Can unbalanced tires cause vibrations that break engine bolts?

tonygperez

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I bought my first Jeep, 1999 Wrangler, a couple of months back. It has a 3" lift with 33" Mickey Thompson Baja's. On its first highway drive, it vibrated a lot. Vibrations were felt through the steering wheel and seat. I heard jeeps ride rough. I have nothing to compare it to, so I figured it was simply the Jeep riding rough. On that drive home, my driver-side engine bolts broke. Was it from the vibration??? I replaced the bolts. A month later, I put street tires on and drove 7 hours to work. Again, crazy vibrations through the steering wheel and seat. Turned out, none of my street tires were balanced! I got new tires and drove an hour today. I still have the same vibration at 60+ mph. And now my engine mounting bolts are broken again! I will have these new tires balanced one more time. Do you guys think it's the unbalanced tires causing enough force to break those bolts? I am starting to wonder if it may be something else. The driveshaft, maybe some engine issue ... or the flux capacitor. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.

Jeep Broken Engine Mounting Bolts.jpeg
 
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I believe under torqued bolts is the cause. It also looks like one of hole has had a repair.
 
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If the holes in your block are compromised you can use a mount like this one to hit unmolested bolt holes.

https://browndogindustries.com/S2883PHW-Wrangler-I6-Engine-Super-Brackets-Header.aspx

But I wouldn't do any of that until you've solved your vibration issue.

I listened to folks on this forum and took my Jeep from a shakey bump steer mess to 35s I can steer with one finger at75-80 on the freeway and run the Rubicon the next day.

Stick with it and you can fix it.

-Mac
 
Tire vibrations should not cause failed bolts in isolation, but it may exacerbate existing issues such as under-torqued or failing bolts.

My biggest concern isn’t necessarily the bolts, but the engine block itself. If your bolts are repeatedly failing or coming loose, odds are very high you will break one or more threaded holes/bosses on the block, which cannot be repaired, just jury-rigged.

If you have the cash, do the Brown Dog brackets. They have more bolts, so you’re less likely to have a failure.

Regardless of whether or not you use the Brown Dog brackets, make sure you use new Grade 8 (or Grade 10.9, where metric) fasteners from a reliable supplier (such as McMaster-Carr, Grainger, or Fastenal), and not ones that have a high probability of being counterfeit (such as Aliexpress, Amazon, etc.). Use flange bolts rather than standard hex head bolts if you can find them at a reasonable price. Flange bolts have a large washer-like head that distributes the clamping force better, and unlike a bolt with a washer, also has a higher resistance to spinning out.

Install these with a torque wrench per the torque specifications. Note that you will need to adjust these torque values if you apply any sort of additive like anti-seize or threadlocker.
 
I bought my first Jeep, 1999 Wrangler, a couple of months back. It has a 3" lift with 33" Mickey Thompson Baja's. On its first highway drive, it vibrated a lot. Vibrations were felt through the steering wheel and seat. I heard jeeps ride rough. I have nothing to compare it to, so I figured it was simply the Jeep riding rough. On that drive home, my driver-side engine bolts broke. Was it from the vibration??? I replaced the bolts. A month later, I put street tires on and drove 7 hours to work. Again, crazy vibrations through the steering wheel and seat. Turned out, none of my street tires were balanced! I got new tires and drove an hour today. I still have the same vibration at 60+ mph. And now my engine mounting bolts are broken again! I will have these new tires balanced one more time. Do you guys think it's the unbalanced tires causing enough force to break those bolts? I am starting to wonder if it may be something else. The driveshaft, maybe some engine issue ... or the flux capacitor. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.

View attachment 562447

It’s hard to tell by this photo alone, but if you look closely at that bolt fracture, it looks more like a fatigue cracking issue rather than a clean break.

Note how the break has a large number of small lines. This is a classic example of a pattern generated by bolt fatigue cracking. Essentially, a small defect or crack in the bolt starts to expand, initially very slowly, and eventually propagating most of the way through the bolt. In your case, over 80% of the bolt area was cracked at one point, and eventually the bolt failed entirely, leaving the small fast fracture zone you see on top.

This is important to know because bolt fatigue is caused by different issues than a bolt simply being overloaded and snapping off. There could be a number of different causes, all of which could lead to this type of failure. Vibration would certainly exacerbate almost any of these issues, but solving the vibration may not fix the root cause.

1st, if the bolt were to become loose, it could allow some slop in the bolted joint which can cause severe repeated reverse loads on the bolt, especially in bending. This is my theory for this one. Basically, in a properly pretensioned slip-critical joint, the force is transmitted directly between the two metal pieces by friction. The bolt doesn’t bear any appreciable load, but instead serves to clamp the two pieces together to create enough friction. If the bolt becomes loose, it will act as a pin instead, and all of the force will be transmitted through the bolt rather than the part matin in interface. This can create a host of issues, including failed bolts.

2nd, it is possible that the differential thermal expansion between the block and the bolt would cause the bolt to stretch and relax every time the engine is started. I don’t think this is likely an issue here, since it would probably affect most, if not all, TJs.

3rd, it is possible that the other bolts being under-torqued could lead to this bolt failing. If the other bolts are allowing slip, this joint could inadvertently become a pinned joint, thereby placing the bolt in unintended loading. If this happened repeatedly, it could certainly cause fatigue cracking.

4th, it is possible the bolt was substandard or counterfeit. If it had a decent surface defect on it already, that may have been enough to start a crack that could propagate through the bolt. This is also especially common with reused bolts. Realistically, in a properly clamped slip-critical joint, you can put in any fastener and torque it any amount up to the point that it yields and you’ll still be fine, as long as the bolt develops enough preload to prevent the joint from slipping. However, if it does not generate enough preload at any time, it can result in any of the aforementioned unplanned loading scenarios, which would quickly fatigue a substandard bolt.
 
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On its first highway drive, it vibrated a lot. Vibrations were felt through the steering wheel and seat. I heard jeeps ride rough. I have nothing to compare it to, so I figured it was simply the Jeep riding rough.

Unchecked vibrations can cause undue stress to other parts, like wheel bearings. On road, my Jeep rides similar to my stock Civic, you have issues to find and fix. I suggest applying the KISS method, and doing a lot of research here. Start with making sure your tires are balanced, and running a good PSI. You don't mention what your new tires are. Most of us running 33s are running load range "C" tires at 26-28 psi. After getting your tires set, I'd move to checking out steering and suspension parts, then shocks. Since this is a new vehicle to you, I'd assume minimal maintenance has been done and everything needs to be caught up on, like suspension parts and cooling system flush, etc.
 
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If the holes in your block are compromised you can use a mount like this one to hit unmolested bolt holes.

https://browndogindustries.com/S2883PHW-Wrangler-I6-Engine-Super-Brackets-Header.aspx

But I wouldn't do any of that until you've solved your vibration issue.

I listened to folks on this forum and took my Jeep from a shakey bump steer mess to 35s I can steer with one finger at75-80 on the freeway and run the Rubicon the next day.

Stick with it and you can fix it.

-Mac
I will keep at it. What changes did you make to get your ride that smooth?
 
Unchecked vibrations can cause undue stress to other parts, like wheel bearings. On road, my Jeep rides similar to my stock Civic, you have issues to find and fix. I suggest applying the KISS method, and doing a lot of research here. Start with making sure your tires are balanced, and running a good PSI. You don't mention what your new tires are. Most of us running 33s are running load range "C" tires at 26-28 psi. After getting your tires set, I'd move to checking out steering and suspension parts, then shocks. Since this is a new vehicle to you, I'd assume minimal maintenance has been done and everything needs to be caught up on, like suspension parts and cooling system flush, etc.

Will do, thank you.
 
Tire vibrations should not cause failed bolts in isolation, but it may exacerbate existing issues such as under-torqued or failing bolts.

My biggest concern isn’t necessarily the bolts, but the engine block itself. If your bolts are repeatedly failing or coming loose, odds are very high you will break one or more threaded holes/bosses on the block, which cannot be repaired, just jury-rigged.

If you have the cash, do the Brown Dog brackets. They have more bolts, so you’re less likely to have a failure.

Regardless of whether or not you use the Brown Dog brackets, make sure you use new Grade 8 (or Grade 10.9, where metric) fasteners from a reliable supplier (such as McMaster-Carr, Grainger, or Fastenal), and not ones that have a high probability of being counterfeit (such as Aliexpress, Amazon, etc.). Use flange bolts rather than standard hex head bolts if you can find them at a reasonable price. Flange bolts have a large washer-like head that distributes the clamping force better, and unlike a bolt with a washer, also has a higher resistance to spinning out.

Install these with a torque wrench per the torque specifications. Note that you will need to adjust these torque values if you apply any sort of additive like anti-seize or threadlocker.
Thank you. The Brown Dog brackets seem to be a common recommendation. I will definitely get them
 
I definitely recommend engine brackets to fix your problem, but I highly recommend Stinky Fab Racing over Brown Dog. I’ve had both.

And as stated by others, the shaking won’t cause the problem but it could make the problem of weak bosses or loose bolts worse.
 
It’s hard to tell by this photo alone, but if you look closely at that bolt fracture, it looks more like a fatigue cracking issue rather than a clean break.

Note how the break has a large number of small lines. This is a classic example of a pattern generated by bolt fatigue cracking. Essentially, a small defect or crack in the bolt starts to expand, initially very slowly, and eventually propagating most of the way through the bolt. In your case, over 80% of the bolt area was cracked at one point, and eventually the bolt failed entirely, leaving the small fast fracture zone you see on top.

This is important to know because bolt fatigue is caused by different issues than a bolt simply being overloaded and snapping off. There could be a number of different causes, all of which could lead to this type of failure. Vibration would certainly exacerbate almost any of these issues, but solving the vibration may not fix the root cause.

1st, if the bolt were to become loose, it could allow some slop in the bolted joint which can cause severe repeated reverse loads on the bolt, especially in bending. This is my theory for this one. Basically, in a properly pretensioned slip-critical joint, the force is transmitted directly between the two metal pieces by friction. The bolt doesn’t bear any appreciable load, but instead serves to clamp the two pieces together to create enough friction. If the bolt becomes loose, it will act as a pin instead, and all of the force will be transmitted through the bolt rather than the part matin in interface. This can create a host of issues, including failed bolts.

2nd, it is possible that the differential thermal expansion between the block and the bolt would cause the bolt to stretch and relax every time the engine is started. I don’t think this is likely an issue here, since it would probably affect most, if not all, TJs.

3rd, it is possible that the other bolts being under-torqued could lead to this bolt failing. If the other bolts are allowing slip, this joint could inadvertently become a pinned joint, thereby placing the bolt in unintended loading. If this happened repeatedly, it could certainly cause fatigue cracking.

4th, it is possible the bolt was substandard or counterfeit. If it had a decent surface defect on it already, that may have been enough to start a crack that could propagate through the bolt. This is also especially common with reused bolts. Realistically, in a properly clamped slip-critical joint, you can put in any fastener and torque it any amount up to the point that it yields and you’ll still be fine, as long as the bolt develops enough preload to prevent the joint from slipping. However, if it does not generate enough preload at any time, it can result in any of the aforementioned unplanned loading scenarios, which would quickly fatigue a substandard bolt.
Wow! Very insightful. Those bolts came from Amazon I believe. Thank you
 
I definitely recommend engine brackets to fix your problem, but I highly recommend Stinky Fab Racing over Brown Dog. I’ve had both.

And as stated by others, the shaking won’t cause the problem but it could make the problem of weak bosses or loose bolts worse.

I will check them out. Thank you
 
Those bolts came from Amazon I believe.

That could be an issue too. Find out the OE bolt specs and buy from a reputable source, like a dealership or hardware store. Just know, if you buy from a hardware store, the bolts may or may not have the proper coating to prevent corrosion.