Learning how to fabricate / weld?

Bowhunter · Jul 22, 2023

Quick background. I come from a carpentery/framing background so building items out of wood like sheds,chicken coops, framing houses come easy to me.

But show me metal and I’m lost. In high school I learned basic wire feed and stick welding skills. I have retained basic use of a wire feed for nonstructural fixes around the house and small projects.

I’ve checked local tech colleges and they won’t let me take single classes, require me to take the full blown program which is 16 classes. It’s geared toward making a profession in the industry. I have a good career so it’s of not much benefit to me to go through all the courses.

I’m not the type that just wings it, especially when it comes to structural components (both wood and metal) I was taught how to build with wood and looking for a similar setup for welding/fabricating without taking a job in the industry (financially it would be a large step back to switch to a job in the industry due to the lack of industry knowledge I have)

Any suggestions of how to gain the knowledge?

mrblaine · Jul 22, 2023

Bowhunter said:
Quick background. I come from a carpentery/framing background so building items out of wood like sheds,chicken coops, framing houses come easy to me.

But show me metal and I’m lost. In high school I learned basic wire feed and stick welding skills. I have retained basic use of a wire feed for nonstructural fixes around the house and small projects.

I’ve checked local tech colleges and they won’t let me take single classes, require me to take the full blown program which is 16 classes. It’s geared toward making a profession in the industry. I have a good career so it’s of not much benefit to me to go through all the courses.

I’m not the type that just wings it, especially when it comes to structural components (both wood and metal) I was taught how to build with wood and looking for a similar setup for welding/fabricating without taking a job in the industry (financially it would be a large step back to switch to a job in the industry due to the lack of industry knowledge I have)

Any suggestions of how to gain the knowledge?

If you approach metal fabrication with the very clear understanding that the welding aspect of it is the exact same as the nails, screws, bolts and various bits of hardware used to connect wood pieces to each other, it is a lot easier. If you know how to build with wood, metal is easier and doesn't move or warp, shrink or swell or change size dimensionally as it dries out.

Welding is just how you connect it all together. Reality is the easiest way is to start practicing and then post up pics for assistance and guidance.

Austin O. · Jul 22, 2023

I took one of the 8 week classes at a local community college for stick welding. All I can say is that once you learn the initial technique, the rest is just a similar pattern and you become better through working it out yourself and tons of repetition. My instructor helped us the first week, then just let us weld the rest of the duration of the classes. Occasionally looking at the welds and making a suggestion on what to change. I learned very quickly this way.

Id recommend watching some YouTube videos on how to weld just to get a general idea, then buy some metal, a cheap welder, and get in lots of repetition. Post some pics on here of your welds, and people who know what they’re doing will help you out.

I bought a $98 stick welder on Amazon and it works good enough for me. I say that because I was using a $3000 miller welder at the college. Night and day difference between that and what I have, but the cheap Chinese one I have works just fine.

Bowhunter · Jul 22, 2023

mrblaine said:
If you approach metal fabrication with the very clear understanding that the welding aspect of it is the exact same as the nails, screws, bolts and various bits of hardware used to connect wood pieces to each other, it is a lot easier. If you know how to build with wood, metal is easier and doesn't move or warp, shrink or swell or change size dimensionally as it dries out.

Welding is just how you connect it all together. Reality is the easiest way is to start practicing and then post up pics for assistance and guidance.

Thank you sir, I appreciate the info and nudge to give it a go.

If you had a basic Lincoln wire feed flux core, what type/thickness of metal would you start practicing with? My end goal is confidently structural parts on project vehicles

mrblaine · Jul 22, 2023

Austin O. said:
I took one of the 8 week classes at a local community college for stick welding. All I can say is that once you learn the initial technique, the rest is just a similar pattern and you become better through working it out yourself and tons of repetition. My instructor helped us the first week, then just let us weld the rest of the duration of the classes. Occasionally looking at the welds and making a suggestion on what to change. I learned very quickly this way.

Id recommend watching some YouTube videos on how to weld just to get a general idea, then buy some metal, a cheap welder, and get in lots of repetition. Post some pics on here of your welds, and people who know what they’re doing will help you out.

I bought a $98 stick welder on Amazon and it works good enough for me. I say that because I was using a $3000 miller welder at the college. Night and day difference between that and what I have, but the cheap Chinese one I have works just fine.

I'd encourage anyone that is thinking of getting their YouTube welding certification to post up the video first to make sure it is one they should be learning from. Most I've seen are utter bullshit.

CreepinDeth · Jul 22, 2023

Community college is where I went
Welding 101& Welding 102

If a tech schools WANTS you to sign up to their program, just evaluate what classes u need that will get you what you want. You can likely bail as soon as u feel competent

mrblaine · Jul 22, 2023

Bowhunter said:
Thank you sir, I appreciate the info and nudge to give it a go.

If you had a basic Lincoln wire feed flux core, what type/thickness of metal would you start practicing with? My end goal is confidently structural parts on project vehicles

I'd throw away the flux core and get something with gas. You are trying to do heavy framing with a 12 ounce finish hammer. Sure, it can be done but when you get your 19 ounce waffle face framing hammer, you're going to have relearn some things that make a difference.

Bowhunter · Jul 22, 2023

mrblaine said:
I'd throw away the flux core and get something with gas. You are trying to do heavy framing with a 12 ounce finish hammer. Sure, it can be done but when you get your 19 ounce waffle face framing hammer, you're going to have relearn some things that make a difference.

Good comparison, was easily able to relate to that lol

Taking a closer look at my welder (Lincoln 140 HD) it looks like the brass threaded end (circled in yellow) may be allow the welder to use gas?

This brochure says gassless thick metal welding but then says thin gauge steel if using with gas. I thought gas is what allowed one to weld thicker material?

https://ch-delivery.lincolnelectric...t/6962ab0875394b6983c4ee36019ec119?v=6827a082

mrblaine · Jul 22, 2023

Bowhunter said:
Good comparison, was easily able to relate to that lol

Taking a closer look at my welder (Lincoln 140 HD) it looks like the brass threaded end (circled in yellow) may be allow the welder to use gas?

This brochure says gassless thick metal welding but then says thin gauge steel if using with gas. I thought gas is what allowed one to weld thicker material?

https://ch-delivery.lincolnelectric...t/6962ab0875394b6983c4ee36019ec119?v=6827a082

Flux core will generally allow a hotter weld. You can probably do 3/16" fairly easily with some practice and very good technique.

Danarch · Jul 22, 2023

With my wire feed I can do up to 1/4” with multiple passes. I am not expert, but I get by. The biggest thing I’ve done is weld some steel angle to a winch plate in order to mount to the frame on my son’s Jeep and it has been holding up well so far.

NskLJ · Jul 22, 2023

Bowhunter said:
Good comparison, was easily able to relate to that lol

Taking a closer look at my welder (Lincoln 140 HD) it looks like the brass threaded end (circled in yellow) may be allow the welder to use gas?

This brochure says gassless thick metal welding but then says thin gauge steel if using with gas. I thought gas is what allowed one to weld thicker material?

https://ch-delivery.lincolnelectric...t/6962ab0875394b6983c4ee36019ec119?v=6827a082

View attachment 443626

I had a 120v Lincoln welder ( same but older model) and had to purchase a kit to hook up the gas. It had hose, regulator, gas solenoid and a new nozzle for the gun. I think I also had to change the polarity which was switching 2 wires in the side panel.
This looks like the kit I bought but it was around $120 from what I recall. For $400 without a bottle I would look into a 230v welder. The price may be way up on those also.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Lincoln...5-MIG-Conversion-Kit-K610-2/202937140#overlay

DEValken · Jul 23, 2023

I went from 30 years of custom cabinetry into structural steel fab, now ornamental metals. As Blaine said, the concepts of how things go together doesn't change, just fastening methods and material characteristics. Wood moves with moisture, metal with heat. A 4" tube might be 4.0625" wide, and you're not going to change it (easily). With wood I'd just run it through a planer.

For this reason we cut cross pieces short (1/16 - 1/8) if the outside dims are critical and it just becomes a root for the weld. And work centerlines more than spaces. Framers already know this...

Tack frames together before you start welding joints up. Things move in wierd ways until you learn more, then it's a little predictable. Flat, level tables and stands are your friend.

If you are making jigs or fixtures for repetitive parts, make sure your stops won't restrict your pulling weldments out when finished. Keep them (stops) on the same side (left/right) where you can and use clamps.

You're more than halfway there just by understanding how things need to be fit together.

My 2c

mrblaine · Jul 23, 2023

DEValken said:
I went from 30 years of custom cabinetry into structural steel fab, now ornamental metals. As Blaine said, the concepts of how things go together doesn't change, just fastening methods and material characteristics. Wood moves with moisture, metal with heat. A 4" tube might be 4.0625" wide, and you're not going to change it (easily). With wood I'd just run it through a planer.

For this reason we cut cross pieces short (1/16 - 1/8) if the outside dims are critical and it just becomes a root for the weld. And work centerlines more than spaces. Framers already know this...

Until he learns through experience, that shorter piece will allow the side frames to move more than a little. It is going to move anyway when the weld shrinks, it will move more if there is a small gap.

DEValken said:
Tack frames together before you start welding joints up. Things move in wierd ways until you learn more, then it's a little predictable. Flat, level tables and stands are your friend.

Yep, as well as some experience with where you put the tacks. Put them in the wrong place, stuff moves wrong, put them in the right place, nothing moves. It is like toenailing the ends of a studs and trying to keep them on the lay-out line. If you start on the line, that isn't where it will wind up when you sink the nails.

DEValken said:
If you are making jigs or fixtures for repetitive parts, make sure your stops won't restrict your pulling weldments out when finished. Keep them (stops) on the same side (left/right) where you can and use clamps.

You're more than halfway there just by understanding how things need to be fit together.

My 2c

Lay out and fit up are 90% of fabrication. Welding is just where to put the nails. No different than framing a wall. Get your plates cut, spread, cut the studs to length, lay out the king studs, trimmers, headers, sills, get them where they go and 90% of it is done, finish it off with the 10% that nailing is, you're good.

Bowhunter · Jul 23, 2023

mrblaine said:
Until he learns through experience, that shorter piece will allow the side frames to move more than a little. It is going to move anyway when the weld shrinks, it will move more if there is a small gap.

Little confused by this… so let’s assume I’m building a square frame. Butt the two pieces up tight and then weld correct? Or leave a small gap between the pieces and the weld will bridge the gap?

WV Native · Jul 23, 2023

mrblaine said:
Lay out and fit up are 90% of fabrication.

Amen

mrblaine · Jul 23, 2023

Bowhunter said:
Little confused by this… so let’s assume I’m building a square frame. Butt the two pieces up tight and then weld correct? Or leave a small gap between the pieces and the weld will bridge the gap?

Not just a square frame. A square frame with a cross in the middle or a couple of spreaders that make it look like a ladder in a box. If you cut the spreaders short and weld them up, the weld will pull the sides in and bow them. And, it doesn't matter how thick the sides are, they will still get bowed inward.

Bowhunter · Jul 27, 2023

mrblaine said:
Not just a square frame. A square frame with a cross in the middle or a couple of spreaders that make it look like a ladder in a box. If you cut the spreaders short and weld them up, the weld will pull the sides in and bow them. And, it doesn't matter how thick the sides are, they will still get bowed inward.

Spent some time today practicing on the flux core and 1/16” square tubing. Took a while to get the machine feed pace/heat on the same page as me. Turns out I like to go really slow so I’ve learned to be one letter down on the heat dial.

This is one of my last/better beads. How do I improve upon this bead? What’s wrong with it?

mrblaine · Jul 27, 2023

Bowhunter said:
Spent some time today practicing on the flux core and 1/16” square tubing. Took a while to get the machine feed pace/heat on the same page as me. Turns out I like to go really slow so I’ve learned to be one letter down on the heat dial.

This is one of my last/better beads. How do I improve upon this bead? What’s wrong with it?

View attachment 444873

Start with some fillets. Stand some short pieces of those tubes up to make some L's and weld the joint. That is better learning than doing a flat weld but you are doing good so far.

Danarch · Jul 27, 2023

Looks good. But yes practice with some fillets and upright.

bucky · Jul 28, 2023

My local CC lets you take individual classes. You have to start with Oxy then stick then mig and finally tig in that order. There are some good youtube videos. Classes will teach you the Why. Practice teaches you the How.
First find a source for some scrap metal plate and start making beads. Once you get the proper bead technique start welding pieces together. After you weld 2 pieces together place them in a vice and hit them with a hammer this will tell you how good of a weld you did. Also cut across the weld to see your penetration. Welding is all about getting the proper penetration. For me the important thing I needed to learn was what the proper arc sounds like. I do not weld that often so I always get out a piece of scrap and lay down some beads to get back some muscle memory. The best thing about going to the CC is I used their expendables.

Learning how to fabricate / weld?

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