The Saga Continues…

[NJW]

I’m currently taxing to take off on a flight to the North East. Never been.

This will be a short post, but long story short - I was talking to this guy before I bought my black Jeep in Houston.

After my axle deal fell through, I’ve been thinking about what I want to do with that jeep. That’s a tomorrow problem.

What do you guys think about this?
I’m taking off, but have about 100 more photos and videos.

 

[Chris]

How much is he asking?

 

[jjvw]

If it makes you happy, buy it. Don't think too hard.

 

[NJW]

How much is he asking?

Thought that was in there. We started at 40k, now we’re at 30k. I’m flying out on miles. At 30k, I’d still be putting money back in the bank after selling my red LJ and gives me the rook to tweak this.

It has half the miles, 49xxx, is ridiculously clean, already on the axles I want. I had planned to do hydro assist steering, not full hydro. The only real negative for me. Not a deal breaker, but I’m definitely going to have to build some drive over fenders now.

I found this because I was planning to do both front and back half motobilt kits on the red LJ. This guy was on there, with a post from back in April - it wasn’t a marketplace find. If this would have been listed in the SW, I don’t see it lasting very long.

Needs the hood painted, and ARB lines run for the lockers, and speakers wired up. Pretty small things.

He has all the parts, winch line, hood louvre, top, etc - but left unfinished.

This seems to be the cheapest way for me to get into a stretched LJ on tons and 40’s - but I’m going into it cautiously.

I have a shipper lined up that will cost me 1200 to get it home.

So, all in - 32000 if I count for my missed day of work, cost of shipping and painting the hood when I get back.

From what I can see, and I’m no expert, things look well thought out. He’s got documentation from a respected shop regarding the axles - at least google says they’re legit…

What red flags do you guys see?

The original Jeep and some photos I have on my phone…

 

[Chris]

I think for that price it ought to have a V8 and a 4L80E.

 

[NJW]

If it makes you happy, buy it. Don't think too hard.

I was happy with my last purchase, and the purchase before that - even with the hiccups.

I just don’t want rose colored glasses going into this. I wouldn’t be on a plane if I wasn’t planning on it, but I also recognize there’s a lot of wisdom on here.

As much as I want to build one of these, and justify the expense - picking up someone else’s abandoned project just seems like the wisest financial move.

Reading back on my posts in this forum, it’s definitely a pattern. I find a deal, then a better deal, then what I think is the deal to end all deals.

I think I enjoy finding the deal the same way many of you guys enjoy the build process.

 

[jjvw]

....

I think I enjoy finding the deal the same way many of you guys enjoy the build process.

There are other fish out there. It might be wise to move on.

 

[NJW]

I think for that price it ought to have a V8 and a 4L80E.

I wish. But if I’m simply calculating what I would spend to put the axles under my jeep with a front half kit, with wheels and tires - assuming I get top dollar for my wheels, tires, and axles (which I probably won’t) I’m still going to be over the price point of this one - without accounting for time or labor.

I’ll admit, this is the easy way out.

 

[Chris]

I wish. But if I’m simply calculating what I would spend to put the axles under my jeep with a front half kit, with wheels and tires - assuming I get top dollar for my wheels, tires, and axles (which I probably won’t) I’m still going to be over the price point of this one - without accounting for time or labor.

I’ll admit, this is the easy way out.

Well given the state of the economy I would just haggle with him as much as possible. I get what you’re saying though and you are 100% right. Just to do all that would cost you quite a bit.

 

[NJW]

I suppose I should clarify, I’m happy at this price point, if everything checks out in person tomorrow.

I can look at it like I traded my red LJ, which had some major things I was going to change. It was on JK axles which I was fine with and it was likely going to stay on those 37’s. I was going to hydro assist, stretch the rear and the front slightly, highline and redo all the armor because of the stretch, links and cage this winter.

I had budgeted 15k, realized it was going to probably be more than that.

Instead, I sold it for what I was into it for - considerably more than this one. Wasn’t the plan, I didn’t list it - was an offer that I jumped at. I got a solid 3 years out of it - a record - and some terrifying experiences.

I’ll admit that this is somewhat mental gymnastics to justify the purchase of something that I certainly don’t “need”.

I also don’t want to just buy someone else’s problem, like I’ve done previously. I think that’s more over what I’m looking for advice on - if there’s anything jumping out as a problem.

 

[jjvw]

I suppose I should clarify, I’m happy at this price point, if everything checks out in person tomorrow.

I can look at it like I traded my red LJ, which had some major things I was going to change. It was on JK axles which I was fine with and it was likely going to stay on those 37’s. I was going to hydro assist, stretch the rear and the front slightly, highline and redo all the armor because of the stretch, links and cage this winter.

I had budgeted 15k, realized it was going to probably be more than that.

Instead, I sold it for what I was into it for - considerably more than this one. Wasn’t the plan, I didn’t list it - was an offer that I jumped at. I got a solid 3 years out of it - a record - and some terrifying experiences.

I’ll admit that this is somewhat mental gymnastics to justify the purchase of something that I certainly don’t “need”.

I also don’t want to just buy someone else’s problem, like I’ve done previously. I think that’s more over what I’m looking for advice on - if there’s anything jumping out as a problem.

You should buy it. Then you should sell it.

 

[rasband]

You need to figure out what kinds of things you want to do in a Jeep and find or build the one that does those things best. All these have issues in common that probably make it perform worse than you want, if you're wanting to run trails like pritchett again.

 

[NJW]

D

You need to figure out what kinds of things you want to do in a Jeep and find or build the one that does those things best. All these have issues in common that probably make it perform worse than you want, if you're wanting to run trails like pritchett again.

This is what I’m trying to learn. That day on the trail was where I figured out I really wasn’t satisfied with how my Jeep (and I) performed. I made 4 trips to Moab this year, and cruised a lot things - but once it got a little spicier like Pritchett, I was pulling line or finding myself not completing obstacles.

The hot tubs, big ledges, and some other obstacles convinced me that I wanted to stretch the wheelbase. I was still running that wishbone suspension in the rear from Full Traction. My uptravel was less than ideal using the PO’s hoops in the front - which prompted the thought process of redoing things with the front half kit. I also had a few limitations with my steering, which was on the list to upgrade.

So I set out to find something that was mildly stretched, had hydro steering, 37’s+ and axles equipped to handle those - to me, this answers a lot of what I was wishing I had with some bonus stuff thrown in like tons and 40’s vs JK and 37’s, a cage. Lack of power is probably the biggest concern I have here.

What do you see about this build in question that is a repeat issue? This is an honest question - because I’m 100% not certain of any of this. The brutal honesty is the kind I need.

I know enough to know that I really don’t know all that much.

 

[rasband]

What do you see about this build in question that is a repeat issue? This is an honest question - because I’m 100% not certain of any of this. The brutal honesty is the kind I need.

It's a bit of a guess, but the arm geometry is what I'm seeing in common that all looks very similar. You can tune any of these higher end shocks to know how they perform reliably, but you can't tune out anti squat and IC without changing mount locations and arm relationships. That capital put in the Jeep doesn't help you if it's not the right relationships, as if it's wrong you have to do it again anyway.

I could also be wrong about these, I'm only looking at pictures.

 

[gasiorv]

Looks like it is a decent build and will be a lot of fun. That build will have no issues on any trail in moab. The HP concern is valid but with the 4:1 transfer and 5.38 gears won't be an issue. Not shown in pictures but I am assuming that the rear towers have a cross brace, it not it will need it. Since it is a new build you will have to tune the suspension which may take you a little time to get it dialed, but even out of the gate it will be fine on trails like pritchett.

Price seems a little high, but it is a new build that hasn't been ragged on yet, so you will get those honors. But those honors will also come with working out the bugs and tuning it. If you look around you can probably find a similar build with an LS. But if it has everything you want and you like it, it will be fun.

 

[NashvilleTJ]

Here's some perspective that may help. Hard to tell by just the pictures and the description, but let's assume it works fairly well. If so, that look's like a rig which could run with mine - and I have nearly five times that into my rig. A little apples and oranges given my power, but I don't think you could build that rig for that cost.

But as Matt said, you can't really tell until you see it and run it, but it at least looks promising.

Edit: Accept for Matt's rig. Matt runs obstacles on Pritchett which my rig can't do...

 

[NJW]

It's a bit of a guess, but the arm geometry is what I'm seeing in common that all looks very similar. You can tune any of these higher end shocks to know how they perform reliably, but you can't tune out anti squat and IC without changing mount locations and arm relationships. That capital put in the Jeep doesn't help you if it's not the right relationships, as if it's wrong you have to do it again anyway.

I could also be wrong about these, I'm only looking at pictures.

Here’s some more pictures then, lol. Anti squat was my nemesis with the full traction. I’ve been reading a ton, but admit I’m in way over my head. Still don’t think I properly understand it or IC.

I thought the less steep of angle, the less AS - I get that’s an oversimplified idea, but here’s a pic of the rear control arms.

 

[fourpointzero]

I know some (most) of you guys really enjoy modifying your TJ's, some the extreme like in this case but that was a beautiful LJ as it was before all the surgery. Wow

I'm no expert or engineer, but it looks super clean and if it has pretty much everything you wanted and the guys giving you a price you're comfortable with and you hopped a plane to see it, why back out now? Whatever you do, I wish you the best with it. Looks like a beast.

 

[rasband]

Edit: Accept for Matt's rig. Matt runs obstacles on Pritchett which my rig can't do...

I still think you won out - but I am excited to wheel together again if I can make it out to sand hollow next year.

 

[rasband]

Here’s some more pictures then, lol. Anti squat was my nemesis with the full traction. I’ve been reading a ton, but admit I’m in way over my head. Still don’t think I properly understand it or IC.

I thought the less steep of angle, the less AS - I get that’s an oversimplified idea, but here’s a pic of the rear control arms.

View attachment 660144

That does look really clean, so if it looks that way in person - that's some decent bonus.

The balance of the arms is an interesting thought process. Too steep (short arms) you get hop and lose traction. Too shallow you get front end lift. Try to imagine the thrust vector and how the jeep would rotate around whatever that is with the rear arms pointing at a center point as the lines extend.

While this is imperfect, I think about it as if there's a radius that the rear triangle makes until they intersect - this is the center of a circle. If it's steep, traction is lost because the thrust vector and weight balance are in a smaller circle and more "up". If it's flat the thrust vector and weight shift to make a much larger circle and is more "forward" toward the center, which causes front end lift (which is especially prevalent on steep climbs).

The math is cool here if you want to just talk circles ignoring anything else about a jeep. A 9" pizza is only 63.62sq" while a 10" pizza is 78.54sq" (which is 23% more, despite only being 11% larger diameter). That is to say, 1" diameter of this circle seems small, but it really isn't. Flattening the arm angle (longer and longer arms) is increasing the diameter of the pizza.