Novak Conversions Jeep Wrangler TJ radiator

Clutch Master Cylinder Issues

Rainman27

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Original poster
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Sep 10, 2021
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Location
Utah
Hello everyone,

I have been having quite the saga with my clutch master/slave cylinder and need some advice. I replaced my clutch a few weeks ago (with a Luk 05-065 kit) and replaced the clutch fork and master/slave assembly at the same time. I replaced everything as the symptoms I had were either indicative of a bad throw-out bearing and pilot bearing or a bad master/slave so I replaced everything. The clutch install went without issue, but the master/slave system has given me nothing but trouble. Now I am on my 2nd slave and 3rd master cylinder which just went bad again.

Attempt 1: I initially replaced the system with an FTE sealed/pre-bled master/slave assembly. That assembly had a leak somewhere that would reintroduce air into the slave but not leak out fluid. I bled the system 4 times over 5 days before giving up on it and pulling out the entire system to return it.

Attempt 2: Brand new Luk master cylinder and slave cylinder from Advance. For this I used the hose off of the original since it seemed to be in good shape and in the five years I've owned the jeep, it hasn't been a problem. The new parts were put in Saturday evening (6/7) and bled by filling the reservoir and pushing the slave in/out until bubbles stopped. By the following Thursday, it got swapped for Attempt #3. When being actuated, it was very squeaky and stiff and when I pulled it out, I could hardly push it in by hand.

Attempt 3: A different Luk master cylinder (from RockAuto this time) and reusing the Attempt 2 slave as it seems fine. The next day I drove 200 miles with it without major problems. By the end of the trip it was beginning to have some resistance but nothing terrible. After sitting a day, I then drove it 200 miles back home. By the end of that trip it was getting bad and now as of today is it is officially as bad as the Attempt #2 was before I swapped it, the same number of days later (~7 days). I was suspicious that maybe the Attempt #2 master wasn't fully bled or the internal seals went from being dry to being used in like 30 minutes so the seals were unhappy and died. So for Attempt #3 I filled the master and let it soak for ~1hr before installing it which doesn't seem to have made a difference.

Both Attempt 2 and 3 were very smooth without any resistance when freshly installed so I doubt the throw-out bearing sliding surface, clutch springs, input shaft splines or slave cylinder is causing issues.

To me this seems like Luk (or Luk's supplier) doesn't know how to spec seal material and about a week is how long it takes for the brake fluid to eat the seals. I used Prestone Dot 3 as per the reservoir cap, although maybe Prestone has some additive that these seals don't like? I hoped to avoid any production batch issues by buying from two different retailers.

Is there a better brand I should try? I went with FTE and Luk as they should be quality parts compared to some parts store or Amazon brand. Or do I just keep swapping them until I get lucky with a good one? Unfortunately the OE master has since sat out in the rain for 2 weeks so it probably wouldn't work to swap it back in.
 
I used the LUK master/slave sealed unit in mine. No bleeding required. Fluid is already in it. Zero issues in over 6 years. Stop mixing old parts with new.

p.s. "Attempt 2: Brand new Luk master cylinder and slave cylinder from Advance. For this I used the hose off the original.
Attempt 3: A different Luk master cylinder (from RockAuto this time) and reusing the Attempt 2 slave as it seems fine."
 
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I did mine three times last year.

First time was failure of what was likely the original. I used a sealed unit from Advance Auto Parts.. made by Duralast. It didn't.

Replaced that with the LUK kit which was fine until the NV3550 went. Somehow it took the slave with it. So that one got replaced by another LUK when I did the AX15 swap. That one, the third, created headaches for a few months with creaking and squeaking which after much cursing and a bunch of silicone spray has been great since then.
 
I will give some silicone spray a try tonight and see how it goes.

What part number should I use for the Luk completed assembly? It doesn't appear that they make one for the 2003 year. From the pictures they all look the same but CRS035 "only fits" 97-99 and CRS011 fits 00-02. I assume either of them will work as for all of 97-06, the individual part numbers are the same. (master: LMC357, slave: LSC309).
 
I will give some silicone spray a try tonight and see how it goes.

What part number should I use for the Luk completed assembly? It doesn't appear that they make one for the 2003 year. From the pictures they all look the same but CRS035 "only fits" 97-99 and CRS011 fits 00-02. I assume either of them will work as for all of 97-06, the individual part numbers are the same. (master: LMC357, slave: LSC309).
It's not well documented, but I believe the different master/slave assemblies will work across the years, as I don't believe the pedal or transmission hookup changed in any of them. The pedal assembly itself was the same from 97-06. The block off plate for the MC hole in the firewall on automatics was the same part number across all years. Mopar used the same base part number for the master/slave cylinder on all TJ years. They did update the part number a few times from AA to AB, AC, etc, but the design and fitment should all be the same as far as I can tell.

Pretty certain the aftermarket year ranges by Luk and others are just copying the factory part number updates.

If there are any differences, I'm not sure what they would be. I don't think there is any difference in the hydraulics since the firewall bolt pattern, pedal, and bellhousing designs are all the same.
 
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The only issue I had with my pre bled Luks was me...I melted one hose in half when my O2 sensor dropped on to the line when my exhaust loosened up. Then I fired the actuator pin out of the second and had to bleed my pre bled unit.

When we melted the line the trail fix was a Duralast... it's incredible how crappy that was. One second it was a 500 lb leg press and the next press you'd smash your face on the steering wheel when it went straight to the floor.

The year differences account for the different transmissions.

-Mac
 
It's not well documented, but I believe the different master/slave assemblies will work across the years, as I don't believe the pedal or transmission hookup changed in any of them. The pedal assembly itself was the same from 97-06. The block off plate for the MC hole in the firewall on automatics was the same part number across all years. Mopar used the same base part number for the master/slave cylinder on all TJ years. They did update the part number a few times from AA to AB, AC, etc, but the design and fitment should all be the same as far as I can tell.

Pretty certain the aftermarket year ranges by Luk and others are just copying the factory part number updates.

If there are any differences, I'm not sure what they would be. I don't think there is any difference in the hydraulics since the firewall bolt pattern, pedal, and bellhousing designs are all the same.

I'll give the CRS011 a try then. Looks like someone elsewhere on the forum used it on a 2006 with success and its $10 cheaper than the CRS035 for some reason. I'll update when it gets here on Monday (or if the silicone spray fixes it tonight). Thanks for the help everyone.
 
I'll give the CRS011 a try then. Looks like someone elsewhere on the forum used it on a 2006 with success and its $10 cheaper than the CRS035 for some reason. I'll update when it gets here on Monday (or if the silicone spray fixes it tonight). Thanks for the help everyone.

Reading this thread has been very helpful. Can I ask a dumb question? Where are you applying the silicone spray? I have replaced my Master/slave assembly now twice and potentially I have done something wrong, but all signs point to it still being a problem with the Master/slave. I'm willing to try anything here.
 
Reading this thread has been very helpful. Can I ask a dumb question? Where are you applying the silicone spray? I have replaced my Master/slave assembly now twice and potentially I have done something wrong, but all signs point to it still being a problem with the Master/slave. I'm willing to try anything here.

I'd start a new thread. Pictures might help!

-Mac
 
I may be looking at MC/Slave number four in 12 months.

The last one was replaced when the transmission was done. With the exception of the squeaky/ creaky pedal (which was resolved with silicone spray) it's been fine. A few days ago I started to hear a click on clutch pedal press and release. It's am going to start a new thread so I don't derail this one.
 
Time for a long overdue and underwhelming follow up to this thread:

I did buy some silicone spray and sprayed it on the cabin side of the master where the piston slides/seals on the housing. I tried it several times and each time it seemed to work a bit but by the next day it was back to full crunch.

Then the CRS011 kit arrived and I swapped that in. Like everything else so far it was perfectly smooth when first installed and then slowly went crunchy over the next week. Instead of silicone spray I tried applying some Sil-Glyde brake lube since it allegedly Dot 3/4 safe and shouldn't have a problem with the seal on the master. It didn't appear to work much better than the silicone spray (was a brief temporary fix) but I did have a hard time reaching up and actually getting it on the sliding surface in the master.

I did notice that after sitting for a few days and on cooler mornings the first few uses would be smooth but then would go right back to being crunchy. I wonder if the batch last year or this year had a tolerance issue making the seal in the master slightly oversize and it just needs to be worn in to slide freely.

I unfortunately had the rear axle go out on me so I haven't driven it since July. Hopefully I can reach a more positive conclusion in the spring once it is driving again and I can diagnose driving issues.
 
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Novak Conversions Jeep Wrangler TJ radiator