A comparison of building for 33s and 35s
- Thread starter Irun
- Start date
I'm getting bored with the manual.
I hear the crowds chanting: "auto swap, auto swap, auto swap, auto swap". I need more wheeling time to shout the praises, but so far it's awesome.
Use the Gould and Eldredge model, Punctuated Equilibrium. Itāll get you there more sudden-like.
I'm getting bored with the manual.
How do you get bored with the manual? There is so much too do!!! Clutch, gas, brake.
I make it work, but there are many times Iām in some crazy ass situation and I can only think how an auto would make it less stressfulā¦
At the same time I like to try and show off my fancy footwork!
There's a big element of control missing with the manual that keeps you on the edge of traction much better than can be done with slipping the clutch. The manual will eventually stall, but the torque converter in an auto gives a nearly infinite depth.
I enjoyed wheeling with my manual, but am finding how much more capable the auto is in technical terrain.
Even though a transmission swap is bolt on, that's a very different thread than this one.
Even though a transmission swap is bolt on, that's a very different thread than this one.
Agreed! I have a mid arm I have to install first!
Even though a transmission swap is bolt on, that's a very different thread than this one.
#scopecreep
UKTJ
TJ Addict
A very interesting table and thread @Irun, thank you for curating it. I am late to this, but do have a couple of questions / thoughts.
In the table header I am unclear by what you mean by ā
I saw the points about armour and I understand the view that with 33s the terrain that can be tackled may make under armour less necessary. However, personally I am not sure that even with 33s some sort of rocker guard would not be a good idea.
Finally, I wonder if having three categories would be a helpful amendment. Rather than just having āYesā and āNoā, I think having āAdvisableā or āRecommendedā would help. For example, most of what I have read on here in the past has suggested that stock axle shafts are likely to be OK for 33s in a Dana 30 front and Dana 44 rear. Stronger is better I know, and the part of a pathway to 35s, but mandatory for 33s? This would also mean some of the footnotes would be incorporated into the chart, which would be helpful as I suspect some will not read footnotes.
Again, thanks for the table.
In the table header I am unclear by what you mean by ā
| āā¦for those that want the best "bolt-on" build for a money, for either a 33" or 35" tire..ā |
I saw the points about armour and I understand the view that with 33s the terrain that can be tackled may make under armour less necessary. However, personally I am not sure that even with 33s some sort of rocker guard would not be a good idea.
Finally, I wonder if having three categories would be a helpful amendment. Rather than just having āYesā and āNoā, I think having āAdvisableā or āRecommendedā would help. For example, most of what I have read on here in the past has suggested that stock axle shafts are likely to be OK for 33s in a Dana 30 front and Dana 44 rear. Stronger is better I know, and the part of a pathway to 35s, but mandatory for 33s? This would also mean some of the footnotes would be incorporated into the chart, which would be helpful as I suspect some will not read footnotes.
Again, thanks for the table.
I updated the table header, best I could for now. If others have suggestions on the table header verbiage, I'm happy to take input.
I like the idea of Yes, No, and Recommended. This was something I thought about initially, but once I started trying to make it work, it seemed messy and subjective, which would leave the uneducated reader wondering if they should or shouldn't. I'll take another look and see if something reasonable can be worked. Admittedly, it will take me a little while, because this has turned out to be more work than expected (Not in a bad way, just needs thought put into it).
As for the axles, my personal take is I'd never run either a 33" or 35" tire on stack dana 30 shafts. I've seen numerous broken shafts or twisted splines there. I'll concede the rear stock shafts will hold up fine for most on a Dana 44. My thinking here is I like to do things once and not go back in, unless absolutely necessary. In the case of a Dana 44, if I'm going to re gear and install a locker, I'll also want to do new bearings and seals on the axles. If I'm going to that much trouble, I'll do that on new 4340 shafts. That way I'm not throwing away a set of bearings and seals, along with the time to do the work, should I need to go back in and upgrade shafts later. For less than $400 I've got new 4340 shafts, seals and bearings, and will not have to worry about it.
All good thoughts, so keep them coming. The intent here is to help others build a highly capable rig, but do so with a plan in mind. Many of us, myself included, have thrown away parts and money, because we were trying to figure it out ourselves. The collective wisdom here should help mitigate that, if folks are willing to read and listen!
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UKTJ
TJ Addict
I think the new wording is perfectly clear, it was āā¦a moneyā¦ā that confused me before.
I get that the ārecommendedā may be more work than you want to put in, and as you say potentially opens up further debate. That said it is all subjective even with a simple āyesā or ānoā categorisation. For example, the list shows Currie steering as mandatory, but then in the footnotes seem to say a ZJ steering upgrade is fine if you do not spend a lot of time in the rocks, so subjectively the list assume everyone will spend a lot of time in the rocks which makes the build list somewhat terrain specific. Oh and of course you canāt get Currie steering for a RHD, so not an option for, an admittedly small, subset of people.
Any further thoughts on my point re rockers?
One other thought. If the list is to be used as a form of route map, is it possible to order it based on which upgrades happen in which order / those which have to be done at the same time? Otherwise it assumes everyone will be able to spend on everything at the same time, which I suspect many canāt.
That one isn't as cut and dried as we would like. As soon as you slot in good for 33's and stock shafts, there are 50 examples to the contrary. If you slot in recommended alloy shafts for 33's, there are 50 examples to the contrary. Even with 35's around here, they usually aren't mandatory until you get out to JV level where they are not even close to optional.
I won't even send you home to come back with alloy shafts in JV on 35's. They tend to work pretty well and I know for sure we've broken as many Alloy USA rear 44 shafts out there as we have stockers.
Which 400 dollar shafts are we talking about?
Maybe.
I think you are losing the forest in all the trees you're looking at. My intent would be to have a map to build a rig that is not YOUR end result of incrementalism due to buying stuff, using it, having it fail, and the rebuying and installing it again. My premise would be along the lines of very few qualifiers for region, terrain, or much else except to point out that if you buy and install the Currie/Rock Jock steering, you won't have to change it out for something else if you find yourself wheeling hard enough to need it. That way the debate is gone and you can pick and choose the parts you desire knowing that you will or may be subject to incrementalism if you pick poorly.
Not small, statistically insignificant.
Pondering this some, rocker protection is equally important for both tire sizes. We have lots of folks around here that only run rocker protection and never need anything else until they get to JV where corner armor becomes almost mandatory to slow down body damage.
That is what the forums are for, get on there, ask questions, figure it out. Too much debate otherwise.
Good thread.
I keep wanting to jump to 35's but why? It looks good, but I'd loose all the pep and power available now I get with the 33's. I'm also a big Toyota guy and there are several 34" in options on a 17" wheel which are popular on the Cruisers, 4Runners, and and Tacoma's. 285/75/17 and 295/70/17 being the most popular. I wish there was a good 34" offering even in a 16" wheel.
That said I set out to make a bombproof "Bush" LJ for farting around town, camping, and having some fun here and there (Placed top 25 in 2021 Red Clay Rally). It's not a rock buggy, I think of the LJ as the American version of the "Shorty" - which is filled else where by Defenders, 70 series, Patrols, FJ's, etc....
So I set out from the start to run a 33" tire.
Savvy 4" / Currie steering, etc.. / BMB Kit / RCV's in the Dana 30 / 5.13's / ARB's / SYE, etc. / Fox shocks / 33x10.5's
I don't think the outlay at this point for 35's is worth it to me, that said if a 34" tire comes to market in a 16" wheel - I'll jump on it.
If I really wanted 35's from the onset I would have gone with a JK or 80 Series. Light and nimble was the goal here.
I keep wanting to jump to 35's but why? It looks good, but I'd loose all the pep and power available now I get with the 33's. I'm also a big Toyota guy and there are several 34" in options on a 17" wheel which are popular on the Cruisers, 4Runners, and and Tacoma's. 285/75/17 and 295/70/17 being the most popular. I wish there was a good 34" offering even in a 16" wheel.
That said I set out to make a bombproof "Bush" LJ for farting around town, camping, and having some fun here and there (Placed top 25 in 2021 Red Clay Rally). It's not a rock buggy, I think of the LJ as the American version of the "Shorty" - which is filled else where by Defenders, 70 series, Patrols, FJ's, etc....
So I set out from the start to run a 33" tire.
Savvy 4" / Currie steering, etc.. / BMB Kit / RCV's in the Dana 30 / 5.13's / ARB's / SYE, etc. / Fox shocks / 33x10.5's
I don't think the outlay at this point for 35's is worth it to me, that said if a 34" tire comes to market in a 16" wheel - I'll jump on it.
If I really wanted 35's from the onset I would have gone with a JK or 80 Series. Light and nimble was the goal here.
If the 33's aren't keeping you from going where you want to go, I'd stay with them. 35s were always a "maybe" for me until I regeared and got oscillating driveline vibrations, and 35s pushed them up above 75 so I could avoid them on the interstate. Downside is a 20% drop in fuel economy and the 35's make things so easy that I have to find more technical terrain to not be bored. I would definitely not rule out the possibility that if one day I get lockout hubs and it completely solves the vibrations I might drop my suspension down an inch and go with some 33x10.5's or some narrow 34s.
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