Novak Conversions Jeep Wrangler TJ engine mounts

All things welding

It would be better to have it on a dedicated breaker. The amp rating depends on the machine manufacturers recommendations.

For sure it will be a dedicated circuit. It is a detached shop with either 8/3 or 6/3 cable (have to check) ran underground through conduit to a sub panel inside the shop. I guess the only question I really have is about required ampacity. Sounds like I need to figure out what welding machine I want beforehand.
 
  • Like
Reactions: AirborneTexasRanger
For sure it will be a dedicated circuit. It is a detached shop with either 8/3 or 6/3 cable (have to check) ran underground through conduit to a sub panel inside the shop. I guess the only question I really have is about required ampacity. Sounds like I need to figure out what welding machine I want beforehand.

Hey Tober - There is also a maximum amp draw that a given cable will support over a given distance. Longer distances require beefier cable. How far is the shop from the main panel?
 
  • Like
Reactions: tworley and BlueC
For sure it will be a dedicated circuit. It is a detached shop with either 8/3 or 6/3 cable (have to check) ran underground through conduit to a sub panel inside the shop. I guess the only question I really have is about required ampacity. Sounds like I need to figure out what welding machine I want beforehand.

Another here with a subpanel which made wiring easier. My Lincoln 211i stated for 230V, 22.5A was needed and to use 12 ga. wire with a 40 amp breaker.

I up'd the size a bit and went with 8/2, with a 40 amp breaker.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tob
Hey Tober - There is also a maximum amp draw that a given cable will support over a given distance. Longer distances require beefier cable. How far is the shop from the main panel?

Good point - the cable run is about 70 ft from panel to sub panel. I suspect it is 8awg rather than 6awg because it is on a 40A breaker near the meter, but I would have to check. So I may already need to upsize it to power everything I want to in the shop.
 
  • Like
Reactions: NashvilleTJ
can i just get a 110 female to L14-30R male adapter to run the new welder, or is there much more involved ???

the 3 wire vs 4 wire thing is where i'm at a loss. definitely not an electrician ...
In household electrical panels, the feed comes in from the electric company as two 120V hot lines that are 180° out of phase with each other. The term "phase" applies because it's AC - alternating current (and alternating voltage) - and the voltage follows a sine wave, going from 0V to 120V to 0V to -120V to 0V, 60 times per second (60 Hz). What "180° out of phase" means is that one of the lines is at 120V at the same time the other is at -120V. The voltage is relative to the neutral line (which is 0V all the time). So, in your electrical panel, you have two sources for 120V - each line can provide 120V between it and the neutral line. However, for 240V, instead of connecting your load between the neutral and one of the 120V lines, you connect the load between the two 120V lines. Because they are 180° out of phase, doing so gives you 240V of alternating voltage because one line is at 120V while the other is at -120V, and that difference is 240V.

So, with that background information, this next part hopefully makes more sense. The difference between a 3-wire, 240VAC plug and a 4-wire, 240VAC plug is the neutral line - it's not included in the 3-wire. The reason a neutral is included in some 240V plugs is that the device that uses it requires 120V in addition to 240V for some equipment inside the device. Without the neutral, all you get is 240V. Since your welder has a 3-wire plug, it doesn't need 120V. This means that it doesn't need a neutral, and using an adapter will work just fine. All the adapter does is connect ground to ground, line 1 to line 1, and line 2 to line 2, and the neutral doesn't pass through the adapter.

the welder has an adapter for 110 standard female to TT6-50P male plug
generator has an L14-30R female outlet
Here is where you may have a problem. The number after the hyphen in a NEMA plug or receptacle # is the current rating. Your welder's plug has a plug rated for 50A, but your generator has a receptacle rated for 30A (because it's a 3600W generator, which is a 30A generator). Your generator will may not be able to provide enough current to weld everything your welder is capable of welding.

Edited: will changed to may, since it depends on the actual load your welder draws, not the plug capacity.
 
been on a 120v 90 amp flux core craftsman for 20 years. just got a 120-220 multi process.
don't have 220 in my garage but do have a companion 3600 running watt generator.

the welder has an adapter for 110 standard female to TT6-50P male plug
generator has an L14-30R female outlet

can i just get a 110 female to L14-30R male adapter to run the new welder, or is there much more involved ???

the 3 wire vs 4 wire thing is where i'm at a loss. definitely not an electrician ...

You need an adapter to go from the twistlock to the 6-50 but it only needs the 2 hots and a ground, it doesn't need the neutral. May have to build one.

BTW there is no such thing as a "TT 6-50" per NEMA, it's either a 6-50P meaning a 3 wire 50 amp plug or a 6-50R meaning a 3 wire 50 amp receptacle. "TT" stands for "Travel Trailer" and the Chinese must have been confused when they made the plug. There is only 1 "TT" designated configuration "TT-30" and it is 3 wire 30 amps 120 volts and nothing on the planet uses it except an RV. (You have one on your generator).

edit: I see Sab already explained it
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: sab and NashvilleTJ
For sure it will be a dedicated circuit. It is a detached shop with either 8/3 or 6/3 cable (have to check) ran underground through conduit to a sub panel inside the shop. I guess the only question I really have is about required ampacity. Sounds like I need to figure out what welding machine I want beforehand.

8/3 NM or 8/3 UF is good for 40 amps while the 6/3 versions are good for 50. Individual THWN conductors in pipe gets you 50 amps for #8s. Hopefully your cable is not NM in underground conduit which is wrong, NM is not rated for wet locations and all outdoor conduit is a wet location. On the other hand UF is made for burial with or without (properly sized) conduit.
 
  • Like
Reactions: sab and Tob
In household electrical panels, the feed comes in from the electric company as two 120V hot lines that are 180° out of phase with each other. The term "phase" applies because it's AC - alternating current (and alternating voltage) - and the voltage follows a sine wave, going from 0V to 120V to 0V to -120V to 0V, 60 times per second (60 Hz). What "180° out of phase" means is that one of the lines is at 120V at the same time the other is at -120V. The voltage is relative to the neutral line (which is 0V all the time). So, in your electrical panel, you have two sources for 120V - each line can provide 120V between it and the neutral line. However, for 240V, instead of connecting your load between the neutral and one of the 120V lines, you connect the load between the two 120V lines. Because they are 180° out of phase, doing so gives you 240V of alternating voltage because one line is at 120V while the other is at -120V, and that difference is 240V.

So, with that background information, this next part hopefully makes more sense. The difference between a 3-wire, 240VAC plug and a 4-wire, 240VAC plug is the neutral line - it's not included in the 3-wire. The reason a neutral is included in some 240V plugs is that the device that uses it requires 120V in addition to 240V for some equipment inside the device. Without the neutral, all you get is 240V. Since your welder has a 3-wire plug, it doesn't need 120V. This means that it doesn't need a neutral, and using an adapter will work just fine. All the adapter does is connect ground to ground, line 1 to line 1, and line 2 to line 2, and the neutral doesn't pass through the adapter.


Here is where you may have a problem. The number after the hyphen in a NEMA plug or receptacle # is the current rating. Your welder's plug has a plug rated for 50A, but your generator has a receptacle rated for 30A (because it's a 3600W generator, which is a 30A generator). Your generator will may not be able to provide enough current to weld everything your welder is capable of welding.

Edited: will changed to may, since it depends on the actual load your welder draws, not the plug capacity.

You need an adapter to go from the twistlock to the 6-50 but it only needs the 2 hots and a ground, it doesn't need the neutral. May have to build one.

BTW there is no such thing as a "TT 6-50" per NEMA, it's either a 6-50P meaning a 3 wire 50 amp plug or a 6-50R meaning a 3 wire 50 amp receptacle. "TT" stands for "Travel Trailer" and the Chinese must have been confused when they made the plug. There is only 1 "TT" designated configuration "TT-30" and it is 3 wire 30 amps 120 volts and nothing on the planet uses it except an RV. (You have one on your generator).

edit: I see Sab already explained it

alright fantastic.
again, not deeply knowledgeable so the adapter that came with the welder is a 7" whip. the adapter i got is just a plug block.
i assume, but would like conformation that i'm all good here.
thanks

IMG_1155.jpg


IMG_1157.jpg


IMG_1158.jpg
 
Probably best to plug each adapter in and test to see what is present at each end. The store bought adapter likely will only give you 120 volts so you won't be gaining anything. It would not be safe to sell an adapter that puts 240 volts on a 120 volt plug configuration. The whip that came with the machine is likely the same, 120V only
 
I guess it's possible the one that came with the machine would give you 240 if plugged into a 650R wall socket. I take it the machine came with just a 120V cord? My Miller Maxstar which I bought used only had a 120V cord but I made adapters and I cut off the 120V plug and went twist lock so there could be no "accidents" with an adapter. A continuity test on the whip would confirm what blade on the 6-50P goes to what socket on the 120V end, if it does deliver 240 then look for a twist lock to fit the generator with a 6-50R on the other end. Or make one with a twist lock male, some SO cord and a surface mount 650-R https://www.amazon.com/RVGUARD-Surface-Receptacle-Outlet-Yellow/dp/B08CDTZYL7?tag=wranglerorg-20 (I have no idea why they call it "RV Guard", there isn't an RV made that will survive plugging into a 650R.)
 
Trying to weld very thin (1/16") pipe that I am 80% sure is aluminized steel. I used a grinder to take off what I thought was enough aluminum coating. I am having weird welds. Almost like the gas is off which I'm still showing well over 100 bar in my tank. Am I still battling aluminum coating?

Constant trigger and I'm blowing thru the pipe, so these are a series of tack welds.

20241012_184052.jpg
 
Last edited:
Trying to weld very thin (1/16") pipe that I am 80% sure is aluminized steel. I used a grinder to take off what I thought was enough aluminum coating. I am having weird welds. Almost like the gas is off which I'm still showing well over 100 bar in my tank. Am I still battling aluminum coating?

Constant trigger and I'm blowing thru the pipe, so these are a series of tack welds.

View attachment 565162

Couple questions:
What wire are you welding it with?
What's your gas flow CFM?
What are your machine settings?
Did you grind the inside?
Is the tubing closed off on the ends?
Do you have a fan blowing near by?
 
Couple questions:
What wire are you welding it with?
What's your gas flow CFM?
What are your machine settings?
Did you grind the inside?
Is the tubing closed off on the ends?
Do you have a fan blowing near by?

.030 wire
20 cfm
17v, 1180 ipm

Filed the inside to knock down some thin cuttings that were left over from when the pipe was initially cut.

Its an exhaust pipe that I am rebuilding, so open on either end.

No fan, closed off garage.
 
.030 wire
20 cfm
17v, 1180 ipm

Filed the inside to knock down some thin cuttings that were left over from when the pipe was initially cut.

Its an exhaust pipe that I am rebuilding, so open on either end.

No fan, closed off garage.

Since it's exhaust tubing, it's probably the impurities from inside the tube causing the problem. You need to grind to shiney metal on the inside & out.
 
There seems to be a lot of discussion about equipment. What's good vs. what's bad etc. I think a lot of experienced welders or craftsmen in general can agree that going cheap when it comes to tools never ends well. I'm not saying you've gotta spend a ton of cash even though we've all got Jeeps which means we all have heaps of cash laying around :ROFLMAO:. Here's a few options you should consider if you want to get into welding or are unhappy with the gear you already have.

Hoods/Helmets: Mr. Blaine mentioned it earlier & I want to stress the importance of a quality welding hood. I always recommend an auto-darkening hood with an adjustable shade lens. An auto dark allows you to see what you're doing without constantly lifting your hood while an adjustable shade allows for more flexibility if you aren't sure which shade you need. Also I'd like to mention the grind feature that many hoods have. Basically this feature allows you to use your welding hood as a face shield while grinding without the sparks triggering the auto darkening mode. Just remember to switch back to weld mode before welding.

A few good hoods:
Jackson Safety ~ $160 Reputable company, standard clear lenses & large viewing area.
ESAB ~ $150 Reputable company, standard clear lenses but smaller viewing area.
Lincoln Electric ~ $140 Excellent quality, standard clear lenses but smaller viewing area.
Miller ~ $150 Excellent quality, standard clear lenses but smaller viewing area.


Better hoods IMO:
Lincoln Electric ~ $330 Large viewing area, standard clear lenses & integrated LED light.
Miller ~ $320 Large viewing area & great for welding outdoors in sunlight.
ESAB Sentinel ~ $300 Large viewing area, very comfortable but clear lenses cost more.

Other gear I recommend getting:
MIG welding gloves - these get worn out so stick in the $15-25 range
Extra clear lenses inside & out - expect to change outer lenses a lot while your learning
Welding jacket or 100% cotton long sleeve shirt, polyester will melt & stick to your skin
I always wear earplugs because I don't want sparks/spatter getting inside my ear
A welding cap, bandana or something to cover your head

I also want to touch on shielding gas. If you plan on using MIG wire sometimes called hardwire or solid wire you will absolutely need some shielding gas. Typically C25 which means 25% Carbon Dioxide & 75% Argon. This means purchasing a bottle which can get expensive. Bottles are sized by the cubic feet they can hold 40, 60, 80, 125 & 300. Bottles are typically a 1 time purchase & can be swapped out for a full bottle at any welding supply store & you only pay for the gas. Tractor Supply & Northern Tool also sell shielding gas but they are usually more expensive. I think either 80 or 125 would be enough for a garage welder without having to get a refill every time you want to weld. I started off with a 125 & when I switched to a 300 I was able to get credit for the old bottle towards the new one. There's so much more I could discuss with shielding gas but I'll save that for another post.

If I'm forgetting something then please let me know

Is the Miller Classic Series helmet the one you are referring to in this post that says “Miller - $150”? I have had trouble seeing with my current helmet and looking for something good. I found a Miller Classic Series brand new on FB for $50.
 
Is the Miller Classic Series helmet the one you are referring to in this post that says “Miller - $150”? I have had trouble seeing with my current helmet and looking for something good. I found a Miller Classic Series brand new on FB for $50.
Are your clear lenses dirty? That's typically the reason for poor quality vision
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: JMT
Novak Conversions Jeep Wrangler TJ engine mounts