Budget control arm idea

[mobile chernobyl]

I've been reading this site and others about the Synergy dual durometer bushings (DDB) and I noticed that they sell them for about $20 to $25 per bushing in many sizes as seen here

My question is - If you place these bushings in a cheaper set of adjustable control arms - would you not reap the rewards of both adjustable length and misalignment tolerance without the downsides of the crappy bushings that typically come in these cheap control arm sets? The possible downsides I can see are:

1. The weld quality on the control arms may be very terrible... but just looking at the gratuitous welds, I'd be willing to take the risk... and re-weld as necessary as I have Tig and Mig handy
2. The shaft wall thickness may be very thin and prone to damage on rocks... again I'd be willing to guinea pig it to find out
3. The adjustable components may be of low grade - which may be at risk of stripping out...
4. The Eye diameter for the bushings in this cheap set may be non-standard - ruling out the use of the Synergy DDB replacements (I have a question about this measurement already out to the ebay seller).

The control arms in question are for sale on this eBay listing

So basically this is more of a penny pinching idea for adjustability and higher quality bushings. I'm all ears to anyone that thinks this is a terrible idea haha - that's why I figured I'd post it on this forum. I know it's a little bit of a hassle to press out the old(new) bushings and press in the synergy bushings - but I don't mind that work and have the tools to do so.

 

[2006TJ1]

Aside from the issues you already brought up, which I don't really have the knowledge to comment on, those arms appear to be single adjustable. I still have stock arms because I haven't had the need for adjustable yet, but everyone swears by at least having double adjustable lowers. Just something to think about.

 

[bobthetj03]

How much do 16 Synergy DDB's cost?

 

[2006TJ1]

How much do 16 Synergy DDB's cost?

$320-$400 I'm guessing

 

[bobthetj03]

$320-$400 I'm guessing

So, $400 for bushings, $400 for arms. Not seeing much of a savings here.

 

[2006TJ1]

So, $400 for bushings, $400 for arms. Not seeing much of a savings here.

Agreed. Just get some duroflex or JJs to start with.

 

[Jerry Bransford]

Aside from the issues you already brought up, which I don't really have the knowledge to comment on, those arms appear to be single adjustable. I still have stock arms because I haven't had the need for adjustable yet, but everyone swears by at least having double adjustable lowers. Just something to think about.

I've been running single adjustable arms for 17-18 years without ever having wished they were double adjustable.

 

[2006TJ1]

I've been running single adjustable arms for 17-18 years without ever having wished they were double adjustable.

Like I said, I can't speak from experience. I've read plenty on here that people like double lowers at least.

Would they be any easier for a newbie? Or is it really just six in one half dozen in the other, so long as you get your pinion angle set (for those with a CV driveshaft)?

 

[Jerry Bransford]

For me I use a floor jack to raise or lower the pinion angle to where I want it. Then I adjust the arm length so its bolt hole matches the bracket bolt holes and then install the bolts. That method works well for me, seldom have they needed more than one adjustment. It's been years since needing to adjust the arm lengths.

 

[glwood]

Like I said, I can't speak from experience. I've read plenty on here that people like double lowers at least.

Would they be any easier for a newbie? Or is it really just six in one half dozen in the other, so long as you get your pinion angle set (for those with a CV driveshaft)?

I would think double adjustable, while nice to have, would really be the thing to have if building in stages, with multiple changes in suspension height planned. Otherwise, set them, once the correct length is found, and forget them.

 

[jjvw]

Doubles were very nice to have during a relatively short period of lots of building, changing and adjusting. I probably did a better job dailing things in because of the convenience. I haven't touched the arm lengths in over a year. Once your done making changes, there isn't a benefit having one over another.

 

[Jerry Bransford]

I use a floor jack to raise or lower the pinion angle to where it needs to be. Then the arm length is adjusted to the length so its bolt holes match the bracket bolt holes. Insert the bolts and you're basically done. Seldom did it take more than that or maybe one more adjustment until it was good. I haven't needed to adjust arm lengths in many years so double-adjustable arms really aren't something that I've really wanted or needed.

 

[Chris]

So, $400 for bushings, $400 for arms. Not seeing much of a savings here.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[Blackjack]

I've been reading this site and others about the Synergy dual durometer bushings (DDB) and I noticed that they sell them for about $20 to $25 per bushing in many sizes as seen here

My question is - If you place these bushings in a cheaper set of adjustable control arms - would you not reap the rewards of both adjustable length and misalignment tolerance without the downsides of the crappy bushings that typically come in these cheap control arm sets? The possible downsides I can see are:

1. The weld quality on the control arms may be very terrible... but just looking at the gratuitous welds, I'd be willing to take the risk... and re-weld as necessary as I have Tig and Mig handy
2. The shaft wall thickness may be very thin and prone to damage on rocks... again I'd be willing to guinea pig it to find out
3. The adjustable components may be of low grade - which may be at risk of stripping out...
4. The Eye diameter for the bushings in this cheap set may be non-standard - ruling out the use of the Synergy DDB replacements (I have a question about this measurement already out to the ebay seller).

The control arms in question are for sale on this eBay listing

So basically this is more of a penny pinching idea for adjustability and higher quality bushings. I'm all ears to anyone that thinks this is a terrible idea haha - that's why I figured I'd post it on this forum. I know it's a little bit of a hassle to press out the old(new) bushings and press in the synergy bushings - but I don't mind that work and have the tools to do so.

Unless you have lower arms with OEM clevite bushings the DDB will not work. The upper arm DDB is a different size than the OEM clevite so you would have to rework the arm anyway. Since you are starting from scratch the only way you would see a cost savings is to build the arms yourself.

Aside from the issues you already brought up, which I don't really have the knowledge to comment on, those arms appear to be single adjustable. I still have stock arms because I haven't had the need for adjustable yet, but everyone swears by at least having double adjustable lowers. Just something to think about.

I would do the uppers double adjustable over the lowers.

I've been running single adjustable arms for 17-18 years without ever having wished they were double adjustable.

Yep you should not have to be adjusting arms all the time unless you are doing a lot of experimenting.

 

[David Kishpaugh]

Ddb do not fit stock arms or any aftermarket arms including the older style synergy arms.

You will also need to purchase synergy cold cut rings to weld on and then press in the bushings.

Synergy also has 1.25" 1" and .75" left hand thread housings. Synergy adjustables are adjustable without removing one end or messing with jam nuts.

The dual durometer bushings are far superior to duroflex joints and outlast pretty much everything we can buy. They are self centering high misalignment joints.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

 

[astjp2]

$320-$400 I'm guessing

25 each for the large ones on the lowers, 20 each for the upper rear. You have to use a JK one for the front axle and open it up to 12mm to use them. If you need adjustable uppers, you can get the Clayton Girro rod ends for $25 each and press in a DDB... or a Girro
https://www.claytonoffroad.com/products/brand/redranger

Where this pays off is if you get a set of used fixed rough country lowers for $40 and press in $100 in bushings, then get a set of upper adjustable arms to set your pinion and caster, replace rod ends and joints as needed. If your tj/lj has the cam bolts for the lowers still, you can still use the fixed lowers. That is how you do a set of cheap control arms. I wil have about $300 in a set of arms for a 4" lift...and all new joints. I dont need all new, just useable until I sell a kidney to pay for a Savvy mid arm kit.

headers are fixed now
�

	A (MOUNTING WIDTH)	B (SHELL LENGTH)	C (OD)	D (SLEEVE ID)
PPM-4320-01	2.618	2	2.267	0.563
PPM-4320-02	2.618	2	2.267	0.638
PPM-4320-03	2.618	2	2.267	0.717
PPM-4321-01	2	1.75	2.135	0.505
PPM-4321-02	2	1.75	2.135	0.402
PPM-4322-01	2.32	1.75	2.135	0.563
PPM-4323-01	1.6	1.25	1.508	0.563
PPM-4323-02	1.6	1.25	1.508	0.525
PPM-4324-01	1.6	1.25	1.657	0.563
PPM-4324-02	1.6	1.25	1.657	0.638

 

[astjp2]

One more for clarification...
https://www.claytonoffroad.com/sites/default/files/product_drawings/R71029-14.3 Drawing.PDF

 

[mobile chernobyl]

So, $400 for bushings, $400 for arms. Not seeing much of a savings here.

This method of thinking is how the rational think... Is it really rational to dump $10k into a 20 year old vehicle and drive it on a pile of rocks? Just kidding... you almost convinced me too haha

The dual durometer bushings are far superior to duroflex joints and outlast pretty much everything we can buy. They are self centering high misalignment joints.

This is an interesting statement - I've read a bit on the duroflex - but I must admit (as most do) the Metalcloak marketing is top notch! Do we have data, empirical/quantitative or even just "i've been driving A vs B for 5 years and never had A fail but B failed twice!" in origin for this? I'd like to flat out believe you because the DDB is just so simple - it follows the KISS principle.

25 each for the large ones on the lowers, 20 each for the upper rear. You have to use a JK one for the front axle and open it up to 12mm to use them. If you need adjustable uppers, you can get the Clayton Girro rod ends for $25 each and press in a DDB... or a Girro
https://www.claytonoffroad.com/products/brand/redranger

Where this pays off is if you get a set of used fixed rough country lowers for $40 and press in $100 in bushings, then get a set of upper adjustable arms to set your pinion and caster, replace rod ends and joints as needed. If your tj/lj has the cam bolts for the lowers still, you can still use the fixed lowers. That is how you do a set of cheap control arms. I wil have about $300 in a set of arms for a 4" lift...and all new joints. I dont need all new, just useable until I sell a kidney to pay for a Savvy mid arm kit.

This is what I was hoping to learn more about! I was thinking along the same lines as you actually - I was looking at the Zone 3-4" lowers - but do we know that the RC lowers will readily accept these DDB bushings? Do you know of any off-the-shelf adjustable uppers that readily accept the DDB bushings? My hope was that I'd get lucky with those eBay arms and they'd have common sizes. The DDB bushings do come in quite a few options as you posted in the table above as well.

All in all this is more just an exercise known as 'race to the bottom' - no one usually wins but it's fun to say you only spent a value less then what most JJ/Savvy/MC folk will have spent haha. If the DDB are as good as everyone really claims them to be - and they are indeed 'better' than the duroflex - it's hard not to just by the Synergy fixed lowers and the adjustable front and rear uppers.

 

[bobthetj03]

I just don't understand why one would want to go thru all the trouble of trying to figure out if Synergy joints will fit X or Y arms when the company clearly doesn't have any interest in producing TJ arms/joints anymore. They are focusing on what makes them $$$, and that is JK, JL products. Now, if you are doing it for the challenge of it, then carry on. I have over 35,000 miles on Duroflex joints with no sign of wear whatsoever, so if someone has any real data that Synergy joints are better than X or Y joints I'd like to see it.

 

[astjp2]

This method of thinking is how the rational think... Is it really rational to dump $10k into a 20 year old vehicle and drive it on a pile of rocks? Just kidding... you almost convinced me too haha



This is an interesting statement - I've read a bit on the duroflex - but I must admit (as most do) the Metalcloak marketing is top notch! Do we have data, empirical/quantitative or even just "i've been driving A vs B for 5 years and never had A fail but B failed twice!" in origin for this? I'd like to flat out believe you because the DDB is just so simple - it follows the KISS principle.



This is what I was hoping to learn more about! I was thinking along the same lines as you actually - I was looking at the Zone 3-4" lowers - but do we know that the RC lowers will readily accept these DDB bushings? Do you know of any off-the-shelf adjustable uppers that readily accept the DDB bushings? My hope was that I'd get lucky with those eBay arms and they'd have common sizes. The DDB bushings do come in quite a few options as you posted in the table above as well.

All in all this is more just an exercise known as 'race to the bottom' - no one usually wins but it's fun to say you only spent a value less then what most JJ/Savvy/MC folk will have spent haha. If the DDB are as good as everyone really claims them to be - and they are indeed 'better' than the duroflex - it's hard not to just by the Synergy fixed lowers and the adjustable front and rear uppers.

Did you miss the link to the clayton adjustable ends? https://www.claytonoffroad.com/products/brand/redranger, here is the one for an adjustable lower: https://www.claytonoffroad.com/forged_rod_end_125_12_1750_width