Can too much toe-in cause bump steer?

williambmac said:

So reading back over this post and a couple of your earlier posts. It appears that you have been chasing a wandering/ potential bump steer issue with your jeep. You stated that you have been driving around with this lift for a year and a half , but in your post from 11/29/21 you asked for opinions on the print out from an alignment that was performed on 11/19/21 after a 6" lift.

https://wranglertjforum.com/threads/looking-for-input-on-my-alignment-specs.57318/
Post # 3 you state that the jeep still handles poorly after the alignment, perhaps it's due to the amount of lift I'm running

Numerous very knowlegible members of this forum gave you some sound advise regarding the amount of lift that you are running.

Now if wish to run 6" of lift, that is completely up to you and I'm not here to try and talk you out of it. It's your preference.

I will tell you from first hand experience that the amount of lift you are running is what is causing your issue.combined with the DPA and track bar bracket.

My 2001 TJ had a 5.5" Rubicon Express long arm lift(which netted close to 6.5"), with a drop pitman arm and a drop track bar bracket and it handled like shit on the road, especially at speeds over 50mph. I was constantly correcting the steering.

I had it up on the alignment rack numerous times, My camber was in spec, I ran the caster at 7 degrees( i had a hp30 in the front) toe was at 1/8., Rear thrust angle was perfect @ 0.01. Everything was perfect, I mean dead nuts on. I know because I did it, not some alignment schmuck.
It handled like shit.

Fast forward a couple years and I picked up my 2005 LJ. I did a Clayton long arm lift with 5.5" springs, a DPA and drop track bar bracket. triangulated rear uppers, It's got Currie steering. After I installed the lift and set everything up perfectly on the alignment rack, I noticed the same issues, except not as bad with the longer wheel base.
After tweaking the alignment numerous times, I finally reached out to @Jerry Bransford and @mrblaine. Both of them recommended removal of the DPA and the Track bar bracket. Jerry also mentioned getting rid of the 5.5" springs. So out came the grinder and the track bar bracket went bye-bye along with the DPA.
I reset the alignment and low and behold..... my lj is somewhat enjoyable to drive again.
I then went one step further and swapped the springs for the 4" flavor. Up it went on the alignment rack again.
My LJ now drives 100% better. I can drive 85mph on the highway without any problems.

Now the alignment measurements you posted yesterday are well within spec. I'm actually suprised that you don't have a ds vibe in the front with the caster over 6 degrees, but good for you. the toe is just about perfect and I wouldn't touch it.

Just keep in mind that with the lift you are running, you may have to deal with the wandering.

Click to expand...

williambmac said:

So reading back over this post and a couple of your earlier posts. It appears that you have been chasing a wandering/ potential bump steer issue with your jeep. You stated that you have been driving around with this lift for a year and a half , but in your post from 11/29/21 you asked for opinions on the print out from an alignment that was performed on 11/19/21 after a 6" lift.

https://wranglertjforum.com/threads/looking-for-input-on-my-alignment-specs.57318/
Post # 3 you state that the jeep still handles poorly after the alignment, perhaps it's due to the amount of lift I'm running

Numerous very knowlegible members of this forum gave you some sound advise regarding the amount of lift that you are running.

Now if you wish to run 6" of lift, that is completely up to you and I'm not here to try and talk you out of it. It's your preference.

I will tell you from first hand experience that the amount of lift you are running is what is causing your issue.combined with the DPA and track bar bracket.

My 2001 TJ had a 5.5" Rubicon Express long arm lift(which netted close to 6.5"), with a drop pitman arm and a drop track bar bracket and it handled like shit on the road, especially at speeds over 50mph. I was constantly correcting the steering.

I had it up on the alignment rack numerous times, My camber was in spec, I ran the caster at 7 degrees( i had a hp30 in the front) toe was at 1/8., Rear thrust angle was perfect @ 0.01. Everything was perfect, I mean dead nuts on. I know because I did it, not some alignment schmuck.
It handled like shit.

Fast forward a couple years and I picked up my 2005 LJ. I did a Clayton long arm lift with 5.5" springs, a DPA and drop track bar bracket. triangulated rear uppers, It's got Currie steering. After I installed the lift and set everything up perfectly on the alignment rack, I noticed the same issues, except not as bad with the longer wheel base.
After tweaking the alignment numerous times, I finally reached out to @Jerry Bransford and @mrblaine. Both of them recommended removal of the DPA and the Track bar bracket. Jerry also mentioned getting rid of the 5.5" springs. So out came the grinder and the track bar bracket went bye-bye along with the DPA.
I reset the alignment and low and behold..... my lj is somewhat enjoyable to drive again.
I then went one step further and swapped the springs for the 4" flavor. Up it went on the alignment rack again.
My LJ now drives 100% better. I can drive 85mph on the highway without any problems.

Now the alignment measurements you posted yesterday are well within spec. I'm actually suprised that you don't have a ds vibe in the front with the caster over 6 degrees, but good for you. the toe is just about perfect and I wouldn't touch it.

Just keep in mind that with the lift you are running, you may have to deal with the wandering.

Click to expand...

Gollywomper said:

6” on short arms? I assumed it was a long arm. Yikes.
I can tell you that playing with springs that ran tall on my rig that there is a HUGE drivability difference between 4”, 5” & 5.5”.
Not a little, A HUGE DIFFERENCE!!!!!
Swap them springs out to a 4”. Cycle your suspension properly while the springs are out and get some proper bump stops installed. When that is done and adjusted correctly you will have a rig that runs down the highway nice and smooth.

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Jerry Bransford said:

I just received the below (from someone who wishes to remain anonymous) who had virtually the same identical symptoms with the same height lift and same Pitman arm/track bar mount setup. He looked at your symptoms and they were identical to his....

"I think it's a combination between 6" of lift, a DPA and track bar drop bracket. I had this same issue when I was running 5.5 RE springs, a DPA and the track bar bracket.
Both you and Blaine were nice enough to recommend removing the DPA and track bar bracket, and lowering the lift, which fixed ev

Click to expand...

Blackjack said:

Yep at 6 inches of lift and especially with short arms you are going to drive like a shopping cart. Everything is just being pushed too far from its ideal operating limits.

Click to expand...