A Second Chance at the TJ

Tob · Sep 7, 2021

I've been debating cutting the tub (not quite a comp cut but something similar) or adding corner armor ever since getting the Next Venture bumper. Cutting the tub is tempting because it will add clearance so that I don't have to worry about damaging the bottom of the corners again in a similar situation. However, if I add corner armor, it will protect a much larger area of the tub, which, if I'm honest, judging from the current trend, I will eventually hit or scrape. Not to mention, cutting the rear corners without a stretch will probably look dumb. So the addition of corner armor brings up rock sliders, since I'm pretty sure they have to be installed first to play nice with the corner armor. Considering I've already managed to bend the rocker panel, I'm also considering adding some real rocker protection.

Irun · Sep 7, 2021

Tob said:
I've been debating cutting the tub (not quite a comp cut but something similar) or adding corner armor ever since getting the Next Venture bumper. Cutting the tub is tempting because it will add clearance so that I don't have to worry about damaging the bottom of the corners again in a similar situation. However, if I add corner armor, it will protect a much larger area of the tub, which, if I'm honest, judging from the current trend, I will eventually hit or scrape. Not to mention, cutting the rear corners without a stretch will probably look dumb. So the addition of corner armor brings up rock sliders, since I'm pretty sure they have to be installed first to play nice with the corner armor. Considering I've already managed to bend the rocker panel, I'm also considering adding some real rocker protection.

Regardless of whether you cut the corners, it's time for rocker and corner armor!

RINC · Sep 7, 2021

Hahahah !

Welcome !

starkey480 · Sep 7, 2021

Tob said:
I've been debating cutting the tub (not quite a comp cut but something similar) or adding corner armor ever since getting the Next Venture bumper. Cutting the tub is tempting because it will add clearance so that I don't have to worry about damaging the bottom of the corners again in a similar situation. However, if I add corner armor, it will protect a much larger area of the tub, which, if I'm honest, judging from the current trend, I will eventually hit or scrape. Not to mention, cutting the rear corners without a stretch will probably look dumb. So the addition of corner armor brings up rock sliders, since I'm pretty sure they have to be installed first to play nice with the corner armor. Considering I've already managed to bend the rocker panel, I'm also considering adding some real rocker protection.

I vote rockers and corners, no cut.

NashvilleTJ · Sep 8, 2021

starkey480 said:
I vote rockers and corners, no cut.

My vote is for rockers and corners as well.

….oh yeah - and tons and fodeez.

Tob · Dec 28, 2021

Part of the plan of ditching the tire carrier bumper, rear seat and belts and carrying the spare inside was the relocation of the license plate, which I just got around to. I chose a Kentrol tailgate mount, wired it through the factory contacts, and added a flasher relay to the third brake light. The only thing I don't like is how big and obtrusive the backer plate is on the tailgate - I may slim it down later.

I gathered all the tools to disassemble Johnny Joints, so I started to take some apart today to give them a long-overdue greasing. It's much easier than I expected.

In other news, my water pump decided to kick the bucket. After an expensive Rockauto order arrives, I'll be tackling a cooling system overhaul. I could not bring myself to replace the radiator yet though. I'm really hoping everything goes smoothly.

Tob · Mar 9, 2022

Quick update to keep track of things: After replacing the water pump, thermostat, and fan clutch mid-January, the radiator ruptured after a week of driving. Luckily, I had some JB weld which bought me some time while I waited for delivery.

The new radiator arrived with a broken petcock, not a big deal but Summit sent a whole replacement without taking the old one, so I have a spare brand new Mopar radiator for free, minus a petcock! I ended up replacing the heater and radiator hoses, reservoir, fan shroud, belt, and radiator cap too, to be safe. After putting everything back together, I had issues with starting, which (after much grief and trouble including getting stranded last night) led to replacing the battery and starter today (

). I've been pretty fed up with problem after problem after problem the past few months, but hopefully I'll catch a break now.

I bought some lock cylinders for my half doors and disabled the interior rocker lock, which I've been meaning to do for a while. I highly recommend baseline4x4 on eBay for salvage parts.

Tob said:
ordered a Tuffy cargo drawer that will sit in its place and replace the awkward instatrunk

To update on this: the drawer came in and couldn't be installed, so I had to return it. Once I had it in my hands and realized just how heavy it was (80 lbs!), I didn't want another one anyways. After seeing MountaineerTom's post, I picked up a Rhino USA tool bag and I'm loving it. I don't know what I'm going to do for secure storage but it's not gonna be huge and heavy. The instatrunk is up for grabs locally.

Apparition · Mar 9, 2022

Tob said:
Quick update to keep track of things: After replacing the water pump, thermostat, and fan clutch mid-January, the radiator ruptured after a week of driving. Luckily, I had some JB weld which bought me some time while I waited for delivery.
View attachment 314543
View attachment 314544

The new radiator arrived with a broken petcock, not a big deal but Summit sent a whole replacement without taking the old one, so I have a spare brand new Mopar radiator for free, minus a petcock! I ended up replacing the heater and radiator hoses, reservoir, fan shroud, belt, and radiator cap too, to be safe. After putting everything back together, I had issues with starting, which (after much grief and trouble including getting stranded last night) led to replacing the battery and starter today (). I've been pretty fed up with problem after problem after problem the past few months, but hopefully I'll catch a break now.

I bought some lock cylinders for my half doors and disabled the interior rocker lock, which I've been meaning to do for a while. I highly recommend baseline4x4 on eBay for salvage parts.

To update on this: the drawer came in and couldn't be installed, so I had to return it. Once I had it in my hands and realized just how heavy it was (80 lbs!), I didn't want another one anyways. After seeing MountaineerTom's post, I picked up a Rhino USA tool bag and I'm loving it. I don't know what I'm going to do for secure storage but it's not gonna be huge and heavy. The instatrunk is up for grabs locally.

I can't stress how important JB weld can be on the trail for this. Would have saved me $500 and several hours in 100 degree heat.

Tob · Sep 7, 2022

It's been a little quiet here.

MCE fenders are finally installed. I bit the bullet and replaced the sliced up, dry-rotted, chewed-up Duratracs with new wheels and tires - 15x8 American Racing AR23 and 33x12.5 BFG KM3.

I went to Hot Springs ORV Park over Labor day weekend and had a blast, even though I had to call it quits early to deal with a breakage. Dad brought his Tacoma, so we did some easy trails Saturday. Sunday, he was codriver in the TJ for all the tougher trails I wanted to hit.

Cruising through the list of 5-diamond trails in the park, I was halfway up Ingrid's Revenge, having just made it through a tedious, loose, uphill rock garden and nearing the main climb. And with a solemn "POP", the stub shaft yoke bit the dust. I hopped out to diagnose the noise, and thinking it was suspension-related, didn't see anything at first. I was just about to hop back in when I saw a freshly pulverized U-joint cap on the ground, along with a mass of needle bearings like fallen soldiers on a battlefield. At that point, I knew I was done for the day and in for a trail fix - and one good enough for the 6.5 hour drive home the next day.

After getting the Jeep in a safe position to jack up the axle, I took the stub shaft out so it would stop binding against the inner axle shaft. Then I drove back down the rock garden to the parking area. This was a mistake, because driving down the trail without the stub shaft quickly and thoroughly ruined the unit bearing - lesson learned. To get me home, I removed both inner axle shafts, separated the driver stub shaft, bought a new unit bearing at a local parts store, reinstalled both stub shafts, removed the front driveshaft, and closed off both sides of the axle tube with a wad of shop towels.

It's my daily driver, so, while I don't like it, I'm rolling like this until I get my hands on some new axle shafts.

The KM3's are amazing! Then again, the Duratracs didn't set too high of a bar to beat. But everywhere I expected the tires to slip and search for traction, they hooked up and locked onto the rocks. Plus, the treads held up to the abuse of spinning against the rocks, unlike the Duratracs.

Tob · May 24, 2023

Tying up loose ends!

I replaced the front axle shafts with Revolution shafts after the breakage in Hot Springs. While doing so, I noticed it was time to replace the front brake pads. I had noticed the lacking brake performance with 33s, so I sprung for the BMB big brake kit. 10/10 recommend!

I re-relocated the locker compressors under the ABS tray - out of the way, but hard to get to if I ever need to access them.

With the ABS tray removed, I tucked the Viair 400 compressor on the fender wall. The wire and hose routing worked out nicely, and it is out of the way but accessible.

I didn’t want to use any of the common blinker solutions I see on the forum (drilling holes into the grille or 3/4” LEDs), so I came up with my own. I used some aluminum L 1/2x1/2x1/16 and some M4 hardware to mount some 3-wire, grommet-mount trailer lights (Nilight TL-08) under the lip of the MCE fenders. Still working out an electrical issue for the passenger side running light, but I like them.

I came up with some safer ways to carry my spare and gear in the cargo area. The spare is strapped down to the anchors and seat brackets, and the tool bag is strapped into the wheel. Secure and easily accessible. I’m still looking for a good way to carry spare fluid bottles. Maybe another Bestop saddle bag will be the solution for that.

And for about 4$ at Lowe’s, I fashioned some nylon seat bushings out of spacers and washers that fix the passenger seat wobble!

We are hauling up to Branson for vacation next week, and I'll be at SMORR for Memorial day weekend. Looking forward to getting some more seat time and seeing new trails!

Tob · Jun 17, 2023

SMORR was a blast!

The park staff was kind and helpful, and the park map was very high quality. The terrain was very similar to Hot Springs ORV park, but SMORR is much bigger with nicer facilities. There’s a better variety and spread of trails at SMORR, too.

We found the 3’s to be a little too easy and the 5’s a little too much, and the 4’s were challenging but not too crazy. So we stayed on the 4’s for the most part and ran all that we wanted to in a day and a half of wheeling.

The park cleared out by Sunday and we had the place to ourselves, which was nice and quiet, but also scary in the case that something goes wrong. The only other rig out there was a big V8 LJ, driven by the owner of jsoffroad. We got to stop and chat for a while with him and his wife. Cool guy!

My wife is learning how to drive a manual, so we stopped by the big tires to give her a chance to learn some offroad driving skills. She did great until the diff got stuck on the tire coming down off the obstacle.

So she learned how to pull line instead

The 11-hour road trip was a little rough at times - I wish TJ’s were quieter. I would put sound deadening in if I had any confidence in its effectiveness, but all the feedback I’ve read has been unsatisfactory results.

On the way home, the rear driveshaft developed a bad vibration and squeak. Looks like I may be rebuilding the double cardan joint soon.

97TJNM · Jul 1, 2023

Just read your whole thread. Great read, and cool build!

You make it out to Sicily Island much? I went there with my brother last year in his side by side for the first time. I grew up in Louisiana, and didn't know we had a place like that. It's a pretty decent OHV park. I never saw terrain like that anywhere else in Louisiana.

Living in northern NM now, and love the wheeling opportunities out this way, but for rural Louisiana it was pretty cool little park.

My brother, after running out of talent.

Tob · Jul 1, 2023

97TJNM said:
Just read your whole thread. Great read, and cool build!

You make it out to Sicily Island much? I went there with my brother last year in his side by side for the first time. I grew up in Louisiana, and didn't know we had a place like that. It's a pretty decent OHV park. I never saw terrain like that anywhere else in Louisiana.

Living in northern NM now, and love the wheeling opportunities out this way, but for rural Louisiana it was pretty cool little park.

View attachment 437026

View attachment 437027
My brother, after running out of talent.

Thanks! Only been there once, my first time wheeling. The Jeep has changed a lot since then, so maybe I should visit again soon. I usually pass it up in favor of going to Hot Springs or Hidden Falls. I never expected to see terrain like that (much less an OHV park) in Louisiana either. I’d love to get out to New Mexico to wheel one day though. It was a beautiful place to pass through on the way to Moab.

97TJNM · Jul 1, 2023

Tob said:
Thanks! Only been there once, my first time wheeling. The Jeep has changed a lot since then, so maybe I should visit again soon. I usually pass it up in favor of going to Hot Springs or Hidden Falls. I never expected to see terrain like that (much less an OHV park) in Louisiana either. I’d love to get out to New Mexico to wheel one day though. It was a beautiful place to pass through on the way to Moab.

I hope to do TJ fest in a year or two. If you are ever headed to Moab, give me a heads up, and we can try to meet up. @WHBNM lives close by too. We wheel together a couple times a year, when our schedules line up.

Tob · Sep 15, 2024

Well, needs have changed with regard to the rear bumper. I don’t currently have the skills, time, or equipment necessary to weld a hitch receiver to my Next Venture rear bumper, so I am replacing it with a SWAG offroad rear bumper. It is now up for sale:

https://wranglertjforum.com/threads/next-venture-rear-bumper.81042/

I have not done anything to the Jeep for a while, as my priorities and responsibilities have shifted quite a bit since a few years ago - got married, graduated college, got a full-time job, bought a house, and began remodeling the entire thing while living in it last December.

The remodeling has given me a real need for hauling capabilities, between lumber, drywall, plywood, appliances, a lawn mower, and furniture. At some point (I believe it was when I was hauling a 16 ft 1x6 in my TJ with almost half its length sticking out over the tailgate), I decided a small trailer would do me a lot of good instead of having to borrow a truck and trailer so often. Although there is a small weight and clearance penalty to swap to the SWAG bumper, it will allow me to tow, use a cargo carrier, use a bike rack, and have another recovery point.

The house we bought has a detached shop that needs some TLC, but it will sure beat a crushed rock driveway when it comes to wrenching projects! With that and possibly adding another car to relieve the Jeep of daily driver duty, I’ll be able to tackle bigger projects on the Jeep down the road. It may be a while before I get back into it, but it will be great when that time comes!

NashvilleTJ · Sep 16, 2024

Congratulations, Toby. Sounds like life is going well.

Tob · Nov 26, 2024

NashvilleTJ said:
Congratulations, Toby. Sounds like life is going well.

Thanks! I really do have so many reasons to be grateful.

Well, it’s about time for a vacation, so we decided to take a road trip in the TJ, and that has prompted me to tackle some projects in preparation.

Update on “Operation Tow”

While the SWAG “Big Hit 2.0” bumper does have a receiver tube welded to the face of the bumper, it is not “tow-ready”. Here are the modifications I made to suit my needs:

Drilled two pairs of 7/16” holes for mounting stainless steel u-bolts to serve as safety chain connections
Drilled a 1.25” diameter hole to accommodate a flush-mount 4-flat trailer wiring connector
Drilled and cut the bumper behind the receiver tube to accommodate normal-length shanks.

I cut corresponding holes in the rear crossmember and had to trim the Savvy gas tank skid flange due to interference with the bumper.

As for painting preparation, I rounded all hard edges, ground off the SWAG logo plate, scuffed with a scouring pad and stripping wheel, and washed with detergent. My previous rear bumper paint job faded over time, so I opted for a clear coat enamel on top of the self-etching primer and color coat. Luckily, weather was on my side for painting. The finish turned out well in my humble opinion, but we will see how it lasts.

Despite the increased weight and decreased clearance, I do admire the design of the new bumper. I reckon that the DOM tubing adds a lot of stiffness where it’s needed. I don’t doubt its strength, even for towing, but the new bumper’s first duty will be carrying a bike rack a few thousand miles.

Attacking NVH

My other focus has been making my Jeep smoother and quieter. This is key to getting my wife onboard with any long trips in the TJ. The loudness and jarring suspension are terribly fatiguing on long drives. Of course, I’m willing to endure such torture to get to go wheeling, but my wife is not as big of a fan, sadly. Sidenote: any tips on getting your wife into wheeling are appreciated

.

The Rancho RS5000x shocks have beaten me up and bucked me around for the last few years. No longer! The Ranchos overdamped the suspension, especially in the rear. Removing the heavy LoD tire carrier bumper, back seat, and spare had exacerbated the problem to the point that the rear suspension felt choked out. I've wanted to try Skyjacker’s Black Max shocks ever since reading of their softer damping. I cycled the suspension, took measurements, and ordered some Black Max shocks.

Results: In the front, I have the 9.78” travel B8525 shocks with about 4.5” uptravel and 5.25” downtravel. In the rear, I have the 8.78” travel B8518 shocks with about 4.75“ uptravel and 4“ downtravel (completely empty cargo and low fuel). I’m content with these numbers for now. The rear is still harsh, but I suspect the dried out Johnny joints are restricting suspension movement enough to contribute a significant amount of damping. I really need to pull and grease them!

The other front of this battle is noise. To address this, I am applying 80mil CLD mat to the tub interior, then some 157mil closed cell polyethylene foam on top of that. So far effective but more concrete evidence on that soon…

Tob · Dec 10, 2024

Update on the Black Max shocks after about 2,000 miles of roadtrip and some off-roading:

They are indeed softer than the Rancho shocks. They made the suspension significantly smoother and more comfortable on large and medium events. I still believe the dry Johnny joints are contributing to increased harshness and damping and hopefully I can find the time to service those soon. The rear end when unloaded is still a bit too harsh even with these softer shocks. I guess I just have a particularly light rear end (

).

Update on the tub sound treatment:

I was pretty disappointed with my results. The difference in noise is noticeable but not significant. I did not install 100% coverage but cannot imagine that adding the small amounts in the doors and on the upper firewall will make a significant improvement. The bottom line is that it is just no match for wind noise, which is the main offender at 60-70 mph. Engine drone from the muffler and tire noise are the other two offenders up to and at those speeds.

I also installed the Summit seat foam replacements before the road trip in hopes they would make things more bearable. They are firm but comfortable and do increase seating height. They are not miracle-workers, but Andy is correct about them correcting the overall ergonomics of your back against the upper portion of the seat. Can’t say they are worth $200 though.

Before the trip, I also tore down and greased the winch that had been all but seized since a deep water crossing in Missouri. Big thanks to @Blackjack for guidance here, because, while I tried to not be too risky while 11 hours from home, I ended up needing it in a self-recovery!

Tob said:
Sidenote: any tips on getting your wife into wheeling are appreciated

To answer myself here: spend more time in the passenger seat!

My wife is slowly learning to drive a manual transmission, and off-road is a fun, low-pressure environment for that (as opposed to stalling at a green light 3 times in a row with impatient traffic behind you).

She drove some park roads, a scenic, easy trail along the rim of the canyon, and later a steep black trail that drops into the canyon. She actually really enjoyed it! This trip was a big win on that front.

And in true Hellen Keller fashion, I put a small dent in the driver side tub corner at Merus in addition to the past damage from Hidden Falls on the passenger side. It is truly past time for corner armor and real rock sliders! I have been eyeing Fluxor’s work and will likely go that route soon.

The new rear bumper did just fine carrying the bikes and took some hard hits off-road. I need to enlarge some holes in the crossmember before I can tow, though. I will likely also have to drop the gas tank to be able to fasten the nuts on the backside of the u-bolt safety chain connections. This also means I would have to drop the tank any time I want to remove or install the bumper. I’m kicking myself for that design, but didn’t anticipate it being so hard to get behind the crossmember right there.

Tob · Dec 10, 2024

I hate how subjective everything was when researching sound treatment for TJs, so I decided to collect some data for a somewhat objective comparison of the bare tub, carpet-lined tub, and tub with CLD and PE foam (Siless brand if anyone cares). Courtesy of the Decibel X app, here is a summary of the data:

Travel Speed (mph)	Bare Tub Noise (dBA)	Carpeted Tub Noise (dBA)	Treated and Carpeted Tub Noise (dBA)
40	79.5	74.5	74.6
50	82.4	79.0	76.6
60	83.1	81.1	78.9
70	86.4	83.4	(No data yet)

To add qualifying context to the data above, this is with 33x12.5 KM3s, the 4.0L engine, slightly-louder-than-stock muffler, Full hard doors, Bestop Twill Trektop, traveling alone on a quiet 2-lane highway.

The tangible results here are being able to turn the radio down a few notches lower than before while still hearing it well.

The third major front in this battle is vibrations at idle. The sound treatment actually knocked down the idle vibrations a notch, which I did not expect. I installed the Savvy under armor and M.O.R.E. lifted motor mounts in one sitting, so I don’t know which is contributing more to the problem. I will likely swap the motor mounts back to the stock units with a spacer block at a later time to address this.

FarFire70 · Dec 10, 2024

Tob said:
Update on the Black Max shocks after about 2,000 miles of roadtrip and some off-roading:

They are indeed softer than the Rancho shocks. They made the suspension significantly smoother and more comfortable on large and medium events. I still believe the dry Johnny joints are contributing to increased harshness and damping and hopefully I can find the time to service those soon. The rear end when unloaded is still a bit too harsh even with these softer shocks. I guess I just have a particularly light rear end ().

I put BM on mine after lifting to 4" and replacing old SJ Hydros. I felt the BM were okay - but I wasn't feeling the love so much as others were saying. I think you nailed it with the light rear end comment!

I don't have on my rear bumper and spare tire so the rear is super light and I think that's adding a lot to the harshness in the rear.

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