In need of some direction for my build

[Mikefcf]

Hey y'all, Im new here(first post) but this is aways my go to forum for anything I'm looking for, you guys are great here. So I have a 2006 65th anniversary edition wrangler that im working on giving a nice refresher. Once this build is done It will be seeing the trails a lot more for sure but still will be on the road more than the trails. Im redoing the lift and went with a MC 3.5". I ordered the whole kit except the control arms since those were replaced 5 years ago, the front and rear tracs and my steering is all shot so I ordered their new crossover steering kit, I believe its called the T style rather than the original Y style. The only thing holding me up is the shocks, steering box and body lift but im not to sure which to order. I honestly never had to do a deep dive into shocks until now and came across the fox 2.0 adventure series. From what Ive found between them and performance is the steel body compared to the performance aluminum. Now I live in the Phoenix area so it does get pretty toasty out here but had the local shops say the adventure series steel body should be fine because it'll never heat up to were the aluminum makes a difference. I was ready to pull the trigger on ordering up a set but my buddy is a mechanic and says they get a lot of the fox 2.0s in to be rebuilt. I had my heart set on either that adventure or performance series but now that bit of info is making me second guess on that set. Does anyone have some input on this, are fox shocks going to have me back in the shop for rebuilds more often for a vehicle that doesn't get beat on?

Im also not to sure with what direction I should go with my steering box. Is it preferred to go with a brand new one or rebuild my current box? The rebuilt is going to be $450 or a new box is around $500. don't plan on getting a set up for hydraulic steering anytime soon either. If a new box is preferred, any recommendations on a specific manufacturer?

after I get that all ordered up im in need of some tires. im sticking with 33's for now until I cn save up for a bigger front axle. Its the dana 30 right now so I think 33s will be just fine until then since that's what was on previously. I don't want to push that axle with 35s. Looking at all terrains/ mild m/ts. was thinking about Mickeys Baja legend MTZs or something along those lines. And lastly getting a small 1-1 1/4" body for a nice look. I have no clue on a decent body lift to go with. Ive never had one on any of my previous jeeps but I think it'll give it that perfect looking stance.

Any input would be greatly appreciated guys!

 

[macleanflood]

Best of the best steering box is PSC. I gambled on a Redhead, and it's doing fine.

I like my Black Max shocks. They pair wonderfully with my Swayloc dual rate swaybar.

Black Magic Brakes has a great body lift kit.

You're not going to find much love for that Metalcloak steering setup here. I went with Currie 4" springs, CorrectLync steering, and track bars.

-Mac

 

[JMT]

@Mikefcf

You have an '06, the late model box. You are basically rolling the dice on a rebuilt box. To play it safe "buy once cry once" PSC box.

 

[Mikefcf]

Best of the best steering box is PSC. I gambled on a Redhead, and it's doing fine.

I like my Black Max shocks. They pair wonderfully with my Swayloc dual rate swaybar.

Black Magic Brakes has a great body lift kit.

You're not going to find much love for that Metalcloak steering setup here. I went with Currie 4" springs, CorrectLync steering, and track bars.

-Mac

Thank you! Ill look into those for sure. I was trying to keep it in my budget since I already am paying a good chunk of change for all this but ill see what I can do as far as the pcs box.
Black Max...ok if it rides and performs well for the price, is very appealing thanks. Im kinda surprised to hear that about the MC steering tho. From what I was told they can't keep them on the shelf over at MC. I actually had to wait a few extra weeks for them to fill my order for that. I was under the impression it was comparable to the Correctlync. I actually was going to go with that correctlync but the tech who was helping me with all this talked up the MC to be just as good if not better, but he also backed out of the build on me for no reason after everything was order . Oh well im gonna run it and will see. Thanks again

 

[Mikefcf]

@Mikefcf

You have an '06, the late model box. You are basically rolling the dice on a rebuilt box. To play it safe "buy once cry once" PSC box.

Is there something in-between better than a rebuild and not as pricey as the pcs that will do? Im trying to keep this in a budget since im already looking at over 4k depending on these other parts I get. but if it really is that much of a no brainer on the pcs then ill do what's needed. Im def a buy once cry once type person which is why its adding so quickly hah. Thanks again

 

[JMT]

Is there something in-between better than a rebuild and not as pricey as the pcs that will do? Im trying to keep this in a budget since im already looking at over 4k depending on these other parts I get. but if it really is that much of a no brainer on the pcs then ill do what's needed. Im def a buy once cry once type person which is why its adding so quickly hah. Thanks again

I don’t know of any other boxes that are sure fire. They all seem to get reviews that are shots in the dark. You can research how to change the backlash on your steering gear and tighten clockwise about 1/8 turn to see if that makes a difference. If so then the box is on the way out.

For shocks, not Fox. Unless they are tunable (and the one’s you’re looking at are not) then they ride way to stiff for our light TJ’s. Black Max, Rancho 5000X.

Body Lift - Black Magic Brakes has the best and reasonable too.

Dana 30 with 4140 chromoly shafts will easily run 35’s all day long.

33’s really need at least 3” of total lift, and ideally 4”.

 

[jjvw]

...

You're not going to find much love for that Metalcloak steering setup here. I went with Currie 4" springs, CorrectLync steering, and track bars.

-Mac

The problem with the Metalcloak steering isn't because it is Metalcloak. The problem with all inverted-T crossover steering on a factory TJ axle is that the very design creates tie rod roll. This translates into a dead spot in the steering that feels exactly like a worn out steering gear. The steering is vague and wanders.

All of this is perfectly fitting with Metalcloak's ethos of repackaging of old bad ideas and convincing people it is amazing.

 

[Mikefcf]

I don’t know of any other boxes that are sure fire. They all seem to get reviews that are shots in the dark. You can research how to change the backlash on your steering gear and tighten clockwise about 1/8 turn to see if that makes a difference. If so then the box is on the way out.

For shocks, not Fox. Unless they are tunable (and the one’s you’re looking at are not) then they ride way to stiff for our light TJ’s. Black Max, Rancho 5000X.

Body Lift - Black Magic Brakes has the best and reasonable too.

Dana 30 with 4140 chromoly shafts will easily run 35’s all day long.

33’s really need at least 3” of total lift, and ideally 4”.

the jeep rn has 2.5-3" but im not 100% which exactly. the original owner had it installed but its been on 33s with no clearance issues so the 33s would be fine. I do want 35s but ppl have said it will only be a matter of time before that ring gear breaks so I put them aside until I can get another 44 upfront.

Ok so then sounds like I should steer away from the fox's which may save me some $ and I guess I really should look into the black max or ranchos. the rancho 9000xl were original recommended to me by a sales guy from extreme terrain but tbh I was always under the impression that ranchos were cheap. would you say 5000s over 9000 or the black max over those two? when It comes to the box, I think im going to take your guys advice on the pcs. I know they're top performers and I hear ya with buy once cry once. Its best to spend the extra money and do it right. would you say the Big Bore XD Cylinder Assist Steering Gearbox is the one you're talking about? im thinking the pump and res can be held off on for a bit since mine are good as of now. then I could replace them once I get some extra saved up.

As far as the BMB body those are made of acetal, that's preferred over poly? Its a less giving material, that won't make the ride a bit hard? Im assuming there difference is so minimal you won't really notice a difference. just wondering for my own knowledge, the website doesn't say to much. will I need to look into motor mounts for when the body lift gets put in?

 

[jjvw]

...
As far as the BMB body those are made of acetal, that's preferred over poly? Its a less giving material, that won't make the ride a bit hard? Im assuming there difference is so minimal you won't really notice a difference. just wondering for my own knowledge, the website doesn't say to much. will I need to look into motor mounts for when the body lift gets put in?

The Black Magic body lift retains the factory body mount isolaters. That is where the isolation comes from. Any acceptable body lift is a solid non-compressible material because we need the isolaters to function properly by allowing the body mount bolts to reach proper torque. A squishy body lift, like JKS, defeats the proper function of the isolaters.

 

[Mikefcf]

The problem with the Metalcloak steering isn't because it is Metalcloak. The problem with all inverted-T crossover steering on a factory TJ axle is that the very design creates tie rod roll. This translates into a dead spot in the steering that feels exactly like a worn out steering gear. The steering is vague and wanders.

All of this is perfectly fitting with Metalcloak's ethos of repackaging of old bad ideas and convincing people it is amazing.

Right and this is exactly why I was I guess convinced the t crossover was the best option. the tie rod roll was never brought to my attention tho. One guy was trying to sell me on the RPM high steer kit but bc of the design of the tj, the bump steer would have been worse. it was explained to me that with the t style it had the least amount of bump steer. wish I thought about the air rod roll. So would you say the original y style is the best option of the three? (Y style, t style and high steer)

 

[jjvw]

Right and this is exactly why I was I guess convinced the t crossover was the best option. the tie rod roll was never brought to my attention tho. One guy was trying to sell me on the RPM high steer kit but bc of the design of the tj, the bump steer would have been worse. it was explained to me that with the t style it had the least amount of bump steer. wish I thought about the air rod roll. So would you say the original y style is the best option of the three? (Y style, t style and high steer)

The factory inverse-Y steering is the best steering for factory axles because it provides very responsive steering with no perceivable bump steer. Any kind of crossover steering makes the steering worse than factory by introducing bump steer and/or vagueness.

Your options to retain the factory inverse-Y steering with added strength are either the ZJ tie rod or RockJock steering.

 

[Mikefcf]

The Black Magic body lift retains the factory body mount isolaters. That is where the isolation comes from. Any acceptable body lift is a solid non-compressible material because we need the isolaters to function properly by allowing the body mount bolts to reach proper torque. A squishy body lift, like JKS, defeats the proper function of the isolaters.

ohhh...so in other BL kits they don't fit into the isolators? I've seen where its almost like they fit on top and measures almost 1/2-3/4" taller than lets say that 1" BL that was installed. Like it will be a true 1" or 1-1/4" bc everything fits. I follow you if I explained that correctly. hah

 

[jjvw]

ohhh...so in other BL kits they don't fit into the isolators? I've seen where its almost like they fit on top and measures almost 1/2-3/4" taller than lets say that 1" BL that was installed. Like it will be a true 1" or 1-1/4" bc everything fits. I follow you if I explained that correctly. hah

What you specifically care about is that the body lift spacer is non-compressible. That is why the Black Magic body lift description mentions this specific detail. You also want a body lift that retains the factory body mount isolaters. Black Magic also does this.

With those two aspects in place, then the height of the body lift will always be equal to the height of the spacer on top of the isolater.

 

[Mikefcf]

The factory inverse-Y steering is the best steering for factory axles because it provides very responsive steering with no perceivable bump steer. Any kind of crossover steering makes the steering worse than factory by introducing bump steer and/or vagueness.

Your options to retain the factory inverse-Y steering with added strength are either the ZJ tie rod or RockJock steering.

dang, so it sounds like I made the wrong purchase these guys selling sh!t made it sound like I was making the best decision with this MC one. Its weird to me that these companies would make a kit if its not the correct route to take. ugh

 

[jjvw]

dang, so it sounds like I made the wrong purchase these guys selling sh!t made it sound like I was making the best decision with this MC one. Its weird to me that these companies would make a kit if its not the correct route to take. ugh

You will almost always go wrong with Metalcloak. Any and all of it is founded on gimmicks and misrepresentations.

 

[Mikefcf]

What you specifically care about is that the body lift spacer is non-compressible. That is why the Black Magic body lift description mentions this specific detail. You also want a body lift that retains the factory body mount isolaters. Black Magic also does this.

With those two aspects in place, then the height of the body lift will always be equal to the height of the spacer on top of the isolater

You will almost always go wrong with Metalcloak. Any and all of it is founded on gimmicks and misrepresentations.

honestly im pretty shocked to hear that. I originally was looking at the savvy 4" but had three different Offroad shops recommend the MC over any when I was trying to find the right builder. not to discredit your opinion, I appreciate all your help but just surprised. wish I was able to do this myself but I have zero time working 6 days a week. if I did it myself id be out of a vehicle for weeks.

 

[Mikefcf]

I will be going with the BMB BL tho

 

[jjvw]

honestly im pretty shocked to hear that. I originally was looking at the savvy 4" but had three different Offroad shops recommend the MC over any when I was trying to find the right builder. not to discredit your opinion, I appreciate all your help but just surprised. wish I was able to do this myself but I have zero time working 6 days a week. if I did it myself id be out of a vehicle for weeks.

The arguments for or against are all based on function and design. It is why we can defend and learn from the original Savvy TJ product line, and also negatively critique the new Savvy redesigns.

 

[JMT]

but its been on 33s with no clearance issues so the 33s would be fine. I do want 35s but ppl have said it will only be a matter of time before that ring gear breaks so I put them aside until I can get another 44 upfront.

People said, huh? Well, people don’t always know what they’re talking about. Normal, right? All of what you said is fundamentally wrong. Maybe FB is the problem.

 

[Mikefcf]

People said, huh? Well, people don’t always know what they’re talking about. Normal, right? All of what you said is fundamentally wrong. Maybe FB is the problem.

so going into this when I explained to the builder that I was open to 35s but wanted to do this the right way. The right way he said was to 86 the dana 30 bc he said there is only so much I could do to build up a strong dana 30, that at the end of the day the ring gear is taking on all that work and with 35s that ring gear would eventually break. this was coming from a TJ specialist too, I don't do FB. this form is my go to. my plan was to get a better front axle but I was checking out your setup and looks like its doable without that axle swap.