Novak Conversions Jeep Wrangler TJ engine mounts

How Bad Are My Rear Pinion Angles?

Chris Kelley

New Member
Original poster
Joined
Nov 20, 2021
Messages
17
Location
Tennessee
So, I’m trying to kick a vibration problem - not a violent death wobble but one that can be felt in the cab when driving at certain speeds. Symptoms seem to line up with this being a drivetrain issue: Only vibrates when accelerating, most noticeable around 40mph… U joints appear to be okay, so now I’m looking at my rear pinion angles.



If I’m understanding correctly, conventional wisdom for a single cardan (non CV) driveshaft setup like mine is that the transfer case and differential should be setup as parallel to -1 degree downward tilt on the differential, to optimize for successful cancellation of the U joints’ inherent elliptical rotational velocity patterns. Additionally, I’m hearing that you want the angle between driveshaft and transfer case as well as the angle between driveshaft and differential to stay under 10 degrees. If the lift of the vehicle increases either of those angles beyond 10 degrees, it seems that the recommendation is to swap the driveshaft with a CV or double cardan type driveshaft and adjust the diff angle to sit parallel to -1 degrees in line with the driveshaft rather than parallel to the transfer case.



Well, here are the current angles on my TJ with a 3” lift:



Between trans. case and diff: 2.2 degrees



Between trans. case and driveshaft: 9.5 degrees



Between diff and driveshaft: 7.1 degrees





So, my differential angle is a little lower than ideal (2.2 instead of 0 to -1 degrees). My driveshaft angles relative to the diff and transfer case are below the recommended 10 degree limit, but I wonder if those angles are close enough to the limit that I should consider upgrading to a CV type driveshaft.



What do you guys think? Do these numbers seem bad enough to be causing a noticeable vibration problem? I currently have non-adjustable control arms, so I thought I’d scan for feedback before spending the money on them, just to change the diff angle by 1.5 degrees.



Thanks in advance for any insight!

IMG_1402.jpeg


IMG_1401.jpeg


IMG_1400.jpeg


IMG_1398.jpeg
 
Yes, that is likely enough difference to cause vibration. Adjustable control arms will help, but it may still vibrate with the stock setup.

If you go with a double cardan shaft, you will still need adjustable control arms, so that’s a good first step regardless.

With a three inch lift, you could also try dropping the belly pan a bit for a cheap possible solution.
 
Is that 9.5° angle taken off of a radius? I wouldn't trust that reading.

Lay a steel rule vertically over the heads of the diff cover bolts and stick the angle finder to that.
 
I would think those angles are your problem. The stock driveshaft, while it can work with some lift, really becomes a non-ideal design after lifting.

On the flip side, when suspension is stock, I much prefer the stock style driveshaft.

Based on this chart from the FSM, you wouldn't want to be running the driveshaft faster than about 1800 or so rpm. You are definitely driving it faster than that currently.

1747335740680.png
 
Did you ever have some kind of damage to the driveshaft or yoke? I see it's not an original u joint so there is always a chance it was improperly installed or not lubed.

Are there slots on your rear upper control arms for adjustment?

IMG_5856.jpeg
 
Thanks for weighing in, everyone. Super helpful.

@Vtx531 I did have a U joint there blow up on me a year ago, and that’s what caused the damage to the clip. The yoke and Driveshaft seem to be okay, though.

Is that 9.5° angle taken off of a radius? I wouldn't trust that reading.

Lay a steel rule vertically over the heads of the diff cover bolts and stick the angle finder to that.

There’s a flat machined area there that’s supposed to be aligned with the differential yoke angle.

I'd try dropping the skid with some thick washers to see if the vibes stop. If so, I'd do a MML, unless you'd rather do all the other stuff mentioned.
p.s. Your driveshaft appears to be bent in this pic. ;)

View attachment 615999

Ha! The bent driveshaft must be it!
Dropping the skid is starting to sound interesting, after seeing that I’d be looking at spending a thousand bucks if I replace the rear control arms with two way adjustable curries. MML = Motor Mount Lower?
 
Thanks for weighing in, everyone. Super helpful.

@Vtx531 I did have a U joint there blow up on me a year ago, and that’s what caused the damage to the clip. The yoke and Driveshaft seem to be okay, though.



There’s a flat machined area there that’s supposed to be aligned with the differential yoke angle.



Ha! The bent driveshaft must be it!
Dropping the skid is starting to sound interesting, after seeing that I’d be looking at spending a thousand bucks if I replace the rear control arms with two way adjustable curries. MML = Motor Mount Lower?

Motor Mount Lift. Raises the engine at the mounts, decreasing the angle of the rear driveshaft at the t-case.

Good call, Boog. I always forget about that option.
 
So, is the transfer case just sitting on the skid plate? Is it reasonable to start by lowering the skid plate, then lift the motor next, if the vibration persists?
 
So, is the transfer case just sitting on the skid plate? Is it reasonable to start by lowering the skid plate, then lift the motor next, if the vibration persists?

Transmission has a bracket mounted to the underside which has a rubber mount on it. That is bolted to the skid plate. Transfer case slides onto the back of the transmission. Really you are lowering the transmission, which in turn lowers the transfer case output and helps the driveline angle.

Have to be careful about lowering the transfer case output too much, because otherwise the pinion will not match that angle very closely Anh more and that could cause additional vibes.
 
more or less, you want the 7.3 and the 9.5 to be the same number. This cancels out the accel/decel of the shaft when the u-joints go through their rotation, although the more angle, the more likely it will be to have vibrations.
 
I think the angles are probably what they are supposed to be, if he has no MML and no aftermarket control arms. The 2.2° is likely a non issue, that is probably stock.
 
You want a smidge of angle in the joints. I've been chasing my vibrations down and just about have them completely gone. And I'm definitely not half as experienced as most of the smart fellow on her. My new suspension setup reeked havoc on me for several weeks. While my setup is not the same as yours the ideas are pretty close. If your suspension doesn't alow for adjustments either with the control arms or possible concentric washers for adjustments, your belly pan and engine mounts are your only option without a torch and a welder. 1 degree will make a difference good or bad. It will just change the harmonics to a different rpm. Old bushing also could be a factor and the transmission mount rubber as well.
Another note...I was strongly advised that any lift 3" and over you need to have the double cardan joint. Hence the SYE swap in your 231 case that was previously suggested.
 
I adjusted my rear axel 2 weeks ago as far as I could before I'd interfere with my shocks to get close enough to the transfer case angle. I'm pretty much where I can live with the tiniest bit of vibrations. It has however smoothed things out drastically. I also have my belly flush to the frame and have a 241 case with a 4" lift.

20250515_173805.jpg


20250515_173745.jpg
 
I adjusted my rear axel 2 weeks ago as far as I could before I'd interfere with my shocks to get close enough to the transfer case angle. I'm pretty much where I can live with the tiniest bit of vibrations. It has however smoothed things out drastically. I also have my belly flush to the frame and have a 241 case with a 4" lift.

View attachment 616106

View attachment 616107

Now for the axle leak ruining your brakes
 
Novak Conversions Jeep Wrangler TJ engine mounts