A Story of Indecision and Frivolous Spending
- Thread starter Chris
- Start date
Sri and I have been talking about this in private and I'm honestly torn on what to do. I really would like to run his mid-arm, but at the same time, I'm not going to sit around and wait 6 months for a 2-week project.
The problem is that he's an absolute genius when it comes to building suspension, but he's very, very unreliable when it comes to actually getting things done in a timely manner.
If it was one of those things where he said, "Hey, I can't get you in for 2 months, but once you're in, I'll have it done in 2 weeks.", then I would totally be okay with that.
However, that's just not how he is. There are Jeeps that have been sitting there literally for a year (not kidding about that either) and a lot of people are very upset about this (it's not just me).
So yes, part of me is scared that he would finish the front end this weekend, and then I'm stuck waiting 6 months for the back to be done.
On the other hand, I can take it to the same guys who did my gears and they will have it done in 2-weeks, which they guaranteed. I also trust those guys a lot, because they have done a number of things for me and always, always been awesome with communication and getting things done on time.
:risas3:
That's another thing I told him to hopefully hurry this process up. I said, "Dave, I already sold those control arms and the guy is getting tired of waiting for them to be off the Jeep."
I was hoping that creates a sense of urgency.
Hope it works out in your favor. I'd go literally nuts if I was without my jeep for more than a month. BAT SHIT CRAZY NUTS!!!!
That's where I'm at. I wrote him on Monday and I told him that it's been a month and my Jeep hasn't been touched. It's been sitting out in the rain when it could just be sitting in my garage until you're ready for it. I told him I don't like knowing that I've been waiting for nothing and my Jeep has just been sitting outside the entire time.
Trust me, I am going nuts. I'm especially pissed off that if I pull it, I just have to take it somewhere else and wait all over again!
It should have been done by now. Even Chris Sines was telling me that if he was doing this, it would have taken him 7-10 days max to get it all done. I agree with that too. Nothing here is rocket science. It's literally a mid-arm lift, outboarding the shocks, setting the bump stop, and getting everything dialed in.
Indecision certainly seems fitting now 
. Hopefully tomorrow goes well, but if not, at least you've already got your Savvy lift ready to go!
. Hopefully tomorrow goes well, but if not, at least you've already got your Savvy lift ready to go!
Indecision certainly seems fitting now
I've always been an indecisive person, my wife knows that. But being in this sticky situation is making it worse, because I'm trying to make the right decision, and most of it is out of my control in regards to if Dave can actually finish the project in a decent amount of time!
But yeah, at least if worse comes to worse, the Savvy kit is good to go.
I honestly don't see how the Savvy kit can be that bad compared to his. Everyone I have talked to with the Savvy mid-arm has nothing but praise for it. Jerry, jjvw, John Beard, and a number of others.
Starrs
TJ Guru
What gets me is what if he “starts” on it but doesn’t have much done. Then you can’t even drive it home. I would just tell him to leave it alone and pick it up and go. Just install the kit you just bought.
I found good images of the JW kit on FB. It's a different approach than Savvy. JW keeps all of the axle mounts but eliminates the front tube side tower to create the front 3 link. Whereas Savvy only keeps the lower axle mounts. All of the uppers are moved and raised with a bridge over the diffs. The empty front tube side is reenforced with a brace. The Savvy rear uppers are triangulated and eliminate the need for a track bar.
The frame side mounts are probably more different than they might appear. Savvy looks to have more vertical separation than JW, but JW's upper frame sides are adjustable. Then there is the JW rear track bar.
The JW front lower arms have a slight bend which will create a small clearance gain over Savvy.
The geometries are different. I can't and won't say which is better or worse, except that I am pretty sure I see where both are better than stock after a 4" lift. As has been noted several times, the presence of a rear track bar, along with the front, will have an advantage in minimizing body roll.
These are the the similarities and differences I see.
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Yeah, I saw those photos as well and noticed that the JW lift doesn’t use the trusses or “braces” that the Savvy does. All of the other things you pointed out I noticed as well. The two are very different in more ways than just the rear track bar addition.
I suspect that ultimately either one is better than a standard 4” short arm lift. Maybe some of it is also just user preference as well. For instance, some people like the way one Shock rides better than another. That doesn’t mean one person is wrong and one person is right, it just means everyone is going to have a different opinion.
Like I said, I have yet to find one person who speaks negatively of the Savvy mid-arm.
I doubt you'll find anyone who is unhappy with either one. I think both are at a level where the differences are minor and become a matter of preference reflecting a certain character.
Savvy might be faster freer moving suspension. Meaning there is less inherent bind, especially in the rear. The body roll is entirely controlled by the shocks and sway bars. The JW version will put some of that weight shift control into the links.
Savvy was born out of Johnson Valley and KOH, meaning it is designed around both aggressive rock crawling as well as speed. I wonder what the personality of the JW setup is reflective of.
Savvy might be faster freer moving suspension. Meaning there is less inherent bind, especially in the rear. The body roll is entirely controlled by the shocks and sway bars. The JW version will put some of that weight shift control into the links.
Savvy was born out of Johnson Valley and KOH, meaning it is designed around both aggressive rock crawling as well as speed. I wonder what the personality of the JW setup is reflective of.
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@Chris, I've been sandbagged before...it involved a BMW motorcycle radio but thats another story.
Do you think that JW just "happened" to be starting work on your Jeep this weekend? Or is it possible that since you have a large voice in the TJ community and started rattling about pulling the project he figured he better jump on it?
I'm guessing he'll tear into it and get it half done to appease you and you'll still wait another month or more to get it back.
Kudos to you for giving them the benefit of the doubt. I'd show up there Saturday and pull the jeep out so quick his head would spin. But I'm a dick when it comes to things like this.
Do you think that JW just "happened" to be starting work on your Jeep this weekend? Or is it possible that since you have a large voice in the TJ community and started rattling about pulling the project he figured he better jump on it?
I'm guessing he'll tear into it and get it half done to appease you and you'll still wait another month or more to get it back.
Kudos to you for giving them the benefit of the doubt. I'd show up there Saturday and pull the jeep out so quick his head would spin. But I'm a dick when it comes to things like this.
Starrs
TJ Guru
Amen! It’s the principal of the matter. Your jeep has been sitting literally sitting...getting a nice rain bath everyday haha pull it out lol
I wondered about this as well. While we don't have the kind of rock crawling up here that they do down in JV, my ultimate goal is to do that sort of stuff in the future, and for that reason, I want a suspension that moves very freely and has minimal inherent bind. I've seen the way some of those TJs move with the Savvy mid-arm, and I'm impressed.
That thought had crossed my mind as well. Dave appears to pay close attention to social media and is very active online in that regard. The other day there was a post he made on Facebook where he was boasting about a TJ with his mid-arm on it. Someone had responded to that post and said something along the lines of, "Yeah, you build a great suspension system, but when it takes you a year just to put it together, no one wants to sit around and wait for that bullshit.".
Those weren't his words exactly, but it was something similar to that. Either way, it started a pissing match, but this guy was very upset (as am I) that this guy who builds these great suspension setups is lazy as hell when it comes to actually getting the work done. He's not alone either. My understanding is a lot of people are starting to come forward and complain about this. It's one thing to do great work, but you've also got to know how to run a business.
I had thought that perhaps knowing who I am, he feels a bit of an obligation to get it done sooner, otherwise I might say a lot of negative things about him. Well, that's only half true. I have nothing but respect for the guy and the quality of his work, but I don't have any respect for the poor business ethics and time management.
I'm not a rude or confrontational person. I'm that guy who tries to avoid confrontation as much as possible. However, I am at wits end. This is a 2-week project that hasn't even started. Why did I drop my TJ off if it was just going to sit? That's what blows my mind.
Anyways, come Saturday, we will see. But since I have this Savvy mid-arm in my garage, I'm really thinking I'm just going to take the TJ home with me and have my other shop install it. The owner of this shop has a V8 in his TJ and is a really damn good fabricator, so he knows exactly how to install it.
I had mentioned that to him as well. I said, "Dave, you know how easily things things rust out... why would I just want it sitting outside in the rain for months on end?".
I like the fact that it's rust free... I'd like to keep it that way.
Yeah, yeah, it's just rain, I know. But still, we're not talking about a day or two here... we're talking about a month straight, and probably even longer!
Like you said, it's the principal of the matter.
Yes, that's absolutely shocking too if you know the entire story of what went on.
They finished Sri's re-gear in 2 days, and Sri's Jeep was sitting there for over 6 weeks since that happened without even being touched until now.
But... this is only happening because Sri and I have been raising hell about it.
Starrs
TJ Guru
Yea man he literally burned you on this one. I would call him and demand he not touch it just so you can cut your losses at this point and get a coat of wax on it haha. If it were kept inside it would be different, but it’s not.
He's not planning on touching it until I get there on Saturday because he wanted me to drive the shop vehicle that has his mid-arm installed on it to see how I like it.
However, my gut tells me the right thing to do is take it home on Saturday and have my other guys do the work for me... what I should have done all along.
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