long until we see 10 year car loans. Wages aren't going to keep up with inflation, so it's only going to get worse.
Avg Cost of a new car in America is like $48K. If you want a 5 year loan and a payment at or under $500 a month, you're gonna need to front $28K between trade in and down payment. I don't know many people who can do this, but yet I see brand new cars everywhere.
Lincoln only has crossovers and SUV's. Other than the Mustang and Corvette I think all of those are going away.
We know that but I'd wager the typical American car buyer has no idea who Stellantis is or that their Cherokee shares parts with a Fiat.
CreepinDeth
TJ Addict
I thought you were joking….but you were right
https://www.moneygeek.com/insurance... from Kelley Blue Book,in the last 12 months.
Americans will not be able to keep payin these absurd prices esp with Bidenflation. Its gonna crash. I make enough to buy anything new, but I refuse to pay for it. Im in the habit now of pickin up mint condition body and interior vehicles and rebuilding them with new engines and whatever else they need. I will only keep 1 new DD for work
People just starting out will be in debt for decades if they keep buyin these newer vehicles
I'd believe that, the Ford dealership we went to had zero cars, Mustang or otherwise. It was a Sunday so perhaps they had one tucked away inside somewhere, dunno.
I don't even know whey we bother calling them car dealerships anymore, they're really truck depots at this point. Man Detroit has really pigeon-holed itself, & when you add the borderline catastrophe that is their EV divisions, pile on the worker's current demands, it's a fairly bleak outlook
no doubt, it's troublesome. There are still lower priced vehicles available, takes a little more effort. And I have no doubt some enterprising manufacturers will fill these gaps in years ahead, I think we'll be seeing a shift away from massive SUVs and Pickups and trend back towards cars; the manufacturers that jump on that wagon will be able to sell millions of them. I think it'll be Japan and Korea that take that lead, Japan is in deep shit due to the dead sales in China, their biggest market. The big 3 Japanese brands may have no choice but to regear and start paying more attention to the US if they want to survive; they've been riding a wave of profits from China and the rest of the world and largely ignoring the US, that's a function of their lower profits here due to some fucked up dealership entanglements. If they can wiggle out of that, and many manufacturers seem to be headed in the direct to consumer model pioneered by Tesla, they may get their shit back together. And I hope they do, they make the best value vehicles, we need that.
When I travel I rarely rent a car, maybe if it's a nice day and they have a convertible. Most of the time I grab an SUV for the higher seating position and easier luggage access.
We can thank our overlord .gov for part of this. They came up with a mileage / emissions standard based on vehicle " footprint" size.
The larger it is , the less it has to comply with. The companies jumped on this with both feet are new buyers are left buying medium duty sized pickups thanks to Washington meddling with the market.
yea, as I said above this isn't a 'want' problem, we've certainly made our preferences well known as a country & that is the bigger, fatter and more tech laden the better. I believe the unintended consequences however have greatly contributed to the current unaffordability quagmire we find ourselves in.
There will always be a market for work trucks and land yachts, I think the question is whether that market is big enough to sustain the big 3 as viable companies rather than minor niche players.
agreed, everything they touch turns to shit.
You've now pointed this out twice in this thread, but you're looking at it wrong. The "Big 3" moniker was for the three top-selling automotive companies, regardless of country of ownership. I first heard it in the 70s, but I think it originated in the 60s, or even the 50s. For decades, it was GM, Ford, Chrysler, in that order. Using your methodology above, where only American-owned companies in the top three are counted, they are now the Big 0. Here's the sales ranking in 2023 for car companies:
- Toyota
- Volkswagen
- Hyundai-Kia
- Stellantis
- Renault Nissan Alliance
- General Motors
- Ford
- Honda
- Suzuki
- BMW
What's amazing to me is how quickly the Koreans took over #3. They really know how to sell a car (price, price, price)! Knowing a few Hyundai owners and having worked on their cars with them, I am saddened by that. The first gen "Veloster" is an absolute hot mess!
I have no sympathy for the UAW. Their greed and strive-for-mediocrity-through-socialism mentality has contributed to the Big 3's transition to the Big 0, without a doubt. Management shares the blame for certain, but the UAW ain't clean. Just like government and corporations are too big, so goes the unions.
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the rot began in the 70s, coming off of decades of success driven in large part by their only-game-in-town status post-WWII. They were definitely too fat & happy when the gas crunch hit, and failed to either notice, through complacency, or appreciate, through arrogance, what Japan was busy doing. They woke up way too late to correct the ship, some think they still haven't done so, as evidenced more recently by their failure to notice what Musk and the Chinese started doing a good while ago; they're at least a decade behind both in the development of EVs, and I think their only saving grace in that department will be if the entire EV concept collapses in on itself, as many think will be the case.
Long-time Subaru owner here. Their sales have been climbing, but they're nowhere near the top 10. Focus2Move's data is mostly a pay service, but I found 2018 data showing their global rank then was #24.
<— just received a $4100 quote to replace the clutch and rear cat ($680) on my '13 Outback. Looks like I'll go DIY for ~$1000 in parts.
Currently shopping for a new daily driver. Requirements: 1. I fit (~6'5"), no CVT. Desirements: manual trans, under $30k, 30mpg city.
Leading candidates, unranked:
The current plan is to watch the world burn until mid-December and see if the attitudes and motivations of sales staff improve. Hopefully the fleet doesn't require any more costly or labor intensive repairs.
Currently shopping for a new daily driver. Requirements: 1. I fit (~6'5"), no CVT. Desirements: manual trans, under $30k, 30mpg city.
Leading candidates, unranked:
- Honda Civic hatch $27.8k
- Honda Civic Si $30k without market adjustment
- VW Jetta GLI 40th anniv $29k
- VW Jetta Sport $24k
The current plan is to watch the world burn until mid-December and see if the attitudes and motivations of sales staff improve. Hopefully the fleet doesn't require any more costly or labor intensive repairs.
Yet most people of my acquaintance do NOT want the fucking tech, although many do want the big size. If I were to get back into RVs and buy a fifth wheel, I would HAVE to buy an older truck. Pulling a trailer - esp. a fifth-wheel - with one of these double cab school busses with a vestigial bed is NOT my idea of fun. Never mind how fucking big/high the damn things are. Wife and I were talking about this just yesterday while we were out in traffic. She said "There's a nice truck" - it was a mid-aughts single cab Dodge with an eight foot bed (and no fucking "technology" I'm sure). Contrast to the Silverado in the next lane with tires so big that they came above my head - and it was a half ton truck! WTF? Insert rant {HERE} about the nonsensical tech running up the price by $20K and the reliability down into the toilet.
Replacing the cat is a pretty easy DIY job. The clutch is not, but it just takes more patience. I've done it twice in my near-400,000-mile '98 Impreza. The first time I did it without removing either the transmission or the engine from the vehicle. It was quite a struggle. I removed the transmission the second time, and it was easier. If you've never done one, getting the crankshaft angle to match the transmission input shaft angle is key. You have to be able to change the tilt on the engine and the transmission, independently, during assembly. If you don't, you'll struggle (and if you get impatient and force things, you could break something.)
I'm getting ready to rebuild the transmission for the third time (the 5-speed in my '98 is fragile), but I now have a two-post lift and a proper high-lift transmission jack in my shop, so I think it'll be much easier for me, which is important - I'm getting too old for crawling under it. Now more than ever, DIY rebuilding is an easy financial choice to make, if you have the abilities (edited to add: and time!).
We bought a 2021 Impreza base model new a couple years back for my wife to drive. I wanted a conventional automatic transmission, but the only auto Subaru offered was that horrible CVT. Wanting a Subaru, but definitely not wanting a CVT, we were forced to look at manual transmissions. I was astounded to find that a manual transmission option was only available in a few models (I think it was just the base Impreza, all Crosstreks, the WRX, and the BRZ models at the time). I recently looked at 2024 models because I was thinking about trading it for a Crosstrek for the ground clearance (we live in the boonies on rocky, unmaintained, 1-mile-long "driveway"), and I was saddened to learn that only the WRX and BRZ models are now available with manual transmissions. No more new Subarus for us, I guess. That's okay, though, in 40 years of driving, I've only bought three new cars. I've started a list of Subaru parts needed to put the Crosstrek suspension on the 2021 Impreza...
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