Novak Conversions Jeep Wrangler TJ engine mounts

Fire Extinguisher Size, Mount, Location

Well...if you really want to be serious you need nitrogen? tanks, hoses, nozzles and a drag racing pull knob for fire.

-Mac

Now that would be perfect, not cheap, but almost fools proof!!

I wonder how many folks have actually had a vehicle fire while on a ride?

Mac, I know you have come across several burned out vehicle's, how many do you think were intentionally set, versus accidents??
 
Well...if you really want to be serious you need nitrogen? tanks, hoses, nozzles and a drag racing pull knob for fire.

-Mac

Yup. Look into engine bay fire suppression for motorsports. They run about 500 bucks. I've never been confident that I'll be able to get to an extinguisher in time to do any good.

As an aside...70% of my equipment at work has fire suppression installed. We grind in oil and that mist is extremely flammable. If someone makes a little boo-boo and hits a part too hard with the wheel, the chance of fire is very real. We average about 1 fire a year...the systems we use (fire trace) use pressurized tubing that is very easy to melt...so when the fireball happens (cuz, mist) the tubing melts, the system loses pressure, and it dumps the entire 15 lb contents of the extinguisher in about a half second. Its a VERY exciting event, LOL. I've actually never seen it happen, only heard it...there is quite the "whoosh" noise when it happens. Those extinguishers are a life saver. It usually only takes about 2 hours to get the machine cleaned up and running again, they are so good at knocking the fire down.

Alternatively, we have about 30, 10 lb hand extinguishers around the shop...I've NEVER seen anyone use those.
 
Last edited:
I wonder how many folks have actually had a vehicle fire while on a ride?
I've seen more extinguishers used on wild fires created by a vehicle on rides than an actual rig.

I have mine mounted with a quick release mount on the rear Rock Hard seatbelt bar. I can get it out in less than a minute; open door pull up window and it's there.

As a firefighter (and someone who does fire protection for a living), I would only use the extinguisher to keep the fire from the surroundings. I don't want a vehicle that's burned and even if it's out out, there's a better chance it is a total loss anyway.
 
Mac, I know you have come across several burned out vehicle's, how many do you think were intentionally set, versus accidents??

All intentionally set. It's an evolution of things dumped in the woods. First you have the original depositors (borrowed from Oak Island). Then you have scrappers and opportunists. Then the casual arsonist comes along and says that sure would be fun to burn.

Actually editing a video now talking to a gentleman living in the woods who witnessed the burned BMW fire... recovery on my channel...burned so hit all the aluminum melted. He said they used fertilizer and gasoline.

-Mac
 
Here is where I keep mine for now. I may need to put it somewhere else once the soft top goes back on for the winter.



IMG_1083.jpg
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: mjonesjr84
Ok, well, I’ll see what it looks like realistically. I know Blaine said he would never put one under his seat. They look like a pretty big object. Your 5lb is on the InstaTrunk, so that isn’t as overt. Beside the seat makes more sense to me unless it’s quite compact in front. Anyway I need to be able to get to it quick. I guess your game plan is to use the smaller one and then move to the bigger one depending on the fire.
The reason I don't is I tend to drive with my left heel against the front of the seat base. I'd also strongly urge you try and put out a reasonable facsimile of the early start of a vehicle fire with a 2.5 pounder.

As for the rest, I have yet to find an ideal location for a fire extinguisher in a TJ but I'd sure like to.
 
I wonder how much compressed nitrogen you could get into the roll cage...not that it's even close to being set up for that...

-Mac
 
Another important aspect of having an extinguisher is simply to buy time. Say a vehicle flips or crashes (on or off-road) and a small fire starts. A little 5-lb fire extinguisher might not be able to stop the vehicle from burning, but it might buy enough time for people to get in and extricate people trapped inside of the vehicle.
 
Another important aspect of having an extinguisher is simply to buy time. Say a vehicle flips or crashes (on or off-road) and a small fire starts. A little 5-lb fire extinguisher might not be able to stop the vehicle from burning, but it might buy enough time for people to get in and extricate people trapped inside of the vehicle.
If you know how to properly use an extinguisher. You'd be surprised how many car fires I've rolled up on that someone tried to "use" one and massively failed.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Steel City 06
If you know how to properly use an extinguisher. You'd be surprised how many car fires I've rolled up on that someone tried to "use" one and massively failed.

I’m at the point of deciding it’s not worth it to have one at all. The unlikely odds of a fire starting in my vicinity. The unlikelihood of putting a fire out. The better likelihood of a ‘flying projectile.’ All point in the direction of a do nothing decision.
 
I’m at the point of deciding it’s not worth it to have one at all. The unlikely odds of a fire starting in my vicinity. The unlikelihood of putting a fire out. The better likelihood of a ‘flying projectile.’ All point in the direction of a do nothing decision.
Agreed, but I think just about all organized rides require them now. Most are allowing the Element. If it wasn't for the cost, I'd get one just to meet the requirements for rides since it can be put in the glovebox or mounted to the roll bar and stay out of the way.

Now it sounds like we're talking about OBA systems. Maybe a CO2 powertank and heat-sensitive line?

Nice and clean but not as effective per pound as other options.
These systems exist. We supply & install them for CNC machines and electrical cabinets for fire protection. It would be easily adapted to the inside of a vehicle, but the cylinder would take A TON of space. They have an application that we have done on heavy off road equipment (think mining dump truck or earth mover).

https://www.firetrace.com/firetrace...mEswhm2hDCZB764FZTTQNsxDY_yV9I7UaAqy3EALw_wcB

And CO2 would kill you if you were in it when it discharged, even without a top. It takes a minimum of 34% concentration of CO2 to suppress a fire. That is twice what it takes to kill.
 
Last edited:
I’m at the point of deciding it’s not worth it to have one at all. The unlikely odds of a fire starting in my vicinity. The unlikelihood of putting a fire out. The better likelihood of a ‘flying projectile.’ All point in the direction of a do nothing decision.

I don't know. I've never had to attempt to extinguish a vehicle fire before, thank god, but I did put a small grass fire out once with a 2.5 lb ABC extinguisher. If I didn't have that fire extinguisher, who knows how much would have burned?
 
  • Like
Reactions: srimes and JMT
I have as much or more concern for runaway campfires, cooking accidents and idiot smokers flipping ashes in high fire danger areas than I do a vehicle fire.

I carry two 2.5# extinguishers, one mounted within reach of the driver and the other mounted to the roll bar in the rear. I also keep a long handle folding shovel (not an entrenching tool) and a 40"x40" emergency fire suppression blanket within reach. During fire season I sometimes carry a McLeod tool.


1729352842344.png



1729353089303.png


1729352690221.png


1729352617651.png
 
I’m at the point of deciding it’s not worth it to have one at all. The unlikely odds of a fire starting in my vicinity. The unlikelihood of putting a fire out. The better likelihood of a ‘flying projectile.’ All point in the direction of a do nothing decision.

As long as it's secured properly, the risk of it becoming a projectile is exceptionally small. In a rollover, the G-forces simply aren't anywhere near high enough to dislodge it. Really the only thing that has a chance of dislodging it (other than carelessness in securing it) is a direct head-on allision in excess of 35 mph, or perhaps hitting a parked car at 70+ mph. Even then, the motion profile is only going to be forward of wherever it is. In the case of the driver or passenger seats, it will push your legs forward and up, probably with bruising, but you will have much worse injuries elsewhere.

There are a lot of statistics available on vehicle fires and resulting fatalities, at least on-road:
https://www.usfa.fema.gov/downloads/pdf/statistics/v19i2.pdf
https://www.nfpa.org/education-and-...search/fire-statistical-reports/vehicle-fires
There is a PDF link inside the 2nd article that has some really good detailed information on how fires start based on vehicle type.
I'm not sure if there are any statistics on fatalities or injuries caused by fire extinguishers in particular, but a number of sources claim "13,000" injuries are caused annually by all loose objects:
https://www.gruber-law.com/dangers-of-loose-objects-in-auto-accidents/

Compare the number of loose fire extinguishers to the number of other loose objects in a typical car you might see in a parking lot. I would guess less than 1%, but let's guess 5% to be conservative. This would mean 650 of those 13,000 injuries are caused by loose fire extinguishers, based on these assumptions.

However, now add in the fact that the extinguisher is actually not loose, but instead hard mounted to the point that it can survive all but the absolute worst accident types. While hard to put in numbers, that likely has to bring the number down to the single or low double digits, out of the 345 million people in the US.

Meanwhile, highway fires account for 345 deaths and 1,300 injuries, and even that is just based on a narrow definition. It doesn't seem to account for fatalities caused by fires spreading beyond a vehicle (except to other vehicles).

My point is that you are way more likely to die in a vehicle fire (or more realistically, watch someone else die in a vehicle fire) than you are to be injured by your own extinguisher if it is properly secured.

In addition, it's not just vehicle fires this extinguisher could be used for. How many times have we all seen some idiot flick a smouldering cigarette butt into dry grass, or try and pour gasoline on a lit campfire and instead set the can on fire?
 
I have as much or more concern for runaway campfires, cooking accidents and idiot smokers flipping ashes in high fire danger areas than I do a vehicle fire.

I carry two 2.5# extinguishers, one mounted within reach of the driver and the other mounted to the roll bar in the rear. I also keep a long handle folding shovel (not an entrenching tool) and a 40"x40" emergency fire suppression blanket within reach. During fire season I sometimes carry a McLeod tool.


View attachment 566671


View attachment 566672

View attachment 566669

View attachment 566668

Oregon requires carrying a shovel during fire restrictions, and a gallon of water or 2.5 lb extinguisher. I think they used to only require a shovel. A shovel is better than any fire extinguisher one can practically carry for stopping a wildfire.
 
Agreed, but I think just about all organized rides require them now. Most are allowing the Element. If it wasn't for the cost, I'd get one just to meet the requirements for rides since it can be put in the glovebox or mounted to the roll bar and stay out of the way.


These systems exist. We supply & install them for CNC machines and electrical cabinets for fire protection. It would be easily adapted to the inside of a vehicle, but the cylinder would take A TON of space. They have an application that we have done on heavy off road equipment (think mining dump truck or earth mover).

https://www.firetrace.com/firetrace...mEswhm2hDCZB764FZTTQNsxDY_yV9I7UaAqy3EALw_wcB

And CO2 would kill you if you were in it when it discharged, even without a top. It takes a minimum of 34% concentration of CO2 to suppress a fire. That is twice what it takes to kill.

A fairly-tight electrical cabinet is a lot easier to suppress. I have a louvered hood and doubt 10 lb of CO2 would do anything at road speeds.

Powertank bottles are big but people figure out how to mount them all the time. Maybe upsize a little and have it do double-duty. Just have to make sure to not let it get too low.

I've used CO2 extinguishers indoors and didn't die. I'd much rather take my chances with CO2 than fire and smoke.
 
A fairly-tight electrical cabinet is a lot easier to suppress. I have a louvered hood and doubt 10 lb of CO2 would do anything at road speeds.

Powertank bottles are big but people figure out how to mount them all the time. Maybe upsize a little and have it do double-duty. Just have to make sure to not let it get too low.

I've used CO2 extinguishers indoors and didn't die. I'd much rather take my chances with CO2 than fire and smoke.
You'd be surprised what CO2 will do under a hood while moving.

Using CO2 indoors in VERY small amounts and contracted area is fine. Anything else will kill you. If you can see the vapor cloud, there is more CO2 around than just the cloud.

Just because you've drove without a seatbelt and it didn't kill you doesn't mean it won't.
 
Novak Conversions Jeep Wrangler TJ engine mounts