What's wrong with the cheap China bumpers?

srimes · Nov 16, 2024

jjvw said:
Too bad we have been dismantling our domestic manufacturing over the same 40 years we have shifted to obtaining cheaper overseas goods. Tariffs don't rebuild factories as long as you and I keep paying those new tariffs on the stuff we can't get in the US anymore.

I believe the markets should be kept as free as possible. Let people choose if they want to buy American made products, or something made on the other side of the world by people making $3 a day. The problem is there's a lot of incentive to manipulate markets. If countries are perverting the markets then tariffs can be an appropriate response. We don't need tariffs to protect noncompetitive businesses as political handouts.

jjvw · Nov 16, 2024

Murf926 said:
Tariffs may not rebuild factories, but they will help to level the playing field to the point that current American companies building superior products and paying American workers, have a chance to compete with overseas companies using inferior materials and child labor.

It took many years to destroy American industry. It won't be instantly restored in January, but at least the first steps will be taken.

You and I will pay the tariffs. Nothing about this concept of a plan motivates or guarantees a return to domestic manufacturing or any change in the quality of stuff we buy. All it guarantees is that you and I get to pay more for the stuff we already buy with tariffs imposed upon them. We learned this already 8 years ago.

Murf926 · Nov 16, 2024

jjvw said:
You and I will pay the tariffs. Nothing about this concept of a plan motivates or guarantees a return to domestic manufacturing or any change in the quality of stuff we buy. All it guarantees is that you and I get to pay more for the stuff we already buy with tariffs imposed upon them. We learned this already 8 years ago.

So, who do you think reaps the benefit of these tariffs?

Zorba · Nov 16, 2024

Murf926 said:
So, who do you think reaps the benefit of these tariffs?

Everyone *IF* they replace income tax like some claim they will.

srimes · Nov 16, 2024

jjvw said:
You and I will pay the tariffs. Nothing about this concept of a plan motivates or guarantees a return to domestic manufacturing or any change in the quality of stuff we buy. All it guarantees is that you and I get to pay more for the stuff we already buy with tariffs imposed upon them. We learned this already 8 years ago.

The wood products mill I worked at saw a HUGE increase in volume due to anti-dumping tariffs on Chinese millwork. We had to hire a lot of people and made significant capital investments to handle the volume.

Just one personal observation, I can't say how well they worked overall.

jjvw · Nov 16, 2024

Murf926 said:
So, who do you think reaps the benefit of these tariffs?

You effectively voted for a tax increase for yourself to subsidize whatever the tariff money gets applied to within the federal government. That is primarily what benefits. The other entities that benefit are whoever adds an administrative markup cost every step of the way towards forwarding the costs of the tariffs (and all previous admin markups) to you the consumer. You and I pay the tariffs along with all the admin costs to ensure the businesses in the supply chain do not pay for it.

Whatever hopes you have beyond that is all hand waving.

1o1proof · Nov 16, 2024

Try this….

https://wranglertjforum.com/forums/politics.216/

Murf926 · Nov 16, 2024

Zorba said:
Everyone *IF* they replace income tax like some claim they will.

Bingo...

srimes said:
The wood products mill I worked at saw a HUGE increase in volume due to anti-dumping tariffs on Chinese millwork. We had to hire a lot of people and made significant capital investments to handle the volume.

Just one personal observation, I can't say how well they worked overall.

...and bingo...

jjvw said:
You effectively voted for a tax increase for yourself to subsidize whatever the tariff money gets applied to within the federal government. That is primarily what benefits. The other entities that benefit are whoever adds an administrative markup cost every step of the way towards forwarding the costs of the tariffs (and all previous admin markups) to you the consumer. You and I pay the tariffs along with all the admin costs to ensure the businesses in the supply chain do not pay for it.

...I agree that the federal government is a beneficiary. Running a government and country costs money. When you vow to cut income tax to all Americans, you need to come up with other ways to fund the nation. Now, if you can cut net taxes (cut more in income tax than the average person will pay in increased prices due to tariffs) AND cut unnecessary government fat and bureaucracy, you can not only improve Americans spending power, but also start to put a dent in the national deficit. Life improves for all of us.

Murf926 · Nov 16, 2024

1o1proof said:
Try this….

https://wranglertjforum.com/forums/politics.216/

You're right. This thread is going a bit sideways.

jjvw · Nov 16, 2024

Murf926 said:
Bingo...

...and bingo...

...I agree that the federal government is a beneficiary. Running a government and country costs money. When you vow to cut income tax to all Americans, you need to come up with other ways to fund the nation. Now, if you can cut net taxes (cut more in income tax than the average person will pay in increased prices due to tariffs) AND cut unnecessary government fat and bureaucracy, you can not only improve Americans spending power, but also start to put a dent in the national deficit. Life improves for all of us.

40+ years of supply side economic policy got us here. Quit voting for that.

mrblaine · Nov 16, 2024

jjvw said:
40+ years of supply side economic policy got us here. Quit voting for that.

It is actually 40 years of the American consumer wanting price first, quality second, and COO third. We asked for it, we got it and fuck the unintended consequences.

Murf926 · Nov 16, 2024

mrblaine said:
It is actually 40 years of the American consumer wanting price first, quality second, and COO third. We asked for it, we got it and fuck the unintended consequences.

That's hard to argue with.

cliffish · Nov 16, 2024

mrblaine said:
It is actually 40 years of the American consumer wanting price first, quality second, and COO third. We asked for it, we got it and fuck the unintended consequences.

A statement of current affairs could not have been better said!

jwtj02 · Nov 16, 2024

Installed an amazon special, direct from China, on ours. It was about 200 bucks. It is actually pretty good, except for the latching mechanism. That part of it sucks. I keep a rubber mallet in the Jeep to give it a single whack, which then allows me to fully rotate the locking latch fully. After that, zero rattles and it swings nicely. Very solid. The powder coating isn't great, but it was $200. I got it because the tire was jacking up the tailgate door, this took the tire off the door and solved the issue.

srimes · Nov 16, 2024

mrblaine said:
It is actually 40 years of the American consumer wanting price first, quality second, and COO third. We asked for it, we got it and fuck the unintended consequences.

Yes, and this was highly supported by the petrodollar, strong-dollar policies. The artificially-strong US dollar (with policy support from both the US and China) gets us inexpensive TVs and PHOOOOOOONNNNNNSSS and all kinds of consumer crap. And China takes these dollars and invests in productive assets like farmland, real estate, and businesses. We are literally trading the family farm to play video games. The wealth-generating capabilities of our nation are being hollowed out.

AndyG · Nov 17, 2024

tworley said:
Flux is doing good work on his bumpers. Deep deck, lightweight, reinforced corners, crossmember bracing, integrated fairlead, forum member.

View attachment 572848

That bumper is a fine piece of work. Really nice.

JMT · Nov 17, 2024

I want to pay higher prices for better products. The crap these days keeps becoming crappier all because companies to please consumers opt to outsource for cheaper labor and prices but now we have to buy the same thing four times over the lifetime of one good product (which is cheaper in the long haul). Quality matters.

Mike_H · Nov 18, 2024

At the risk of sounding too political, I kinda wish the .gov would quit interfering on both sides of the equation. One of the reasons American companies need to charge so much for products is that its expensive to employ people in America (because of the meddling .gov). So, in order to "level the playing field" they impose tariffs to make foreign produced good more expensive. We could all save a WHOLE BUNCH OF MONEY if we just got .gov out of the business of business.

srimes · Nov 18, 2024

Mike_H said:
At the risk of sounding too political, I kinda wish the .gov would quit interfering on both sides of the equation. One of the reasons American companies need to charge so much for products is that its expensive to employ people in America (because of the meddling .gov). So, in order to "level the playing field" they impose tariffs to make foreign produced good more expensive. We could all save a WHOLE BUNCH OF MONEY if we just got .gov out of the business of business.

This is the best way for sure. But that only works when other governments do the same. Like war, it only takes 1 to break the peace. And the only way to make some keep the peace is through the threat of costly retaliation.

Spike Strip · Nov 18, 2024

Well, there's a reason why we have 8-hour work days and 40-hour work weeks, if you want them. You can thank government for that. The problem is the amount of regulation has become onerous, not, necessarily, the type of regulation.

What's wrong with the cheap China bumpers?

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