33s With GenRight Highline Fenders on Stock Suspension

[mrblaine]

No sir 19 so you were close

High-school dropout at that,started working at a young age to help family, but since we're way better im now currently buying jeep parts since I want my jeep to be a rock crawler/daily

Edit- To add if yall don't like how I write go ahead and teach me, as well to add I was tired after work on little sleep so I was just rushing to finish my apparent mindless talk!

You have a few misconceptions that you are allowing to dictate the path of your build that would be better left out of the equation for a bullshit LCG build.
1- uptravel matters, find out why. If you can't build uptravel into the suspension design, then everything is compromised and it does nothing well and most everything poorly.
2- arm angle really doesn't affect ride quality at reasonable lift heights.
3- a wider stance isn't the answer to anything except looks to the detriment of performance.
4- an over the axle trackbar sounds cool and all until you figure out that building the rest of the steering to make it all play nice isn't as much fun as it could be.
5- there is no such thing as 1 ton steering. That is a term used by folks who don't understand shit about steering. 1 ton vehicles have steering under them. That neither makes the components used good or desirable to copy.
6- air bumps are for suckers who read the internet written by other folks who want to spread the misery around. They are not fun to install, they are not cheap, and they are beyond annoying in actual use. They are a secondary suspension component used for higher performance race applications, leave them there.
7- the only thing that stops a normal rig at normal lift heights from being a good daily driver is tire size. Keep it no larger than 35's and it will be just fine.

And finally #8- if you to build a belly dragger with big tires and fucked up steering because that look appeals to you, then knock yourself out. Just stop with the bullshit justifications that are based mostly in fallacy to do so. To be very clear, I have no issue with how you want to build your rig. I have big problems with the lies you are telling about why it should be that way and I do realize you likely came by them honestly.

 

[Just Chillin]

No sir 19 so you were close

High-school dropout at that,started working at a young age to help family, but since we're way better im now currently buying jeep parts since I want my jeep to be a rock crawler/daily

Edit- To add if yall don't like how I write go ahead and teach me, as well to add I was tired after work on little sleep so I was just rushing to finish my apparent mindless talk!

Well that's awesome on your part! Most 19 year olds are still trying to figure out how to wipe their ass let alone work to support your family.

 

[Just Chillin]

I like keeping it to a low center of gravity. This is one of my favorite builds. This is from a Petersen's 4Weel and Off-road magazine.

 

[Just Chillin]

Also, check out the build threads on this site. Great stuff. The @NashvilleTJ build thread is a great one for tons and forties!

 

[D's Jeep Wrld]

You have a few misconceptions that you are allowing to dictate the path of your build that would be better left out of the equation for a bullshit LCG build.
1- uptravel matters, find out why. If you can't build uptravel into the suspension design, then everything is compromised and it does nothing well and most everything poorly.
2- arm angle really doesn't affect ride quality at reasonable lift heights.
3- a wider stance isn't the answer to anything except looks to the detriment of performance.
4- an over the axle trackbar sounds cool and all until you figure out that building the rest of the steering to make it all play nice isn't as much fun as it could be.
5- there is no such thing as 1 ton steering. That is a term used by folks who don't understand shit about steering. 1 ton vehicles have steering under them. That neither makes the components used good or desirable to copy.
6- air bumps are for suckers who read the internet written by other folks who want to spread the misery around. They are not fun to install, they are not cheap, and they are beyond annoying in actual use. They are a secondary suspension component used for higher performance race applications, leave them there.
7- the only thing that stops a normal rig at normal lift heights from being a good daily driver is tire size. Keep it no larger than 35's and it will be just fine.

And finally #8- if you to build a belly dragger with big tires and fucked up steering because that look appeals to you, then knock yourself out. Just stop with the bullshit justifications that are based mostly in fallacy to do so. To be very clear, I have no issue with how you want to build your rig. I have big problems with the lies you are telling about why it should be that way and I do realize you likely came by them honestly.

NOTE: On the last sentence I can see that, I have read on lies that I came by from what I've read
Well that's good to know!
As well I'd like for you to tell me how the ca angles don't affect ride quality?
As to why I want to build persay a LCG rig to keep CA angles dowb ,but later on I'll most likely do mid or long arms and more lift
The jeeps I've driven that had around 4-6 inches of lift I've seen have bad CA angles ofcourse cause of the lift and drive pretty bad on bumpy roads but it's nice and flat its not bad but in the few rigs I've test driven they've felt bad as mentioned

and on the steering part of it being one ton I understand that one but the kit I got from for ruff stuff calls it "a one ton upgrade" does it look like so not really but I digress
As far as the steering and over axle track bar,I know that one will be pretty hard trying to have everything inline/parallel with eachother but if one is determined to do it they'll do it and I'm willing to do it as a project

I'm here to learn and change not be arguing,especially on the damn internet

 

[ColoJeep]

ill regear to 5.38's wich i already have in my parts stock pile along with a 35 spline ARB rear locker hp30 front

Oh please tell us more.

 

[D's Jeep Wrld]

I like keeping it to a low center of gravity. This is one of my favorite builds. This is from a Petersen's 4Weel and Off-road magazine.

View attachment 465464

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Now that thing looks sick,I'll definitely check that build out and look to get some ideas

 

[D's Jeep Wrld]

Oh please tell us more.

Already laid it out as you can see,and I now that I'm looking at it

 

[Woodrow]

No sir 19 so you were close

High-school dropout at that,started working at a young age to help family, but since we're way better im now currently buying jeep parts since I want my jeep to be a rock crawler/daily

Edit- To add if yall don't like how I write go ahead and teach me, as well to add I was tired after work on little sleep so I was just rushing to finish my apparent mindless talk!

Good for you. I like your apparently small ego, good work ethic and openness to new ideas. There are lots of knowledgeable folks here from whom you can learn a lot. Low CoG builds aren't popular here, for good reasons I think, but there's not just one way to build a Jeep. Stick around and ask good questions.

 

[Woodrow]

Can we play a game where we guess how old you are by what you write? I haven't viewed your profile but I'm going to put it right at 24? Am I close?

Great guess.

No sir 19 so you were close

but did you expect this?

...go ahead and teach me...

 

[D's Jeep Wrld]

Good for you. I like your apparently small ego, good work ethic and openness to new ideas. There are lots of knowledgeable folks here from whom you can learn a lot. Low CoG builds aren't popular here, for good reasons I think, but there's not just one way to build a Jeep. Stick around and ask good questions.

Gotta be humble
As well if one can't open up a slight bit to be teached,then you cant learn
Being hardheaded don't get you nowhere

 

[mrblaine]

Well that's good to know!
As well I'd like for you to tell me how the ca angles don't affect ride quality?

I've designed and built lots of suspension. Being the pedantic ass that I am, I make no assertions that I haven't proven. So, when we installed our prototypes on an existing lifted rig, we only did one end at a time. Then we tested, drove, and compared it to the previous short arm iteration. At the end of it with the longer arms and shallower angles, there was zero discernible difference in ride quality. But there again for anyone who makes the claim that arm angles matter, I always have the same question for them. What about the rear arms that point the other way?

As to why I want to build persay a LCG rig to keep CA angles dowb

Fool's errand.

The jeeps I've driven that had around 4-6 inches of lift I've seen have bad CA angles ofcourse cause of the lift and drive pretty bad on bumpy roads but it's nice and flat its not bad but in the few rigs I've test driven they've felt bad as mentioned

You could bring me any of those rigs with 4" of lift on 35's, drop off a check, and I would hand you back a very civilized rig that would do quite well on bumpy ass roads at speed and never change the arm angle. Don't let poorly built rigs cloud your knowledge.

and on the steering part of it being one ton I understand that one but the kit I got from for ruff stuff calls it "a one ton upgrade" does it look like so not really but I digress

They only do that because they know folks are ignorant. I'll send you the part numbers for the steering on my 1 ton Dodge. After you build it and get it installed you'll be wondering who in the fuck thought that pile of mechanical poo was a good idea.

As far as the steering and over axle track bar,I know that one will be pretty hard trying to have everything inline/parallel with eachother but if one is determined to do it they'll do it and I'm willing to do it as a project

Steering rules are easy, following them to make it all play nice, not so much.

I'm here to learn and change not be arguing,especially on the damn internet

Good luck with that. You're already arguing about arm angles and you just got here.

 

[mrblaine]

Low CoG builds aren't popular here, for good reasons I think

When will you know if they are good or not?

Here is the major fucking flaw in the LCG philosophy. Takes some visualization skills but try and understand it. I'm going to use random numbers pulled out of my ass for illustration purposes only.

Two rigs, one with our typical 7" of uptravel on 40's and one with the common 3" of uptravel for LCG on 40's and I'm being generous with the 3" number because I see less quite often.

They both encounter a 24" boulder on a trail that a tire has to go over. The first one has the chassis dislocated upwards after 7" of up on that side so it moves up 17".

The second one moves up 3" and dislocates the chassis 21" upward. In order for there to be any realized benefit in chassis movement, the LCG rig would have to be 4" lower at the frame and they aren't.

What you get instead is crappy ride quality on the way to the trail trying to get 3" of uptravel to do anything useful.

 

[mrblaine]

Low CoG builds aren't popular here, for good reasons I think, but there's not just one way to build a Jeep.

Do you think I could apply what I know about how to build rigs and come up with something that fits the LCG philosophy?

 

[D's Jeep Wrld]

I've designed and built lots of suspension. Being the pedantic ass that I am, I make no assertions that I haven't proven. So, when we installed our prototypes on an existing lifted rig, we only did one end at a time. Then we tested, drove, and compared it to the previous short arm iteration. At the end of it with the longer arms and shallower angles, there was zero discernible difference in ride quality. But there again for anyone who makes the claim that arm angles matter, I always have the same question for them. What about the rear arms that point the other way?

Fool's errand.

You could bring me any of those rigs with 4" of lift on 35's, drop off a check, and I would hand you back a very civilized rig that would do quite well on bumpy ass roads at speed and never change the arm angle. Don't let poorly built rigs cloud your knowledge.

They only do that because they know folks are ignorant. I'll send you the part numbers for the steering on my 1 ton Dodge. After you build it and get it installed you'll be wondering who in the fuck thought that pile of mechanical poo was a good idea.

Steering rules are easy, following them to make it all play nice, not so much.

Good luck with that. You're already arguing about arm angles and you just got here.

Since I can see from what you've said that you know alot on suspension and I think cages from the threads I've seen

How would you make a tj/lj civilized on a 4 inch lift on 35s with off the shelf parts and what parts parts need to be made?

As far as the steering goes I only got it since it's more beefy when it comes to the the Dom tube it's made from since the stock stuff isn't as strong if from what I've personally seen on trails and read up on

Good luck with that. You're already arguing about arm angles and you just got here.

Haven't argued,haven't been calling no one out for an argument, I'm trying to understand to learn and never did I explicitly deny anything anything to you about them control arm angles

And if you think I was arguing I appologize!

 

[Woodrow]

Do you think I could apply what I know about how to build rigs and come up with something that fits the LCG philosophy?

I don't think so. Even if you could regain the uptravel by cutting the body, notching the frame, putting the engine somewhere else and using shock mounting hoops that stick out of the hood and into the back cargo area, you probably would still be dealing with belly clearance issues in addition to the ride quality degradation.

Edit: ride quality should be better if you got the uptravel back.

 

[PNW_LJ]

Hey man, always good to see a fellow young guy into TJs. There’s a couple good build threads on here that show the progression from stock into a very solid 35s build.

Check out the builds threads of @starkey480 and @tworley. Both have capable builds and they do some pretty insane stuff with their “measly” 35s.

Stick around and you will learn a ton. This forum tends to stay truthful and on point, unlike most others, thought it may sometimes come across as “groupthink”. But it sounds like you’re keeping an open mind already so carry on.

 

[PNW_LJ]

Since I can see from what you've said that you know alot on suspension and I think cages from the threads I've seen

He’s designed a shit ton more than that. You’d be surprised.

How would you make a tj/lj civilized on a 4 inch lift on 35s with off the shelf parts and what parts parts need to be made?

IMO, stick with a good quality short arm, stock-style steering (ZJ or currectlync), some good shocks (outboard the rears) and good sway bars. That gets a more well-behaved and stable rig than most could’ve imagined possible with 4” of lift.

As far as the steering goes I only got it since it's more beefy when it comes to the the Dom tube it's made from since the stock stuff isn't as strong if from what I've personally seen on trails and read up on

I don’t know shit about steering design, but I’ve messed with it a bit on some other crawler builds. It’s not easy to design a custom steering setup that handles well and doesn’t have BS compromises.

The Currectlync is a HD version of the stock style steering, and is the best option if sticking with stock-width axles.

 

[PNW_LJ]

When will you know if they are good or not?

Here is the major fucking flaw in the LCG philosophy. Takes some visualization skills but try and understand it. I'm going to use random numbers pulled out of my ass for illustration purposes only.

Two rigs, one with our typical 7" of uptravel on 40's and one with the common 3" of uptravel for LCG on 40's and I'm being generous with the 3" number because I see less quite often.

They both encounter a 24" boulder on a trail that a tire has to go over. The first one has the chassis dislocated upwards after 7" of up on that side so it moves up 17".

The second one moves up 3" and dislocates the chassis 21" upward. In order for there to be any realized benefit in chassis movement, the LCG rig would have to be 4" lower at the frame and they aren't.

What you get instead is crappy ride quality on the way to the trail trying to get 3" of uptravel to do anything useful.

I have a feeling the whole LCOG fad migrated over from the world of low-slung, slow moving rock buggies.

In that world, staying “low and stable”, seems to work for most places, and you can get away with only having 4” of up on a 14” shock. Applying those principles to Jeeps is very dumb though.

 

[JMT]

FIVE i like the low stance and big tire look especially if its a rig with wide axles.....to me it looks tough

If people dont like the plan too bad lol already seems so
Still plan on doing so

Don't forget the part where "looks can be deceiving."

We'll see how tough you look on the trails next to my high stance, narrow axle, pussy looking Jeep.

The second part of what you said is why I usually don't comment on these threads anymore. You can't teach a know-it-all that they don't know-it-all.