Build Planning

[Mike_H]

I'm at a cross-roads with my jeep. I feel its built pretty well, as it sits, for 90% of the what I do with it. The issue is that I still have a burning desire to do something with it. I have just been enjoying it, but I love to build stuff

For those unfamiliar, a link to my build thread is in my signature, but I'll put the short story below:

2004 Rubicon
285/70R17 MFG KM2s
2" OME Springs
1.25"ish JKS body lift
JKS tracbars, front and rear
Anti-rock up front
Currie Control arms (all 8)
Bilsten 5100 shocks.
Lifted Gas Tank (1")
Savvy cable shifter for T-case

I'm currently set up for about 5 inches up travel and 3" down travel. It rides pretty well, but for that small event harshness that is typical of the 5100's.

What does it do? Pretty much all the crawling I can find in MI. I'm definitely the limit as a driver (in other words, the jeep is more capable than I am). Its a great dirt road and two track burner. It handles Drummond Island with ease, with the obvious ground clearance limitations. Its a lot of fun.

What doesn't it do? Well, I've struggled in the sand dunes. I run out of power in 4 HI and 4 Lo doesn't generate enough wheel speed for the sand. I struggle in the mud. Michigan has LOTS of mud, and rutted trails. I get hung up on the belly (factory skid) if I can't get my tires outside the ruts. That is typical, because we have forest trail. Most of the time, you gotta go through and there is not enough room to ride the edge. Trees crowd you in.

If I build, I've been thinking a lot about what I want and what my limitation are:

Start with Limitations:

• I bought a Rubicon because I didn't want to change the axles or transfer case or buy lockers. So buying axles, an atlas, etc are non-starters. That kinda locks in my tire size limit at 35's
• I want to minimize lift height. My wife is short (5'2") and already complains about getting into the jeep. Lifting it higher is going to increase the frequency of complaining. I need her support on this because "happy wife, happy life." FWIW, she likes the jeep as it is, but she also understands the my need to tinker and build stuff...well she doesn't understand it, but she understands that I NEED to do it.
• I don't want to fight DS vibrations and need a locking hub kit to eliminate them.
• I don't want to take the Jeep down for a year to do a "Build." Whatever I decide to do needs to be done in 3-4 month chucks so I can accomplish the job during the winter when I don't drive it anyway.

What do I want

• I want 35's or bigger. I can't get away from it. I thought I be ok with 33's but I just keep looking at TJ's on 35's and think...I need that. Plus, mud is nasty and the further away I can keep stuff from it, the better off I am.
• I want longer travel shocks. I want to get rid of the Bilsteins and I don't think 8" travel shocks are long enough to really get the ride and handling I desire.
• I want to be able to flat tow the jeep to out west and do Moab or the Rubicon...I have a motorhome and the plan has always been to keep the Wrangler as a toad.
• I want to maintain a relatively stock look. I love the idea of a sleeper. I'm not a fan of the typical flat fenders that are commonly available on the market. I don't mind the highline look, if properly executed. I also don't mind a full on fender delete (similar to Fred William's Tubesock jeep) but I'd rather keep my fenders.
• I want to maintain streetability. If I'm honest, going for a sunday cruise on pavement is JUST as important to me as having a capable wheeling rig and I probably use it 10 times more for that purpose than for wheeling. To that end, it needs to look good (IMHO, anyway). So, I'm not opposed to changing things, but if and when I do, it will need to be well thought out and executed, so that it can be finished and made to look "presentable." Basically, I don't want something that looks like a street legal trail rig. I want something that looks like a street car, but is capable of wheeling with the "big boys" (Thus the sleeper comment above).

What can I do?

I figure I have a few options. The first is replace my shocks, add a tummy tuck and get on with my life. That is probably the "best" answer. It doesn't scratch my itch of building something...but it also offers the least "risk" of falling into a deep dark place where I spend too much time and money to end up with something that doesn't work or that I don't like.

The second option is sell it and buy a JK Rubicon. 35's are a piece of cake on a JK. I'm pretty sure if I take the additional money it will take me to get to 35's on my TJ, plus the proceeds of selling my TJ, I'd be able to get into a decent JK rubicon. Maybe even one already built. Also doesn't scratch my build itch...plus there is something to the TJ that makes it feel like a real jeep to me. JK's are very nice, but I don't feel the emotional connection like I do with my TJ. Maybe its the work I've already put into the TJ? Kinda like my truck. Its very nice, but Its just a car to me. The jeep is something else. Not just a car, it feels like a reflection of me, my personality, etc. It puts a smile on my face every time I get in...I don't know if I would have that in something else.

Third option is take my build to the next level. This is the one I most want to do, but I also have the most questions about. I've always been thinking 35's in the back of my mind. So far, every mod I've done will support 35's. I might need to replace my front track bar, but everything else should be OK aside from springs and shocks. My build plan for 35's would be as follows:

• 3" springs
• 10-11 inch shocks and moving mounts around to make them fit, including outboarding the rears.
  • The goal would be to get the longer shocks while maintaining or my current 5" of uptravel.
• Some sort of highline.
  • I know that 3" of Spring lift isn't enough to get my desired 5" of uptravel with 35's. So, I have a spare set of fenders to play with, and I can get another set of supports . I will play with them to see if I can get an inch to an inch and a half more clearance while still maintaining some semblence of factory look. Pretty sure I can, but I haven't started playing with it yet, so who knows.
• Big Brake Kit
• 4.88 gears (I have a manual tranmission)
• Savvy tummy tuck.
• Cro-Mo axles, front and rear
• I have a bestop Tailgate tire carrier already, so no concerns about the heavier spare.
• I have fully adjustable control arms and the angle bracket for the rear trackbar, so no worries on setting pinion angle after TT.
• I believe the JKS front trackbar I have is only good up to 2" of lift, but I'll need to verify. If it needs to be replaced, I think I'd go Currie. After cycling my suspension, the offest they put in the frame side is nice for clearance.
• I'm currently running the ZJ tie rod. Is that enough for 35's without Hydro Assist?

Update 4/16/2020: There is another option that just popped into my head today. I was not planning on doing a full highline, as most of the DIY ones look goofy. But if I can figure out how to make it look like an AEV one, that might be ok. I have that spare set of fenders to cut up and make new inners to get the wrap around the grill shell correct. Then, it might look pretty good.

I would not need to lift anymore than the 2" I already have. I have 5" up-travel. When I unbolt my shocks, I have quite a bit of down-travel left. Could I get 10+ inches of travel with a 2" lift? I think I could. Going to have to do some measuring...

What am I missing? What questions do you guys have? Is this viable? Has it been done? If YOU'VE done it and it didn't work, Please share why. I'd rather not have three pages of comments about cousin Larry's brother who knows a guy that did exactly what I'm doing and it sucked because the curbs at the mall were taller than he thought.

Oh...I forgot to mention, I plan on doing all this work myself too, including the gear change. I love taking on the challenge and learning new skills. I've got the patience to do it, so I might as well learn.

​

 

[bobthetj03]

A lot of your jeep philosophy mirrors mine, except wanting to go to 35's. Will your wife be ok with a taller jeep, cause if you go with 3" springs and 35's, it will definitely be taller. My suggestion would be to jack the jeep up to the proposed lift height you are coveting, and have wifey ingress/egress the jeep to see if this is workable, or a pipe dream.

 

[Mike_H]

A lot of your jeep philosophy mirrors mine, except wanting to go to 35's. Will your wife be ok with a taller jeep, cause if you go with 3" springs and 35's, it will definitely be taller. My suggestion would be to jack the jeep up to the proposed lift height you are coveting, and have wifey ingress/egress the jeep to see if this is workable, or a pipe dream.

i can actually put some 3/4" spacers in and throw a borrowed set of 35's on...Its not our daily so if its possible for her to get in, I'm going to do it. I offered to make her a stirrup or throw a ladder in and she claimed that shes not old enough to need that stuff yet, so I think some of it is just complaining to complain...but I do want her to enjoy the jeep too.

 

[bobthetj03]

My wife is 5'3", so I share the same complaining issues as you, which is why my jeep is where it is currently. I just never really felt the desire to put 35's on it. I have jeep buddies that run them, but I guess I just need to be content that 33's do it for me. We are in our 50's, so the older we get, the less I desire a taller jeep.
As far as your TJ is concerned, a TT of some sort and outboarding the rear shocks for a better shock choice and more stability would top my list.

 

[Fouledplugs]

I want to minimize lift height. My wife is short (5'2") and already complains about getting into the jeep. Lifting it higher is going to increase the frequency of complaining. I need her support on this because "happy wife, happy life."

I want 35's or bigger. I can't get away from it. I thought I be ok with 33's but I just keep looking at TJ's on 35's and think...I need that. Plus, mud is nasty and the further away I can keep stuff from it, the better off I am.

I would think with 3 inch springs, a 1.25” BL, and high lines, you might have too much room in the fenders.

I think you should be good if you run 2.5 inch springs, a 1.25” BL, and highlines, there may be enough room for 35’s.

 

[2006TJ1]

Oh...I forgot to mention, I plan on doing all this work myself too, including the gear change. I love taking on the challenge and learning new skills. I've got the patience to do it, so I might as well learn.

I'm not setup for 35s nor do I plan to be but I appreciate and admire the need to tinker.

Only contribution I have at the moment in regards to the gears is if you can have someone who has done it before even just come supervise you do it, that could make a huge difference in the whole process. That's basically what I did and had I not had someone in person or readily available to ask little questions I would've thought I was doing it wrong the whole time. You can certainly search all of your little questions and concerns here or online but it makes a huge time difference to have someone there to say, yes it's okay if X happens, but you need to do Y.

 

[Fouledplugs]

As far as your TJ is concerned, a TT of some sort and outboarding the rear shocks for a better shock choice and more stability would top my list.

Agreed.

 

[Mike_H]

As far as your TJ is concerned, a TT of some sort and outboarding the rear shocks for a better shock choice and more stability would top my list.

Agreed.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure my stimulus check is going toward a Tummy Tuck. I know that will improve my Jeep regardless of tire size and its something I want to do anyway. The outboarding shocks is kind of the "last project to finish the jeep" kinda thing from what I've heard, so I'm waiting on that one. Maybe its worth trying to fit some ranchos in there temporarily...

 

[jjvw]

Sounds like you are wanting something like mine, but with a highline and an inch less spring lift.

 

[Mike_H]

Sounds like you are wanting something like mine, but with a highline and an inch less spring lift.

Yeah, kinda. I like how you have yours built. For some reason, I can't just bring myslef to do the tried and true 4" spring lift, 1" BL and 35's. I don't know why, but I want to be different. I also don't need the Mid-arm. I like the thought, but there isn't ANY reason I need to go changing my suspension that dramatically. There isn't a waterfall to climb here for 500 miles! I do keep investigating Geometry Correction though...I have a file folder full of info from Nth degree and others. I can't help myself. Suspension Design fascinates me. I wish I had pulled my head out of my ass sooner in college. I actually went to a REALLY good school to learn that...but I was too self-absorbed at the time to realize it. I checked out in the effort department..."C" for Complete!

 

[jjvw]

Mine can be copied with short arms and work very well.

The value of the Currie 4" vs a 3" is the ability to run an outboarded 12" shock with the travels split in half and not have the springs unseat. From what little I've looked into it, the Savvy 3" might be the best 3" spring for an outboard at that lift height because they are long like the Currie springs are.

 

[Mike_H]

Mine can be copied with short arms and work very well.

The value of the Currie 4" vs a 3" is the ability to run an outboarded 12" shock with the travels split in half and not have the springs unseat. From what little I've looked into it, the Savvy 3" might be the best 3" spring for an outboard at that lift height because they are long like the Currie springs are.

I've looked at springs a little bit, but not recently and not in the depth that I need to. Talking with @David Kishpaugh, he's working on a project either now or soon, to get a 12" rear and 11" front shock combined with Savvy 3" springs. Waiting to see how that goes...That would be ideal.

 

[bobthetj03]

I've looked at springs a little bit, but not recently and not in the depth that I need to. Talking with @David Kishpaugh, he's working on a project either now or soon, to get a 12" rear and 11" front shock combined with Savvy 3" springs. Waiting to see how that goes...That would be ideal.

He's working on another forum member's Rubi as we speak. I think 3" springs were mentioned, among other changes.

 

[Mike_H]

He's working on another forum member's Rubi as we speak. I think 3" springs were mentioned, among other changes.

Yeah, I know. I don't want to spoil the news for that other forum member either. I wasn't sure when it was going under the knife, but I knew it would be soon. I'm excited to see what the outcome is.

 

[psrivats]

I think the "other forum member" is also very eagerly and very patiently waiting to see how all this works out

The value of the Currie 4" vs a 3" is the ability to run an outboarded 12" shock with the travels split in half and not have the springs unseat. From what little I've looked into it, the Savvy 3" might be the best 3" spring for an outboard at that lift height because they are long like the Currie springs are.

This is what I had concluded too. I posted the lengths in this thread a while ago. I think if you don't need (or want) as much height as a 4" Currie spring, the Savvy 3" is the next best option.

 

[Mike_H]

Update to first post... Option 4...

 

[bobthetj03]

A possible highline up front maybe, but what about the rear? 2" lift, 35's? I don't see that working well. Prove me wrong.

 

[Mike_H]

The original AEV highline was for 2" lift and 35's...


https://forum.aev-conversions.com/f...ute-double-cab-for-sale/8242-2000-highline-tj

 

[Fouledplugs]

The original AEV highline was for 2" lift and 35's...


https://forum.aev-conversions.com/f...ute-double-cab-for-sale/8242-2000-highline-tjView attachment 153403

This is likely your best solution as you and your are looking for more lift without adding more spring. That, and your wife will buy off on this before she would an additional spring lift.


But like I first mentioned in this thread, if you ran a highline, a 2.5 inch spring, and the 1.25 inch body lift, there might be too much gap between the 35inch tire and fender flare. I could be wrong.


Based off that picture, it appears as if it could benefit from another inch or so. Only cycling the axles would answer that. Plus, the 1.25 inch Bl and tummy tuck is a huge advantage.

 

[JMT]

I’m not reading what anyone else suggested before making this post. I know you like to tinker and build. Taking that into consideration, and the fact you have an attachment to the TJR, my suggestion is to go ahead with the TT. Wheel that for awhile. That will scratch your itch. If you start itching again, push it to 35’s going the full highline route with 2” lift.

option 2: move west! Away from mud!