Upgrading gears

kimjeep

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Sterling, Colorado
OK question for the group. I am doing a two week off-road trip and I’m wearing that. I don’t want to break my jeep while doing it. I have a 2006 Jeep Wrangler TJ X. I am running 32 inch tires, no lift, and I have 3.73 gears. This vehicle is my daily driver and I am trying not to increase my gas mileage. Plus, I would like to say since it is my daily driver I do do a lot of cross country driving with it. I have been doing some research even on this form about it. So the shop that I went to Wanted to increase my gears to 4.56. And I have read in this forum that it will increase my gas mileage, but I wanted to see if find people like yourself would feel that would be OK not to change the gears. Just replace my rear to a Dana 44 and put E lockers in for my off-road trip. I live out here in Colorado And if some of you on the forum know about the off-road in here, it can be pretty extreme. I am doing rim, rocker and red cone. That is moderate difficulty. I do have some experience with off roading though. Thank you in advance for any suggestions and thoughts
 
With your automatic I would go straight to 5.13 gears. Shops are not usually very well versed in what gear ratio works best in each scenario with different engines, transmissions, and tire sizes. You’re not going to break anything by not regearing, but things will be a lot more enjoyable with gears.
 
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The main thing at this point is to get proper lift to run the 32’s.

The gear ratio won’t change whether you break or not. EDIT: 513 gears for an auto transmission is better.

Lockers are good in a rear Dana 44. Not so much in a rear Dana 35 unless you do a Super35.

Do gears and locker at same time. Locker will increase off road capability substantially.

Never heard anyone not wanting to increase their gas mileage.
 
With your automatic I would go straight to 5.13 gears. Shops are not usually very well versed in what gear ratio works best in each scenario with different engines, transmissions, and tire sizes. You’re not going to break anything by not regearing, but things will be a lot more enjoyable with gears.

So you think it would be OK with getting lockers and upgrading my rear to Dana 44 without re-gearing would be OK. I am just a bit nervous because my Jeep Wrangler has very high mileage, like 260,000 miles. Really do not want to put any more stress on my engine with that kind of high miles. Just from what I’m reading it sounds like it will put more stress on the engine. I am planning to keep this jeep hopefully for the next 10 years at least.
 
The main thing at this point is to get proper lift to run the 32’s.

The gear ratio won’t change whether you break or not. EDIT: 513 gears for an auto transmission is better.

Lockers are good in a rear Dana 44. Not so much in a rear Dana 35 unless you do a Super35.

Do gears and locker at same time. Locker will increase off road capability substantially.

Never heard anyone not wanting to increase their gas mileage.

The Shop actually found out that I do have dina thirty-5s, which he felt was a rare find. I do have an automatic transmission. From what I was reading it says that increasing the gears will decrease my gas mileage. Just from what I’m reading I don’t have any experience, that’s why I’m coming to the experts.
 
The Shop actually found out that I do have dina thirty-5s, which he felt was a rare find. I do have an automatic transmission. From what I was reading it says that increasing the gears will decrease my gas mileage. Just from what I’m reading I don’t have any experience, that’s why I’m coming to the experts.

All X's came with Dana 35 rears.
 
The Shop actually found out that I do have dina thirty-5s, which he felt was a rare find. I do have an automatic transmission. From what I was reading it says that increasing the gears will decrease my gas mileage. Just from what I’m reading I don’t have any experience, that’s why I’m coming to the experts.

Dana 35 is the most common rear differential. Not rare. It’s a c-clip axle. You don’t want to put a locker in it or 35”+ tires unless you do a S35.

The gears don’t decrease your gas mileage. It’s the bigger tires. The higher gears are needed for better driving experience with the bigger tires.

Right now you need at least 2” of lift and new shocks. Proper gears would be 513 for that tire size and transmission. But lift is what you need now.
 
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The Shop actually found out that I do have dina thirty-5s, which he felt was a rare find. I do have an automatic transmission. From what I was reading it says that increasing the gears will decrease my gas mileage. Just from what I’m reading I don’t have any experience, that’s why I’m coming to the experts.

That actually depends on the situation. If your Jeep was lugging and working harder to turn heavier tires, a gear ratio change may put the engine back into an optimal RPM range and actually improve mileage to a degree.
 
So you think it would be OK with getting lockers and upgrading my rear to Dana 44 without re-gearing would be OK. I am just a bit nervous because my Jeep Wrangler has very high mileage, like 260,000 miles. Really do not want to put any more stress on my engine with that kind of high miles. Just from what I’m reading it sounds like it will put more stress on the engine. I am planning to keep this jeep hopefully for the next 10 years at least.

No, don't worry about lockers and axle upgrades until you are ready to re-gear. Do everything at once. Concentrate on getting the proper lift for 32" tires first.
 
Dana 35 is the most common rear differential. Not rare. It’s a c-clip axle. You don’t want to put a locker in it or 35”+ tires unless you do a S35.

The gears don’t decrease your gas mileage. It’s the bigger tires. The higher gears are needed for better driving experience with the bigger tires.

Right now you need at least 2” of lift and new shocks. Proper gears would be 513 for that tire size and transmission.

That is definitely good to know. I had a feeling he didn’t know what he was talking about. I have 32 inch tires. I am definitely not going any bigger.
That actually depends on the situation. If your Jeep was lugging and working harder to turn heavier tires, a gear ratio change may put the engine back into an optimal RPM range and actually improve mileage to a degree.

I have 32 inch tires BFGoodrich KO2’s with no lift just spacers. And I live in Colorado so I do live at a high altitude and when I go to the mountains, I do go up high mountains, and I feel my Jeep has high RPMs to make it up the hill.
So it sounds like from what you’re telling me it may actually level out my engine with the higher gears. They want to do 4.56.
 
No, don't worry about lockers and axle upgrades until you are ready to re-gear. Do everything at once. Concentrate on getting the proper lift for 32" tires first.

OK, thank you for letting me know that. This forum has really changed my point of view so I will get it all at once.
 
That is definitely good to know. I had a feeling he didn’t know what he was talking about. I have 32 inch tires. I am definitely not going any bigger.


I have 32 inch tires BFGoodrich KO2’s with no lift just spacers. And I live in Colorado so I do live at a high altitude and when I go to the mountains, I do go up high mountains, and I feel my Jeep has high RPMs to make it up the hill.
So it sounds like from what you’re telling me it may actually level out my engine with the higher gears. They want to do 4.56.

If I were you, what I’d do now is get 2” suspension lift and proper length new shocks (Skyjacker BlackMax or Rancho 5000X).

What I’d do later is regear to 513 gears and get a front Eaton E-Locker. Do t do anything to the rear except regear. You’re only running 32’s with no plan to go bigger.

Wheel it. Drive it.

Going all out crazy swapping the rear axle to a Dana 44 for 32’s is unreasonable. Your Dana 35 will be fine. You also don’t sound like you need lockers front and rear. So, just get a front locker when you regear and save several thousand dollars. A front locker will seriously transform your Jeep.
 
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OK, thank you for letting me know that. This forum has really changed my point of view so I will get it all at once.

Buy once, cry once.

Use this calculator to compare gear ratios and current tire size (actually measure them, don't go off the sidewall) to factory ratio and factory tire size. You can see what ratio will put your Jeep back to factory-ish parameters. Though you'll want the RPMs slightly higher to account for the weight of larger tires and your off-road use. Most here would err on the side of overgeared (deeper) versus under. The 42RLE's overdrive is the real problem. It makes you need a deeper gear than other transmissions.

https://www.grimmjeeper.com/gears.html
 
That is definitely good to know. I had a feeling he didn’t know what he was talking about. I have 32 inch tires. I am definitely not going any bigger.


I have 32 inch tires BFGoodrich KO2’s with no lift just spacers. And I live in Colorado so I do live at a high altitude and when I go to the mountains, I do go up high mountains, and I feel my Jeep has high RPMs to make it up the hill.
So it sounds like from what you’re telling me it may actually level out my engine with the higher gears. They want to do 4.56.

You want 513 gears for your tires and transmission. Do that and the transmission will not downshift as far or as frequently. 75mph will be at about 2900rpm, which is a decent place to be. And the 4low travel will be nicer.

42rle/31”/5.13=2877rpm @ 75mph
 
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I'm also in Colorado, familiar with the trails you're talking about and the roads to get there. I hope this long form post will help you and others think through the why of your specific needs. The decision factors are different with other transmissions or engines. Ie with the manual, 3rd, 4th and 5th are closer together providing other gears to get into the powerband. This tool is helpful. https://www.grimmjeeper.com/gears.html

The main issue that can damage your jeep's mechanical system is low rpm - high load situations on the motor aka lugging, a combination which isn't great for any motor, especially this very old architecture. If you your cooling system is not in tip top shape - this could quickly get you into trouble and end your trip. Much more important than gears, but gears get you out of this situation too.

The gears won't make as big a difference in the offroad side of things for this trip and you won't break anything on those trails specifically due to your current gears. Gears are much more about managing the on-road performance with any vehicle that has 4-Lo, though they'll still provide benefit in 4-lo.

Your tire and gear combination will absolutely perform better on road with numerically higher gears. Peak torque on the TJ (4.0L) is at 3200rpm and peak hp is around 4400rpm. You don't need to be cruising in overdrive in this range, but because of the wide gear spreads between gears in the auto you'd want 3rd gear in the auto to get into this rpm range in the speed range from 60-75 mph or maybe 55-70 mph depending on personal preference. One issue with the later 4.0L engines is the very mild cam, long intake runners and small exhaust ports don't breath very well above 3500rpm, torque falls off and it doesn't increase power as much as you go higher.

Assuming your tires are currently 32" actual diameter (they'll actually be 31.5 or so) and I believe your vehicle runs the 42RLE transmission,

engine RPM with 3.73 in 3rd at 60mph is 2350 and 75 is 2937 with OD at 75mph at 2027.
engine RPM with 4.56 in 3rd at 60mph is 2873 and 75 is 3591 with OD at 75mph at 2478.
engine RPM with 4.88 in 3rd at 60mph is 3074 and 75 is 3843 with OD at 75mph at 2652.
engine RPM with 5.13 in 3rd at 60mph is 3232 and 75 is 4040 with OD at 75mph at 2788.

Both 4.88 and 5.13 will give better alignment between the engine powerband, your tires and our roads and work with the very tall OD in the 42RLE. If your tires actual diameter is at or lower than 31.5" and you don't plan to ever go up to a "33" - the 4.88 ratio would be a little better I think, but others differ in preference. If you want the power to come on closer to 55 mph or think you might go to a 33" tire in the future then the 5.13 would be better but be aware this could put you in a quite high rpm on the 85mph speeds on the interstates in neighboring state to use 3rd gear effectively.

I also agree with others - if you're considering a Dana 44 rear axle - now is the time to install it. Lockers? Now is the time to install them. Do not do this twice.

There is no free lunch as the higher numerical gears will also spin the driveshafts at the higher rpm. The rpm in 3rd with your transmission is 1:1 and gives you actual driveshaft rpm at a speed regardless of gear. This higher rpm increases wear on the driveshaft joints and if there is any imbalance may bring that down into the range where you encounter it in normal driving.

If your X is a 2005 or 2006 you also need to make sure to update the speedometer gear or use a speedohealer to correct the speed signal fed to the PCM because these years jointly control the engine and transmission shifting based on the vehicle speed input along with other load factors. If you have a 2003 or 2004 X then you should still do this, but the transmission and engine ECM management are not linked. One of those reasons being the 03-04 have a hard fuel cut speed limiter at 92mph indicated which you'd reach at a much lower speed with 5.13 gears.
 
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I'm also in Colorado, familiar with the trails you're talking about and the roads to get there. I hope this long form post will help you and others think through the why of your specific needs. The decision factors are different with other transmissions or engines. Ie with the manual, 3rd, 4th and 5th are closer together providing other gears to get into the powerband. This tool is helpful. https://www.grimmjeeper.com/gears.html

The main issue that can damage your jeep's mechanical system is low rpm - high load situations on the motor aka lugging, a combination which isn't great for any motor, especially this very old architecture. If you your cooling system is not in tip top shape - this could quickly get you into trouble and end your trip. Much more important than gears, but gears get you out of this situation too.

The gears won't make as big a difference in the offroad side of things for this trip and you won't break anything on those trails specifically due to your current gears. Gears are much more about managing the on-road performance with any vehicle that has 4-Lo, though they'll still provide benefit in 4-lo.

Your tire and gear combination will absolutely perform better on road with numerically higher gears. Peak torque on the TJ (4.0L) is at 3200rpm and peak hp is around 4400rpm. You don't need to be cruising in overdrive in this range, but because of the wide gear spreads between gears in the auto you'd want 3rd gear in the auto to get into this rpm range in the speed range from 60-75 mph or maybe 55-70 mph depending on personal preference. One issue with the later 4.0L engines is the very mild cam, long intake runners and small exhaust ports don't breath very well above 3500rpm, torque falls off and it doesn't increase power as much as you go higher.

Assuming your tires are currently 32" actual diameter (they'll actually be 31.5 or so) and I believe your vehicle runs the 42RLE transmission,

engine RPM with 3.73 in 3rd at 60mph is 2350 and 75 is 2937 with OD at 75mph at 2027.
engine RPM with 4.56 in 3rd at 60mph is 2873 and 75 is 3591 with OD at 75mph at 2478.
engine RPM with 4.88 in 3rd at 60mph is 3074 and 75 is 3843 with OD at 75mph at 2652.
engine RPM with 5.13 in 3rd at 60mph is 3232 and 75 is 4040 with OD at 75mph at 2788.

Both 4.88 and 5.13 will give better alignment between the engine powerband, your tires and our roads and work with the very tall OD in the 42RLE. If your tires actual diameter is at or lower than 31.5" and you don't plan to ever go up to a "33" - the 4.88 ratio would be a little better I think, but others differ in preference. If you want the power to come on closer to 55 mph or think you might go to a 33" tire in the future then the 5.13 would be better but be aware this could put you in a quite high rpm on the 85mph speeds on the interstates in neighboring state to use 3rd gear effectively.

I also agree with others - if you're considering a Dana 44 rear axle - now is the time to install it. Lockers? Now is the time to install them. Do not do this twice.

There is no free lunch as the higher numerical gears will also spin the driveshafts at the higher rpm. The rpm in 3rd with your transmission is 1:1 and gives you actual driveshaft rpm at a speed regardless of gear. This higher rpm increases wear on the driveshaft joints and if there is any imbalance may bring that down into the range where you encounter it in normal driving.

If your X is a 2005 or 2006 you also need to make sure to update the speedometer gear or use a speedohealer to correct the speed signal fed to the PCM because these years jointly control the engine and transmission shifting based on the vehicle speed input along with other load factors. If you have a 2003 or 2004 X then you should still do this, but the transmission and engine ECM management are not linked. One of those reasons being the 03-04 have a hard fuel cut speed limiter at 92mph indicated which you'd reach at a much lower speed with 5.13 gears.

I really appreciate you taking the time to explain a lot of these things bc it is so confusing. The gear website you provided, I wouldn't even know how to use when I have an automatic. I have an automatic, 4.0 2006 Wrangler, TJ X. currently, I have dana 35, and wanted to upgrade to dana 44 lockers, so they told me I needed to get a new rear dana 44, which I am ok with, since I do want to keep my Jeep hopefully for the next 10 years or so. the gears (4.56) and lockers (dana 44 eaton e-lockers) have already been purchased. The dana rear I am getting is out of another TJ, same year and. model. This will be the first time replacing my rear with my Jeep with about 260k miles. I have been the soul owner.
I don't do many off roading but my friends want to do red cone and rim rocker, starting September 1, and have two weeks to discover, and probably do other trails too. he wants to do Imogene pass what ever part will be open during that time.
For the most part, through out my travels all over the USA, I have rarely drove my TJ over 75. Unless, of course I am going down hill.
Luckily, my transmission was replaced about 2 years ago, so hopefully it will last me another 15 years.
Thanks for your insight.
 
4.56 gearing was the wrong decision given you're tire size and you will regret the purchase. The shop that recommended that gear ratio is clueless.
 
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The gear website you provided, I wouldn't even know how to use when I have an automatic.

Easy enough.

Your transmission is a Dodge 42RLE which you can pick on the drop down list and the site already has the gear ratios for it. Your transfer case is a normal NV231 also on the drop down. Your tire manufacturer will list the actual diameter for the tire somewhere on their website, but to be even more precise if you already have the tire, the height from ground to the center of the hubtimes 2 is the diameter the tire is actually rolling on and will match what you'll see in the real world. This is a bit counterintuitive.

Plug those into the calculator with your various differential gear ratios and speeds you want to check and it'll do the rest.

I have a NV3550 5 speed with 285/75R16s Duratracs (32.6" dia advertised new) with 4.56 gears. I've done some other enhancements on the 4.0L to squeeze a bit more power out of it, but it's maybe 20 hp net. With this I rarely shift lower than my 1:1 4th gear in the mountains including the same sections of US-285 you are talking about. However, my 3rd gear is alot closer if I need it and my 5th is significantly shorter than your overdrive.

1754510100802.png


If you can get the shop to exchange the gears I think you'll be happier with either a 4.88 or 5.13 with the Auto - but it's not a total lost cause with 4.56 and 31.5-ish tires. The challenge is that 2nd with 4.56 now be a little too short where it puts you at redline at 65mph. It's useful from say roughly 25-52 mph, but at 45-50mph you'll kinda be between gears where the engine is producing decent torque, but only 75-90hp at the crank in 3rd and you're under heavy load. We've got alot of mountain passes in that 45-50 mph range. The torque is pretty good by 2500 rpm.

1754513678017.jpeg
 
I have an automatic, 4.0 2006 Wrangler, TJ X. currently, I have dana 35, and wanted to upgrade to dana 44 lockers, so they told me I needed to get a new rear dana 44, which I am ok with, since I do want to keep my Jeep hopefully for the next 10 years or so. the gears (4.56) and lockers (dana 44 eaton e-lockers) have already been purchased. The dana rear I am getting is out of another TJ, same year and. model.

In the front you have a Dana 30. Are you replacing that to a Rubicon 44 as well? If they ordered two 44 lockers the front is going to be wrong.
 
In the front you have a Dana 30. Are you replacing that to a Rubicon 44 as well? If they ordered two 44 lockers the front is going to be wrong.

If her max tire size is 32’s all this Dana 44 stuff is nonsense IMHO. Downsize to a 31.5” tire, get a 2" lift, add a front locker in the Dana 30 and go have fun. It would be hard to stop and way better than what she has now on 32's stock open diff.

If the big issue is the highway hills then yeah she should think about a regear and definitely tell the shop she doesn't want 456 but 513.