Window Motor Wiring Problems

[TJMexico]

Man, I wish I had simple hand-crank windows on this thing!

There is a fustercluck of wiring going to my doors. A previous owner installed a remote entry system and whoever did it was pretty much working with scrap speaker wire, electrical tape and Elmer's glue. The strap that holds the door from opening all the way gave way and some of the wires got pulled. Now my d/s window is down and I can't get it up. Some of the wires to the plug/harness were clipped off for some reason tracing everything is turning into a nightmare.

There is a hot wire that goes to the remote door locking mechanism, necessary because the door has to lock even if the ignition is off. The problem that I am having is figuring out how the window motor is wired. I think I found the wire that goes hot when you hit the up button, but it does not seem to go hot when you hit the down button.

Can somebody clue me in?

There are two contacts on the top of the motor, as per the photo. I have labeled the contacts as (1) and (2). Now, what I do not know is if one of those contacts goes up and one goes down and the ground is through the chassis, or if the switch makes the reverse up and down and those are just hot and ground contacts.

Does anyone have a clue as to which it is?

And if (1) and (2) are hot and ground or ground and hot, or up and down or down and up?

Wires were cobbled together and some have broken in inconvenient locations. There is a good auto-electrician in town and I may end up taking it to him to let them sort the rat's nest out, but we're in rainy season and I'd rather at least get that window up so that I don't get water in the Jeep.

This is the state of things as it stands right now. I'm about to go back out and see what I can figure out on my own.

 

[macleanflood]

Motors usually wind different ways when current is applied in opposite polarity. Take a 12v test lead, ground one side, power the other and vice versa.

Might want to see how many ohms you've got through the motor windings.

-Mac

 

[TJMexico]

Motors usually wind different ways when current is applied in opposite polarity. Take a 12v test lead, ground one side, power the other and vice versa.

Might want to see how many ohms you've got through the motor windings.

-Mac

That's what I'm figuring. Finding the wire the power comes through has been the issue. I'd love to find the moron who did this and beat him about the head and shoulders with a stiff rubber hose.

 

[hear]

That's what I'm figuring. Finding the wire the power comes through has been the issue.

Maybe it's bluetooth.

I'd love to find the moron who did this and beat him about the head and shoulders with a stiff rubber hose.

To quote Corey Kurth circa 1990: "it's a good thing I didn't bring my penis with me, or else I'd take it out and beat you with it."

 

[B1Toad]

The most common way to control a reversible DC motor is to use a DPDT switch wired as shown below which allows the switch to reverse the polarity. It can also be done by using the common (2&5) terminals for the power and ground and using 3 & 6 for the motor leads, basically opposite of the drawing. If the switch is also illuminated there may be 2 additional terminals to help confuse you.

So yes the motor leads are going to be + /- and -/+ depending on the direction desired.

 

[DuckNut]

Your motor should make an indication of direction by using a 9v battery. It probably won't have enough power to roll the window up but should give an inch or two, enough for you to determine which wire goes where. Then rewire with color coded wire.

 

[macleanflood]

And if it doesn't wiggle with a 9v you can try shocking it back to life with an 18v tool battery!

-Mac

 

[mrblaine]

And if it doesn't wiggle with a 9v you can try shocking it back to life with an 18v tool battery!

-Mac

We use the batteries from our M12 stuff for automotive electrical stuff.

 

[TJMexico]

I have the circuitry figured as far as where the power is coming in. Now, next step...

Whoever did this fustercluck of wiring didn't even have the sense to use one strand of wiring on a single run. I actually have two or three pieces twisted and taped together for one run of circuit, and often with differing gauges being connected to one another. Some of the pieces are actually speaker wire. The plug to disconnect the door from the wiring is all hackedup.

The windows have always been real slow to go up and down, like the amperage is low. I suspect that this may be because of the crappy wiring, changes in the thickness. I mean, in one run there are two or three different wire gauges.

The wire under the dash that brings power to the door looks to be 14ga. It's cut off short under the dash so I can't really get a good look at it. I am in a small village with limited resources, but I'll go look for some 14ga wire. (I have plenty of 12ga wire from when I wired my house, but I'm sure that's too thick to be splicing into a 14ga run.) I'm using a solderless quick spice clip connector with a spade plug to hook the motor into the power feed.

Does anyone know off-hand of a certainty what the proper gauge would be for this circuit? 14 or 16 seems right. I guess going with 14 won't hurt, even if it's 16, though 16 seems a bit thin.

The fuse for the power windows is 20amp.

 

[B1Toad]

Is there a tag on the motor showing the amps?

 

[TJMexico]

Is there a tag on the motor showing the amps?

Not immediately visible. There is some stamping on the housing behind the bracket that holds it on the door. Maybe I'll take the lose to see if it has any specs on it.

Here's a photo of the wiring that is connected directly to the motor. Yo can see that it a pitiful mish-mash. There is actually speaker wire used on it. Some of it is marked as such. The pair that is hard-soldered to the motor looks to be paired speaker wire. I want to remove that, but it's soldered on and I don't have an iron handy.

The only wire I could find here in the village is 14ga house wire. But I'm not sure if the feed coming from under the dash isn't 16ga. Just can't see it very well.

Anyway, I'll do what I can, to get it operational, then maybe take it to the automotive electrician in town to see if they can sort it out better. Or not...

I can put up with a lot from people, but stark stupidity sets me off, and what I'm seeing here is just stupid. Something else to look at next I buy a used vehicle.

 

[TJMexico]

Got it working. I cut out the trash wires and replaced it with a run of 14ga house wire. It was all I could find here. The window is actually working better. As I had mentioned, both windows seemed to struggle to go up and down, but with this new wire it runs smoothly.

The connection under the dash is still a stinkin' mess, but it'll have to do for now. I'll see if I do something about it later.

Here are photos of the new wiring to the motor and of the fustercluck of wires under the dash that the moron who installed the remote left me.

 

[TJMexico]

The most common way to control a reversible DC motor is to use a DPDT switch wired as shown below which allows the switch to reverse the polarity. It can also be done by using the common (2&5) terminals for the power and ground and using 3 & 6 for the motor leads, basically opposite of the drawing. If the switch is also illuminated there may be 2 additional terminals to help confuse you.

So yes the motor leads are going to be + /- and -/+ depending on the direction desired.

View attachment 634071

The most common way to control a reversible DC motor is to use a DPDT switch wired as shown below which allows the switch to reverse the polarity. It can also be done by using the common (2&5) terminals for the power and ground and using 3 & 6 for the motor leads, basically opposite of the drawing. If the switch is also illuminated there may be 2 additional terminals to help confuse you.

So yes the motor leads are going to be + /- and -/+ depending on the direction desired.

View attachment 634071

Hey, B1Toad, that diagram was a big help! Thank you so very much.

 

[macleanflood]

FYSA I get a lot of my wire stripping harnesses off wrecks.

Have a local junkyard?

-Mac

 

[TJMexico]

FYSA I get a lot of my wire stripping harnesses off wrecks.

Have a local junkyard?

-Mac

Good idea. I'll have to see, but I don't think there are a lot of Jeeps of this era in the "yonkes," as they call them here.

I'd like to trace all the way back to the switches and re-do all that run, but I don't know how much of a nightmare pulling that panel would be. Actually, it looks like it wouldn't be all that hard.

Thankfully, I think I'm good for now, though.

 

[B1Toad]

You been getting our rain down there? Can you push some of it our way?

 

[TJMexico]

You been getting our rain down there? Can you push some of it our way?

We had nearly two weeks of good rain starting end of June, then it was dry for a spell, then rained past three days or so. Today and yesterday no rain, but the humidity is horrible. Been wet with sweat last couple of days, unusual here as it's usually dry.

The Guarajío village near here just had their annual raindance ceremony, so I'll talk to them about maybe sending some up there.

 

[TJMexico]

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-1pxjnhlN_DFnfPoIewFBEvmxYUpO-CT/view?usp=sharing

 

[macleanflood]

Good idea. I'll have to see, but I don't think there are a lot of Jeeps of this era in the "yonkes," as they call them here.

Doesn't need to be a Jeep. Just needs to be automotive wire. Most of my wiring for my installed accessories...lights, lockers, my switch panel all came from a Honda.

-Mac