Novak Conversions Jeep Wrangler TJ engine mounts

Front Drive Shaft Details

This is one of those times where you cheap out now and pay more later. Team new driveshaft here.

Have you priced a local driveline shop to build you a new one vs online?
 
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But I can't understand the value advantage here of 100 vs almost 600?
This thread is yet another demonstration of the "value is subjective" principle. Only you can make that value-based decision. You don't need the forum's blessing on it, and you won't get the forum's blessing because some forum members are in the fix-it value camp and some are in the replace-it value camp.

Full disclosure: I'm in the replace-it value camp. However, it offends me not what you decide to do...
 
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This thread is yet another demonstration of the "value is subjective" principle. Only you can make that value-based decision. You don't need the forum's blessing on it, and you won't get the forum's blessing because some forum members are in the fix-it value camp and some are in the replace-it value camp.

Full disclosure: I'm in the replace-it value camp. However, it offends me not what you decide to do...

I'm in both the fix it and replace it value camps, depending on multiple factors. In this case, I am aware of what can occur when a centering ball seizes and that the centering ball pin cannot be replaced by most in their garage.
 
I rebuilt my front drive shaft several years ago, after which I had a thrumming vibration at 55 mph or higher. I had the shaft re-balanced and straightened at a drive shaft shop and that helped slightly. By now I was in for about $250. I finally threw in the towel and bought a new drive shaft from Tom Woods. The vibration was gone, totally. My recommendation? Buy the new drive shaft.
 
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This is one of those times where you cheap out now and pay more later. Team new driveshaft here.

Have you priced a local driveline shop to build you a new one vs online?

Haven't gotten that far yet. But I've started looking around.

It sounds to me like the drive shift is "rebuildable" but not really.
 
Haven't gotten that far yet. But I've started looking around.

It sounds to me like the drive shift is "rebuildable" but not really.

Rebuildable, absolutely.

The centering pin though is ultimately a wear item. The centering yoke bearings have been riding on that pin for 20 years and however many miles.

The slip joint splines are a wear item. Similar to your centering pin, the slip joint has been slipping for 20 years and however many miles.

$125 for a rebuild with unknown remaining lifespan. $3-400 for a new one that could last 20 years.
 
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I rebuilt my front driveshaft at around 180k. Zero issues doing it and it’s running great. Mine wasn’t worn out when I rebuilt it but I was getting ready to put some serious miles on it. Just got back from a 3k mile road trip with some semi hard core off roading thrown in (soft sand) and it’s running like a champ.
 
Rebuildable, absolutely.

The centering pin though is ultimately a wear item. The centering yoke bearings have been riding on that pin for 20 years and however many miles.

The slip joint splines are a wear item. Similar to your centering pin, the slip joint has been slipping for 20 years and however many miles.

$125 for a rebuild with unknown remaining lifespan. $3-400 for a new one that could last 20 years.

I think this is the detail I was missing. It's not so much the U joints. Those can be replaced and the shaft put back together. But wear on the slip joint and centering pins is the real concern on this original drive shaft?
 
I think this is the detail I was missing. It's not so much the U joints. Those can be replaced and the shaft put back together. But wear on the slip joint and centering pins is the real concern on this original drive shaft?

The big issue is when a double cardan driveshaft seizes, in part because the centering pin is worn, and breaks the transfer case in half.
 
But wear on the slip joint and centering pins is the real concern on this original drive shaft?

Exactly. Centering pin more so for the reason @jjvw just mentioned. When the joint seizes, it will wreak havoc on the driveline.
 
I found another drive line shop as well.

Next step seems like get the old one out to measure or is is there a way to know based on the VIN? I don't want to assume, but it seems likely all TJs optioned a specific way would all have the same front drive shaft?
 
Measuring is super simple, just measure the distance from your transfer case yoke to your pinion yoke as shown below. Yes, the lengths can be fairly standard but a couple minutes of your time measuring will ensure that you get the right thing the first time around. You'll hear a lot of people say "center to center" when referring to drive shaft measurements. Center is a matter of perspective so it's important to clarify what that means, it's center of joint to center of joint, or centerline of the bearing cap. Measuring to the edges of the yoke as shown below will give you that number. The reason we tell people to measure from yoke to yoke is because if we tell people to measure center of joint to center of joint they'll often take the shaft out, lay it on a bench, and measure it. But because the shaft compresses and extends it is very important that the measurement is the "running length" the normal installed length.

From there, just make sure that whoever you order a shaft from understands how you ordered. I always say that there is not a right way and a wrong way to measure as long as we are both talking about the same way. There is no official industry standard for the proper way to measure drive shafts. Most companies will measure similarly to us though.

Side note: Someone previously said something like "Surely there's a Tom Wood's equivalent in Canada". Because international shipping is cumbersome and expensive I wish there was, just so our friends up north had more options, but if there is a similar company in Canada I haven't heard of them. I know of Pat's Driveline, and I know that there are some other local shops. At one point a few years ago I thought to myself, maybe there's an opportunity here, maybe we could set up a Tom Wood's Canada location or something like that. Then I realized that Canada only has about 1/10th of the population of the United States, making it a relatively small market. Which is probably why there are fewer options for Canadian consumers. We recently changed our international shipping policy, we no longer ship internationally because of the high shipping costs and higher rates of problems such as lost packages. We're leaving Canada open though, because I really don't want to further limit the options for Canadians.


yoketoyokesideview_062a9dea-a6af-4161-8df8-7591a32dcfa7.png
 
Measuring is super simple, just measure the distance from your transfer case yoke to your pinion yoke as shown below. Yes, the lengths can be fairly standard but a couple minutes of your time measuring will ensure that you get the right thing the first time around. You'll hear a lot of people say "center to center" when referring to drive shaft measurements. Center is a matter of perspective so it's important to clarify what that means, it's center of joint to center of joint, or centerline of the bearing cap. Measuring to the edges of the yoke as shown below will give you that number. The reason we tell people to measure from yoke to yoke is because if we tell people to measure center of joint to center of joint they'll often take the shaft out, lay it on a bench, and measure it. But because the shaft compresses and extends it is very important that the measurement is the "running length" the normal installed length.

From there, just make sure that whoever you order a shaft from understands how you ordered. I always say that there is not a right way and a wrong way to measure as long as we are both talking about the same way. There is no official industry standard for the proper way to measure drive shafts. Most companies will measure similarly to us though.

Side note: Someone previously said something like "Surely there's a Tom Wood's equivalent in Canada". Because international shipping is cumbersome and expensive I wish there was, just so our friends up north had more options, but if there is a similar company in Canada I haven't heard of them. I know of Pat's Driveline, and I know that there are some other local shops. At one point a few years ago I thought to myself, maybe there's an opportunity here, maybe we could set up a Tom Wood's Canada location or something like that. Then I realized that Canada only has about 1/10th of the population of the United States, making it a relatively small market. Which is probably why there are fewer options for Canadian consumers. We recently changed our international shipping policy, we no longer ship internationally because of the high shipping costs and higher rates of problems such as lost packages. We're leaving Canada open though, because I really don't want to further limit the options for Canadians.

Thank you, this was very helpful. I had noticed looking at various shops (yours included) measuring instructions were often included and it occurred to me that is likely a common problem for consumers and vendors and made a mental note that whoever I talk to, I need to make sure we're talking the same the measuring points!
 
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G'day eh.
I'll input my two bits regarding Pat's Driveline in Toronto:

I've personally purchased 9 shafts from Pat's, one of which is my LJ's front dv. My workplace regularly does business there as well.

Pat's Driveline is solid. Recommend without hesitation.

Noteworthy also that they have been sponsors at events in the past.

Now, if Tom Woods sets up shop here some fine day, it may cause my eye to wander.... 🙂

Tim
 
Novak Conversions Jeep Wrangler TJ engine mounts