Using the DRB III to Calibrate a New Cam Sensor in the 4.0 Engine (2000-2006)

[freedom_in_4low]

Hey guys, Bigfoot-NM, SAB, williambmac and everyone else, thanks very much for your insight and help. It's just mind blowing that for all the expertise Chrysler is supposed to have that they could not have come up with a more simpler and reliable means of managing the inner workings of the PCM, CAM and Crank sensor functions of this engine.

if you think this is complicated just wait until you get to work on basically anything out of Europe for the last 20 years.

Much of the engine stuff is forced by government regulation, other stuff is dictated by consumers that are chomping at the bit to have everything they use completely infiltrated with the latest tech.

 

[HeffTJ]

Yes, I guess that is so true about so many things! It's just working through those initial frustrations that get under a guy's skin and pocket book!! Thanks again

 

[freedom_in_4low]

Yes, I guess that is so true about so many things! It's just working through those initial frustrations that get under a guy's skin and pocket book!! Thanks again

I get it. Mostly I get annoyed with running into things that I can't do without spending money on an expensive tool. $500 for the Autel is pretty damn steep. I could swing the Thinkdiag2 without much heartburn, but for $119 for a Micropod2 and a sub-$100 used Win7 laptop on eBay I can run the DRB3 emulator and do ANYTHING the dealer can do, as long as I can figure out how to do it.

I'm somewhat confident I could read the cam crank difference with a $10 amazon bluetooth dongle and the Torque Pro app on my phone, but as I've mentioned previously (in this thread I think) there's some info I need to find it, and that info seems to be played pretty close to the chest by both the vehicle and the scanner manufacturers that pay 4-5 figure $$$ for it.

 

[HeffTJ]

Mostly I get annoyed with running into things that I can't do without spending money on an expensive tool. Yup, that's my feelings also!!

 

[Daz7]

P0344 Camshaft Position Sensor A - Bank1 CKT Intermittant code. It did it yesterday on a 212 mile drive but the weird thing is, after another 60-75 miles of driving, the engine light went out. When I installed the new OPDA I didn't do a relearn process that I can remember. Any suggestions will be appreciated.

I battled with 0344 errors for a couple of years on my 05/06 , did all of the suggestions you read about, sometimes you felt it was fixed but alas it wasn't. Crank and cam sensors replaced a few times with the same result. Vehicle would run without an engine light, then go into limp mode throw engine light and error (p0344), you could turn off the vehicle with the key, turn it back on, continue on no issues except the engine light would be on. I used to go through this whilst driving, so didn't have to stop completely.

Then decided the issue was mechanical, not electrical. After checking cam and OPDA gears were ok, decided timing chain could be stretched. It was, replaced that and after retiming the OPDA as per the workshop manual its run without any further issues since. Mileage was approx 220000km (approx 130 000 miles) at time of timing chain replacement.

If your NGC PCM-equipped TJ (2005-2006) throws the P0016 code (or runs poorly) after performing the Cam Crank Relearn function and driving it for a bit, you may want to try rotating your OPDA, especially if you just installed a new aftermarket cam sensor (Note: this is speculation on my part – I have not confirmed that this works.)

This is correct - after changing the timing chain and retiming the OPDA it threw 0016 codes for the first time. Moved the OPDA slightly and away it went never to return.

 

[mrblaine]

Are you saying that the Cam Crank Difference was 8°? Did you perform a ReLearn after reading that, and if so, did that value change?

To answer your question in the first post, we set the difference on nearly every rig we touch since none of them have ever been close to zero. We don't check after the relearn very often.

Oddly, we have fixed more than a few with some very odd behaviors that can be attributed to excessive lash in the cam drive. Typically presents as running well going uphill, runs like crap and cuts out, low RPM with crap throttle response going downhill which is typically coasting against the engine. The lash moves the synch too far out and the engine suffers. We believe it can compensate for about 10 degrees of difference, we find them right at 10 or a little over and moving them back near 0 has fixed more than a few.

 

[freedom_in_4low]

Are you saying that the Cam Crank Difference was 8°? Did you perform a ReLearn after reading that, and if so, did that value change?

I'm not sure I would expect it to change since there's both a "difference" and a "learned" value.

This screenshot was posted in the DRB Emulator in a VM thread, where you see the current "cam crank difference" AND the "cam crank learned".

This leads me to believe that the "difference" is an absolute value, and the "learned" is what the PCM actually uses for the timing calculations and misfire detection. So in the above screenshot, performing a re-learn would update the learned value to 8.2. Ideally all the PCM likely would care about would be that the two values are within a tolerance to one another, but it sounds like, particularly with aftermarket sensors, that setting the difference close to zero before performing the relearn also helps keep the expected signals within tolerance.

 

[sab]

The MK808S is almost $100 off for Prime Day:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0744B55QV/?tag=wranglerorg-20

 

[mrblaine]

I'm not sure I would expect it to change since there's both a "difference" and a "learned" value.

This screenshot was posted in the DRB Emulator in a VM thread, where you see the current "cam crank difference" AND the "cam crank learned".

View attachment 440123

This leads me to believe that the "difference" is an absolute value, and the "learned" is what the PCM actually uses for the timing calculations and misfire detection. So in the above screenshot, performing a re-learn would update the learned value to 8.2. Ideally all the PCM likely would care about would be that the two values are within a tolerance to one another, but it sounds like, particularly with aftermarket sensors, that setting the difference close to zero before performing the relearn also helps keep the expected signals within tolerance.

We actually checked a couple that we synched and forced the relearn on. Nothing changed from our original number.

 

[freedom_in_4low]

We actually checked a couple that we synched and forced the relearn on. Nothing changed from our original number.

Are you saying both "difference" and "learned" remain unchanged, or just specifically the "difference"?

 

[HeffTJ]

Sab, if Bigfoot-NM is correct that removing the positive lead from the battery and touching it to the negative post still connected to the battery, for at least 30 seconds, completely drains the capacitors in the PCM which forces the relearn process in the 2005-2006 engines, then I shouldn't need a scanning tool like the Accutel or DRB. Is that a correct assumption? Thank you.

 

[sab]

Sab, if Bigfoot-NM is correct that removing the positive lead from the battery and touching it to the negative post still connected to the battery, for at least 30 seconds, completely drains the capacitors in the PCM which forces the relearn process in the 2005-2006 engines, then I shouldn't need a scanning tool like the Accutel or DRB. Is that a correct assumption? Thank you.

Correct, you wouldn't need what's called a "bidirectional scanner" because you won't need to perform the Relearn function. However, you would want a scanner in order to dial in the Cam Crank Difference to 0° (or as close as you can get it). Those scanners are not bidirectional and are considerably less expensive.

Also, be aware that doing a hard reset like that resets every learned function in your PCM, so it will take a few drive cycles (time) to get it running in tip-top shape again. The advantage to performing the Cam Crank ReLearn is that none of the other learned functions gets lost in the process.

 

[mrblaine]

Are you saying both "difference" and "learned" remain unchanged, or just specifically the "difference"?

I'm saying that when we adjust the difference to be close to zero and then do the forced relearn, that number doesn't change after the relearn.

 

[HeffTJ]

What type or brand of a non-bidirectional scanner would be adequate for my needs? Thanks for the help.

 

[sab]

What type or brand of a non-bidirectional scanner would be adequate for my needs? Thanks for the help.

I'm afraid I can't really help you there, as I have no personal knowledge of any specific non-bidirectional scanner that will read the Cam Crank Difference value. I think most should, but again, I have no personal knowledge. I've always used my DRBIII on my LJ. I do have some non-bidirectional scanners, but my LJ is at the paint shop right now, so I have no easy way to see if they will do it. Hopefully someone else can speak up for you.

I will say that I have this Bluetooth one, and I like it a lot, and it's on sale for Prime Day right now, but I can't confirm that it will read Cam Crank Difference:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07JFRFJG6/?tag=wranglerorg-20

 

[HeffTJ]

As always your help is appreciated and I'm sure there are others in the same boat as me gaining helpful advice from you and others!!

 

[freedom_in_4low]

What type or brand of a non-bidirectional scanner would be adequate for my needs? Thanks for the help.

It's still bidirectional but according to post #13 in this thread, the Thinkdiag2 scanner was able to do it. It's $128 for Prime day today plus a $10 coupon.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09YRDGY3Z/?tag=wranglerorg-20

I've got both a Micropod2 for DRB3 emulation and the Thinkdiag2 en route to my house.

 

[HeffTJ]

I spoke with the folks at Thinkdiag2 and they say their scanner will perform the relearn function. Here's hoping they are right!

 

[sab]

I spoke with the folks at Thinkdiag2 and they say their scanner will perform the relearn function. Here's hoping they are right!

Well, as freedom_in_4low pointed out in the post just above yours, I relayed (in this thread's Post #13) that Bigfoot-NM successfully performed a ReLearn with the Thinkdiag2, so you'll be good to go.

 

[HeffTJ]

Sure do hope so. I really enjoy my TJ but there are times when I just scratch my head raw!!