California and firearms

[StG58]

So, spousal unit and I are headed down to Brookings, OR next week for ten days or so on our annual vacation. She really wants to go see the Redwoods.

We both carry pistols, as a matter of course out in the woods. Usually a 1911 each. I was looking at California gun laws online, and it appears that if they are unloaded and locked up, we are OK. BUT, Cali being Cali, what is the real deal? Are we asking for a heap of trouble?

 

[Chris]

Can't comment on the law in Cali (though I am curious to know), but good choice on sidearm. I also carry a Colt 1911. Easily one of my favorite pistols ever made.

 

[StG58]

You'd like these Chris. Mine is a Series 80 Gold Cup Elite and the wife's is a Kimber. They both shoot wonderfully with my hand loads, though mine does balance better in the hand.

It's natural enough for us to carry that I didn't even think about California's gun laws until we were about to shove off. This should be a good trip in any event. Taking the TJ on an expedition through the backwoods down there to do a little exploring. Maybe hook up with some old friends in Cave Junction. Just messing about off the beaten path, mostly.

 

[Chris]

Mine is a Series 70 in the stainless steel color. Very nice guns these colts are. I had a guy ask me why I didn't just buy a Glock since they are more reliable.

I laughed and told him that buying a Glock is the same as buying a Honda Civic. Sure, it's reliable as hell, but it doesn't have the kind of soul that a classic 1911 has!

 

[Stinger]

Not exactly sure what Cali's law are. I do know a very good friend of mine has chosen to leave his guns (all of them) with his Dad in Oregon!

I fired thousands of rounds,seriously thousands, thru my 1911 while vacationing in Viet Nam in 1970. When the bullets strike pattern looked like a major league pitchers pattern- fast, but all over the place- is take it back to the armorer for a new barrel. Like that weapon. Be warned-— I shot a water buffalo right between the eyes from about 5 feet and it really pissed him off!

 

[atrizzy]

As a side note for those carrying guns in the wilderness for protection against wildlife, it has been conclusively shown that bear spray is a far more effective deterrent than firearms against both grizzly and black bear attacks.

The rate of deterrence is something like 90% for the spray vs 60% for the bullets. This is a highly significant statistic.

 

[Chris]

As a side note for those carrying guns in the wilderness for protection against wildlife, it has been conclusively shown that bear spray is a far more effective deterrent than firearms against both grizzly and black bear attacks.

The rate of deterrence is something like 90% for the spray vs 60% for the bullets. This is a highly significant statistic.

I didn't know that, but I am glad you told me! I'll definitely heed this advice.

 

[StG58]

Not once, in 45+ years in the back country, have I ever felt the need shoot wildlife in defense. Though the damned raccoons have pushed me to the edge more than once. That includes one visit to camp by a curious cougar in the middle of the night up above the tree line on Mt. Hood. Some friends and I were up there to do a little rock climbing. Silly bugger came into camp after we were bedded down, and was checking us out. It sniffed my feet while I was sleeping and woke me up. No idea who was more startled, it or me, but I've been eyeball to eyeball with a reasonable sized cougar on Mt Hood. It left in a hurry, and I was awake for awhile. Incidentally, cougars around here are normally not nocturnal, rarely go above the tree line, and are uniquely adept at avoiding humans.

There was a meme floating around that had a picture of a really nice Wilson Combat and the words "Just like a Glock, but for adults." on it. Made me laugh. If I find it, I'll post it up.

I just realized that asking for practical legal advice on a Jeep forum is really silly. Carry on.

 

[atrizzy]

Not once, in 45+ years in the back country, have I ever felt the need shoot wildlife in defense. Though the damned raccoons have pushed me to the edge more than once. That includes one visit to camp by a curious cougar in the middle of the night up above the tree line on Mt. Hood. Some friends and I were up there to do a little rock climbing. Silly bugger came into camp after we were bedded down, and was checking us out. It sniffed my feet while I was sleeping and woke me up. No idea who was more startled, it or me, but I've been eyeball to eyeball with a reasonable sized cougar on Mt Hood. It left in a hurry, and I was awake for awhile. Incidentally, cougars around here are normally not nocturnal, rarely go above the tree line, and are uniquely adept at avoiding humans.

There was a meme floating around that had a picture of a really nice Wilson Combat and the words "Just like a Glock, but for adults." on it. Made me laugh. If I find it, I'll post it up.

I just realized that asking for practical legal advice on a Jeep forum is really silly. Carry on.

I also spend my fair share of time in the mountains and have had a few benign bear encounters, though no cougars quite yet.
Without a doubt, the most effective avoidance of bears that I have found consists of the human voice, yelling, hollering, carrying on. Twice as frequently near creeks or streams. Since I started doing that I haven't even had to reach for my bear banger once, much less the spray.

 

[Rob5589]

Guns in locked container, mags out of gun but can be in same container. Mags have to be 10 round or less, not generally an issue with a 1911. You can open carry in the national forest. If you are in any of the state/fed parks open carry is a no go. CC is good but, you do not have a CA ccw so that is out. I always have a gun with me, mainly for animals of the two legged variety.

 

[StG58]

The peak predators around here are getting quit acclimated to humans. Their numbers have increased substantially in the last 15 - 20 years as well. AND their normal behaviors have changed in the last ten years or so. It's been interesting to see the evolution.

Cougars have always been around, but the numbers have grown exponentially. They are not afraid of humans any longer for the most part. The females, with kittens, have started training their kittens to hunt in pairs enough that it is unremarkable to see, or at least see signs of, two adult females and three or four kittens at the same time in the same bunch. The latest example was two adult females and four almost yearling kittens on a herd of sheep. One of the neighbors shot one of the yearlings off one of his sheep, in fact. Other examples are readily available.

We have wolves now, though ODFW either denies it or is non-committal about it. Over on the east side of Mt. Hood there is one pack, and possibly two. They seem to be hanging out in the White River area and the Badger Lake Wilderness area. Wolf packs tend to concern me a bit.

Coyotes are bloody everywhere, one pooped in my front yard this spring. Bloody thing looked right at me, took a dump, and ran off. I felt insulted.

Our little black bears are becoming pretty common pests at the rural - urban interface. Absolutely freaks the bunny huggers out when one decides to hang out in a school yard to munch the berries growing along the fence line. The incoherent gibberish that is spewed forth loudly and in great volumes when a little bear is in close proximity to their school age children cracks me up. The authorities are mobilized and it looks like an assault on Point Du Hoc or something.

Surprisingly, no one has been killed or maimed in a long while.

 

[StG58]

Guns in locked container, mags out of gun but can be in same container. Mags have to be 10 round or less, not generally an issue with a 1911. You can open carry in the national forest. If you are in any of the state/fed parks open carry is a no go. CC is good but, you do not have a CA ccw so that is out. I always have a gun with me, mainly for animals of the two legged variety.

Thanks @Rob5589 , that's what I read online as well. As a practical matter, and from your experience, if it's locked up under the seat there shouldn't be any issues?

 

[Rob5589]

Has to be a inside a locked container. Glove box, center console, etc do not suffice. As long as it is locked in a container it can be placed anywhere in the vehicle. "Container" isn't specific either. I use a soft case that I lock with a suitcase style lock.

 

[StG58]

Thanks Robb5589, I have an under seat Tuffy lock box in the TJ just for these eventualities. That should work.

 

[Rob5589]

The general consensus is that since the box is attached to the vehicle it would not suffice under the statute as it could be considered a "utility container."

1. Under California law a concealed handgun can legally be transported with a motor vehicle without a permit only by carrying it:
   • Unloaded
   • Locked in the vehicle's trunk or in a separate locked container other than the utility or glove compartment
   • If the vehicle does not have a trunk, it must be carried in a "locked container" separate from the utility or glove compartment.
2. Penal Code Section 12026.1 defines "locked container" as a secure container that is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, key lock, combination lock, or similar locking device. Locked container does not include the glove compartment or utility compartment.
3. Ammunition cannot be attached to the handgun in any manner. Under most circumstances, a firearm is considered loaded when there is a live round of ammunition "...in, or attached in any manner to, the firearm, including, but not limited to: in the firing chamber, magazine or clip thereof attached to the firearm..." For example, a semi-automatic handgun with an empty firing chamber and a loaded magazine inserted in the magazine well is considered loaded. There is no prohibition in the state codes against also carrying ammunition within the same motor vehicle or compartment in the vehicle, as long as the firearms are not loaded and ammunition is not attached in any manner to the firearm. - Penal Code Sections 12025, 12026, 12031.
4. "Utility compartment" is not defined in the Penal Code. A handgun should not be transported in the center console (even if locked) or in the storage area present behind the rear seat in most hatchback type automobiles. Because of the uncertainty in current California law, it is inadvisable to use the various storage compartments found in sport utility vehicles.
5. While it is legal in California to carry an unloaded handgun in plain sight in the passenger compartment, it is not advised. It can lead to unfavorable attention and an encounter with the police. If the gun slips between the seats or otherwise out of sight, it is no longer "in plain sight" and therefore illegal. No longer the case, has to be locked in container.
6. Penal Code Section 12026.2 states that carrying a handgun in your car even in a locked container is only for the purpose of transporting from one specific location to another (going to the range, going hunting, etc.). It is illegal to carry a firearm without a permit, even in a locked container in your car, for general purposes such as self-defense.
7. These requirements for handguns also apply to the transportation of "assault weapons" and .50 BMG rifles.
8. When driving a motor home, it is treated as a motor vehicle and all requirements listed above apply.

 

[StG58]

Thanks, once again for the reply and clarification. All I have to say to the powers that be in California is "Are you shitting me!?". I can put it in a soft case, lock it with a luggage lock and be OK, but putting it into a strong, permanently attached steel box that is near impossible to steal or break into puts me at risk of violating the law? Yes, well, very good then. I guess the wife really doesn't need to see another big tree that badly. I hope someone in California feels safer because I'm not there with my pistol. I do appreciate your time and effort to respond to this thread, @Rob5589 , and explaining all this to me. I read that elsewhere, and thought we were golden.

 

[Rob5589]

Thanks for not coming down with your scary guns. I feel so much safer now

That far up north really is beautiful. The coastal redwoods, beaches, mountains, is really something. It is unfortunate that we are outnumbered by liberals that want to ban everything. Don't let that scare you away, however. If the wife really wants to, come on down and enjoy yourselves.

"Are you shitting me!?"

Pretty much sums up a lot about Kalifornia.