Personal advice needed

[bucky]

So here’s the back story. I have a good friend who would give you the shirt off his back if you needed it. He’s in a personal crises now. His GF tragically died about 2 yrs ago. He has been an over drinker for yrs and it has only increased since her death. He lives in a valley in the local mountains about 10 miles from me. We had an Oct storm that caused a debris flow that all but buried his house. He has no hot water because his WH was swept away and his pipes were damaged. I have offered multiple times to come up with my equipment and dig him out. He refuses each time saying he does not need the help. He’s a prideful and stubborn man.
Tonite my Daughter called and said she found him at our local watering hole drunk as a skunk and she did not want him to drive home. He’d been there all day apparently. No Uber service to his house in the mountains. So I went up with my car hauler to pick him and his Ranger up and drive him home.
My Dad and FIL both died from alcoholism and I know I can’t change that in him if he doesn’t want to.
My question is how to I force him to let me help with his living situation? Do I just show up and start removing the debris from around his house? We have mutual friends that I’m sure I can rally to help. He has refused their help also. It really pains me to see him in this situation. Winter is coming and everything will be buried in feet of snow.
Suggested input would be appreciated.

 

[Zorba]

That's a hard one - I don't really have anything helpful, but I'll be interested in what others have to say...

 

[JMT]

The worst he can say is get the F— out of here and that may happen if you go alone, but if you rally some friends I think he’d be more receptive and certainly better off.

 

[1o1proof]

The worst he can say is get the F— out of here and that may happen if you go alone, but if you rally some friends I think he’d be more receptive and certainly better off.

This is what I was thinking as well. And maybe time it out to where he is coherent and not terribly hung over, I hate being bothered when I am hung over!

 

[taylormade73]

Forcing help on someone builds resentments. While he might be better off physically as a result, he will still be in the same place mentally and emotionally. He won’t “accept” help until he’s ready. Just be prepared for that if you do decide to just help him with help.

 

[Apparition]

Forcing help on someone builds resentments. While he might be better off physically as a result, he will still be in the same place mentally and emotionally. He won’t “accept” help until he’s ready. Just be prepared for that if you do decide to just help him with help.

Definite possibility but is it that much of a stretch after hauling his drunk ass and vehicle home for him?

Hard to say without personally knowing him if being thankful for help is ever possible. Everyone handles things differently and it depends on the relationship with the helpers and how far he's gone down the hole already. If the relationship with him is a good one there's a chance. If it's bad then it'll likely get worse.

After hauling him home I'm thinking it's an opportunity to say you're gonna temporarily provide some help and sort some stuff out to improve his situation what he does with it in the end is up to him.

 

[sab]

The worst he can say is get the F— out of here and that may happen if you go alone, but if you rally some friends I think he’d be more receptive and certainly better off.

This is solid advice, and we just used this tactic for an elderly neighbor. Short version of a very long story: he's 87, never married, has no kin here in Texas, and lived with no running water for about a decade, and has never had electric service. He built a small home into the side of a hill and has had military surplus solar power (24VDC) for lighting for decades. He had a stroke about two years ago, has cancer now in his pancreas (we think - he's still waiting for results, but he already has skin and bone cancer, so it doesn't look good), and is very frail these days. He'd had trouble with frequent falls, and his last fall he laid on the floor for almost two days until the sheriff did a welfare check. That landed him in the hospital, followed by a rehab facility, for a couple weeks.

Mrs. sab and I, along with another neighbor couple and one of his local friends, took that two weeks to completely clean his filthy, cluttered house. The two main reasons he was falling were dehydration (because it was a lot of work hauling water in 3 gallon buckets) and tripping over all the stuff on the floor. So we also rigged up a running water system for him using an RV pump and an IBC tote. The whole time we were doing it, we were informing him of what we were doing. He complained the entire time about us "wasting our time on him." I just kept telling him that his lifestyle (living a very physically-demanding life of hauling water in buckets from his rainwater tank, etc.) caught up with him, and if he really wants to die at home (he does), he has to have help.

He's been back home for three weeks now, and he hasn't fallen, yet. We got him a killer walker with brakes and a seat, and he's able to get around in his house with it. Last weekend, I drove my tractor with 3-point log splitter down to his place and bucked, split, and stacked a season's worth of fire wood from his pile of limbed logs. The entire time, he complained about me "wasting my time on him." I told him I was just investing in his life because he was important to me, and us being without children, I was also investing in the universe because I'll eventually need to make a withdrawal from that investment as I age.

Point is, he's not able to take care of himself and would likely die alone on his floor without intervention. Sometimes, stubbornness has to be ignored to give someone the dignity they don't understand they're lacking. My vote is to help your friend. It's the right thing to do. If you can get others to help, I agree with JMT that it will help him receive and accept that help.

Forcing help on someone builds resentments. While he might be better off physically as a result, he will still be in the same place mentally and emotionally. He won’t “accept” help until he’s ready. Just be prepared for that if you do decide to just help him with help.

I think this applies in the world of addiction 100% because people don't want to be judged. If bucky concentrates on fixing the living conditions and stays away from trying to help with the addiction until he's ready for help, he can pull this off. Showing his friend that he cares for his physical wellbeing without judging him for the demons he's fighting could be seen in a positive light. Or not. If the situation was an easy one to navigate, we wouldn't all need to be discussing it...

Good lucky, bucky! I hope you're able to help your friend.

 

[Harold&Cat]

Ministering to someone is not just spreading the gospel , it is also helping meet someone's needs . This is difficult when they continuously reject the help . Praying for the person and for the Holy Spirit to guide you in the situation will open doors and provide a way . Try not to get discouraged , prayers are answered on God's time and not ours . Sometimes we might not understand or agree with the outcome , but we must put our faith in Jesus .

I hope this message helps and gives you some comfort . I too will add prayers for you , him and this situation .

 

[B1Toad]

Maybe start by just going for a visit and gradually working it into conversation, or what about asking him for help on some of your projects which could get a work exchange going between you both, and maybe even some new meaning in his life.

 

[diggerwolf]

When my mom died a few years ago, I planned a wake at my house. Many people, including her other son - my brother, offered to help. None of them actually did.

Except my best friend. He didn't ask. He just showed up and started helping. I can't begin to describe how much that still means to me.

 

[bucky]

Thanks for the responses talking about it really helps me. I talked to my Daughter today. We had planned to take the YJ and TJ up to the mountains on Sun for lunch. We decided that we will stop by his place on the way back and see if we can convince him to let us help him with the clean up. I’m retired and have the time and equipment to help. Time on the tractor is always a fun for me. My Dad and FIL were alcoholics and I learned early in life that there are personal demons that lead up to it. My Wife’s family spent $40K sending my FIL to the Betty Ford clinic for 6 weeks. While he was there we did a treasure hunt in the house, barn and surrounding orange groves. We found half empty Jim Beam bottles everywhere. He was home for only a few hours he found a bottle we missed and was drunk. I stopped by his house one afternoon to use their phone, pre cellphone, and found him sitting in his recliner with a tumbler of Jim Beam next to him dead. He was only 63. His heart stopped from malnutrition because drank instead of eating. When I was in school I participated in Al-Anon and it help me understand my Fathers addiction. He died in his early 60s also.

 

[ColoJeep]

Thanks for the responses talking about it really helps me. I talked to my Daughter today. We had planned to take the YJ and TJ up to the mountains on Sun for lunch. We decided that we will stop by his place on the way back and see if we can convince him to let us help him with the clean up. I’m retired and have the time and equipment to help. Time on the tractor is always a fun for me. My Dad and FIL were alcoholics and I learned early in life that there are personal demons that lead up to it. My Wife’s family spent $40K sending my FIL to the Betty Ford clinic for 6 weeks. While he was there we did a treasure hunt in the house, barn and surrounding orange groves. We found half empty Jim Beam bottles everywhere. He was home for only a few hours he found a bottle we missed and was drunk. I stopped by his house one afternoon to use their phone, pre cellphone, and found him sitting in his recliner with a tumbler of Jim Beam next to him dead. He was only 63. His heart stopped from malnutrition because drank instead of eating. When I was in school I participated in Al-Anon and it help me understand my Fathers addiction. He died in his early 60s also.

May strength be with you as you head down this difficult road . Thank You for being a stand up guy .

 

[Gilaguy23]

Im sorry for the loss of a friend. Its hard to say what would have changed him as folks sometimes "give up" so to say. We recently moved across country and left 2 of the best friends I had, both alcoholics. One in such poor health now, I suspect his fate the same as your friends, the other to young, but headed full speed to a divorce and health issues. I tried to help, then avoided them as I had my issues with abuse when I was younger and could not go there again. I typically got ragged on for trying to help. I cant imagine your friend not appreciating any help at his place if you had, but Id expect no help as the will to care leaves as I mentioned. Life is short, friends are of great significance to one another. Just understand you cant help somebody who wont help themselves. I've tried, I've lost a few to suicide or drugs. Don't blame yourself for not trying harder.

 

[suicideking]

Sorry about your friend and passed family members.

I'm a firm believer that if someone doesn't want help, you're not going to be able to help him with the drinking. It's harder than drugs to quit. Especially since you can't drive anywhere without passing a liquor store.

As far as recovering his house, that might be doable. I'd show up and say you just fixed your winch and looking for a reason to try it out. Or something like that. Then just start helping him. He will know what you're doing. If he stops you, I'd keep going again. If he really resists after that, then let him be and know that you tried.

My dad was similar, just stubborn. Passed a few years ago and wouldn't accept help for most things.

 

[Head Lice]

Tough one for sure, with really no good solutions.
You and a few friends might want to plan a day when he's away
and just go do the job. Be prepared to forfeit your frendship with this man.
He'll never agree or be happy with your help as it shows weakness on his part
and he most likely hasn't the resources to return a favor in the future.
Bottom line: You help without consent, you lose him.
Good luck to you, and your concern is what makes you a friend
although it will be one way friendship afterward.

 

[Squatch]

Hey @bucky, any updates on the situation with your friend? With Christmas having come and gone, and being a bit deeper into the winter season, I'm curious if you and your friends were able to come up with some sort of resolution to this. Praying there's some good news in your response...

 

[bucky]

My Daughter and I went up to see him 2 weeks ago. He got a letter from his insurance company and was just going to throw it out as junk but decided to open it. In side was a check for $100K. He bought a Chinese mini excavator and what I would describe as a ride on tracked wheel barrow on Market place. We dug out around his outside water heater. I replaced all the piping and got that going so he has hot water now.
There is at least 100+ tons of rock and wood debris that need to be removed. With his small equipment it’s going to take months to remove everything. After 3 months small progress is happening. Unfortunately my Kubota tractor is at the dealer getting a $4K injector pump replaced. When that comes back I’ll get up there with my dump trailer and I can move more debris. Luckily the County has an area close by where we can dump what we remove.

 

[sab]

Well that’s some good news!