Novak Conversions Jeep Wrangler TJ engine mounts

Budget control arm idea

Those R-Joints look like another attempt to re-invent the Johnny Joint. I don't see the advantage of that over the Johnny Joint. Its the same steel ball in a socket idea. The biggest appeal of the DDB is that its maintenance free.

Speaking of which, I'm really tempted to use the Synderg JK bushings for the top front control arm mount on the axle. As far as I know, they will press right in. I just need to drill out my control arm clevis for a 1/2" bolt.
 
Fargo said:
Those R-Joints look like another attempt to re-invent the Johnny Joint. I don't see the advantage of that over the Johnny Joint. Its the same steel ball in a socket idea. The biggest appeal of the DDB is that its maintenance free.

Speaking of which, I'm really tempted to use the Synderg JK bushings for the top front control arm mount on the axle. As far as I know, they will press right in. I just need to drill out my control arm clevis for a 1/2" bolt.
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That is what I did, when I pressed it out of the sheetmetal mount and pressed it back in, it was loose so I JB welded it in place...
 
astjp2 said:
That is what I did, when I pressed it out of the sheetmetal mount and pressed it back in, it was loose so I JB welded it in place...
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I think that is why everyone is welding in bracket. Those sheetmetal factory mounts seem to crush on everyone.

Did you use the Synergy bushings on the axle?
 
Yes, I pressed it in with a ball joint press, it popped loose when hooking up the control arms, so I popped the bushing out, coated it with JB weld, coated the mount, used a hammer and wood block to seat it, added some more JB weld inbetween the sheetmetal sections and let it dry. I have no idea if it will hold or not, I am just waiting for me to get off of my ass and get my HP44 built for the front and the Rodeo rear. Elockers front and rear, atlas transfercase, tummy tuck and new control arms with DDB's
 
Somehow I missed when you did the Synergy in the upper arms. I though you went with the JJ bracket up there.

Maybe its worth getting the full JK kit with the reinforcement bracket. I'd have to cut the bottom off and install only the top half like Currie does with the JJ kit. But I wouldn't crush the mounts if I did that.

I wonder if this tool from ironrockoffroad would help. Looks like it would still crush that thin metal mount.
https://www.ironrockoffroad.com/product/upper-control-arm-flex-end-installation-tool-hk-106.html
 
Just use a ball joint press and a block of wood/metal to keep from crushing it out if you are budget minded person. If not then there are a lot of options to install johnny joints or even 3 link.
 
I guess I will try the ball joint press and a block of wood then... Thanks.

I'm encouraged to get those Synergy joints now. Maybe later this week I'll get the Rancho arms and the Synergy bushings for the top front. I would only have about $800 into the whole thing. That would be almost $500 cheaper than the Savvy or Currie arms. Hard to argue with that.
 
So thats really close in price to what the Rancho arms are after rebate. I would guess your DDB bushings are likely higher quality than the Rancho D2 I will get. But I think the Rancho might be easier to replace if they ever wear out. I still keep trying to find a way to justify getting Savvy or Currie arms. But for my needs I don't see where its worth the extra money. I just need to bite the bullet and get my arms ordered before I miss the rebate. Otherwise, I wonder if those Core guys would be able to order the Synergy joints and press them in and do everything for me at the price your at.
 
I went down to their shop with the bushings, they pressed them in while I waited. I took some photos of their shop. It was $550 for the arms from Core in the color and length of my choice, single adjustable. I provided the synergy joints so my math may have been off a little. I hope to pull the fronts this fall and do something else like a 3 link. I just wonder how well the ddb track bar bushings could stop death wobble. Do you want the Girro Joints if you go the Core route? Tim

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IMG_0290.jpg
 
The arms look nice. Thats a bigger operation that I expected too.

I'm really thinking about getting the Rancho arms. But if I change my mind I'll let you know about the Giiro joints.

As far as the DDB in the trackbar control arm, I think it would go a long way to helping death wobble. I keep looking at the Synergy trackbar control arm, but I fear purchasing it because you need to drill out the axle hole to 9/16, which is bigger than anyone else. So kind of stuck with the Synergy arm then. And if parts become obsolete I'm really stuck. I've also looked at the new Rancho tracbars control arm with their D2 bushing. The only problem is, the Rancho is DOM where the Synergy is a solid arm.

I did just watch a video today on some JL Wrangler forum where Eddie, the Wayalife guy, tried out a couple of different tracbars control arms to fix a shimmy problem some of the JLs have with 37s. He said the JL Rancho track bar fixed the issue. But I saw lots of holes in his video. First he said the Rancho arm was solid. I know the JK arm and the TJ are are DOM. I doubt the JL are is solid. But what really caught my eye was that he was driving about 40 mph with the stock tracbar and he had a shimmy. But when he ran the Rancho bar he was only going about 25 mph. That could make a big difference. I was surprised that no one caught that in the video. Instead everyone was running out and buying Rancho trackbars. It was amazing to see how forum group think works and how one persons 'evidence' can sway so many people.

Having said that, I do still think the stiffer durometer of a DDB would be beneficial in a tracbar. I'd like to press a synergy or Giiro into my current Moog tracbar and see how it feels. I only have 4000 miles on the bar with stock Clevite bushings and I think it has too much movement.

EDIT: I meant tracbar and not control arm in all the comments above.
 
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Fargo said:
...I keep looking at the Synergy control arm, but I fear purchasing it because you need to drill out the axle hole to 9/16, which is bigger than anyone else...
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No drilling needed with a Synergy control arm. An exception would be pairing the Synergy UCA yoke with a larger bolt like a 7/16" or .5" JJ. In which case Synergy's yoke hole is enlarged, or purchase the forged yoke version separately. The Synergy front trackbar has a 9/16" bolt. No need to fear going large.

Before investing in a new trackbar or bushing, perform a dry-steering test. I suggest taking a video (with audio) and focus on each end. That way you could enlarge and view repeatedly. Be sure to apply correct torque to each bolt or nut before testing.
 
k-huevo said:
No drilling needed with a Synergy control arm. ...
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Sorry, I was talking about drilling the axle hole for the trac bar, not the control arm. I have a habit of mixing up the terminology. (I think the Synergy adjustable control arms are discontinued and all sold out. So they are not even an option any more.)

My concern with the tracbar was drilling out the bolt hole in the axle to 9/16. Thats a big hole. I think JKS uses 7/16 and Currie uses 1/2". So I can never go to a Currie bar if the Synergy doesn't work for some reason. (Especially since I have the Currie steering.) That is my concern.

Granted, I have a similar concern about the Currie since they drill out the frame side of things. Which I think is even more concerning. I like being able to return to stock if something doesn't work for me.

EDIT: What size bolt is in that Dodge Ram bushing you linked to?
 
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Fargo said:
...What size bolt is in that Dodge Ram bushing you linked to?
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It is 14mm, and I installed it with the Moog bushing in a Currie trackbar.
Bushing Press_cr 2.jpg

FYI, Metal Cloak's front trackbar also has a 14mm bolt. I'm using their bolt and flag nut. I also have a 14mm JK trackbar bolt & flag nut, the JK uses a similar bushing.
 
I bought the stock size which are the 12mm but since my front end has a new rough country single adjustable with a clevite bushing I am leaving it alone unless I am not able to cure my death wobble problem with better tires. The hardest part of swapping bushings is pushing out the old one.

I dont see why someone with a dana 30 would need a 14-16mm bushing...you will probably break off the brackets before the stock bushing would have an issue.


PPM-4323-02JEEP TRACK BAR BUSHING8155-01, 81561.600"12MM4402-011.375"1.875"0.188"1.499"
 
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k-huevo said:
No drilling needed with a Synergy control arm. An exception would be pairing the Synergy UCA yoke with a larger bolt like a 7/16" or .5" JJ. In which case Synergy's yoke hole is enlarged, or purchase the forged yoke version separately. The Synergy front trackbar has a 9/16" bolt. No need to fear going large.

Before investing in a new trackbar or bushing, perform a dry-steering test. I suggest taking a video (with audio) and focus on each end. That way you could enlarge and view repeatedly. Be sure to apply correct torque to each bolt or nut before testing.
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The stock bolts are 10mm, the JK replacement bushing is 12mm, which requires drilling the control arms or buying them at 12mm for the front axle upper bushing. So far with my synergy bushing, I have no squeaks. I did a trip to the local salvage yard and started pulling bolts from Dodge trucks and some GC's. I should probably go back and get a few more in case I want to change anything. Living in an area that is not rust prone is nice for getting bolts from the junk yard. Having a battery impact makes it even better.
 
came across this thread doing research on what joints to try to cut down on how many JJ's I have to keep greased to be creaky.

Is there any new info in the last 4 years that shows any of these joints to be better than the others? I've been looking at Synergy (which is hard to make sense of because they've scrubbed their website of all things TJ), the Clayton Giiro, the Rancho D2, and of course the Metalcloak, even as stupid as their marketing is. I was excited about Rock Krawler adventure series joints because they appear to be more flexible than the others but they're taking their time making them available as builder parts to retrofit onto my arms and I don't know if they even have any intent to sell arms with the Adventure joints for the TJ.

@Blackjack @astjp2 @Fargo
 
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AndyG said:
I too have had both.

Once they are set up, there is no difference.
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Easy enough if you set it and forget it.

I never seem to run out of reasons to have to readjust, because I build in steps. Lift, then SYE, then change my lift height, regear and try half a dozen different pinion angles trying to get rid of the oscillating vibe, then do a tuck...

There's no doubt I've saved many hours not having to disconnect and they've easily paid for themselves.
 
freedom_in_4low said:
Easy enough if you set it and forget it.

I never seem to run out of reasons to have to readjust, because I build in steps. Lift, then SYE, then change my lift height, regear and try half a dozen different pinion angles trying to get rid of the oscillating vibe, then do a tuck...

There's no doubt I've saved many hours not having to disconnect and they've easily paid for themselves.
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Absolutely if you see yourself making some changes the double adjustable really facilitate that- I’ve seen both sides of it-

....Double adjustable get loose and rotate

...Single adjustable drive you crazy when you’re trying to fine-tune

....I got my hands on one that had bad or no axle alignment done after a lift....With double adjustable I was able to correct everything in under an hour.
 
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