Theories why the Rubicon went with D44s vs upgraded Dana 30/35?

[Chris]

When I lived in Detroit, my roommate worked for Bosch and Jack Roush Industries as a mechanical engineer. These are level 1 and 2 suppliers to the big 3 in Detroit. Trim options are where the big 3 make their largest profit margin. To give you an example, a Lincoln Navigator was about $10,000 more on the sticker price than a Ford Expedition. Same platform and essentially the same vehicle. The difference was the badging and the trim levels. The cost to ford was $35 more to assemble a navigator than an expedition. Yes, $35 dollars. And Lincoln would charge $10,000 more. This is why luxury SUV have such large discounts at the end of the year. They can drop the the price with huge rebates and still make money. This was 1998 so my guess in today's dollars it would be In the hundreds of dollars but you get the idea.

Yep, I believe it. I've talked to many a friendly car salesman, and they've all told me that the auto manufacturers are making the big money off trim package upgrades. For instance, in many new Ford's, the "entertainment package" with the GPS navigation and other tech stuff is a whopping $3500+!

Jeep is notorious for the same things. While the JK has remained largely unchanged (except for the new engine in 2012+ models), they keep adding all these silly little trim packages (i.e. Moab, etc.) that they charge more for, but are usually nothing other than decals and color matched seats.

It's a way for them to make money, and I think the Rubicon was the same thing. Not to say the Rubicon isn't worth the extra money (to me it surely is), but you have to imagine that one of the reasons they did it was to make more money.

 

[lovemachine]

Maybe I missed it....but let's say a guy buys a Sport, with the Dana 35. How much is he looking at to buy a Super 35 kit?

I'm just curious on the money saved by doing that VS buying a rubicon.

 

[sgtjdgelinas]

This thread got me looking into the Jeep Rubicon history and I found this article about its inception. It doesn't answer the original question, why the Dana 44 over an upgraded Dana 35, but it does shed shed light on a lot of other questions. Like why they went with a LP front axle instead of a HP, or that it wasn't a marketing gimmick, and how they chose what locker to use.
It's a good read if your interested, not long either.
http://www.fourwheeler.com/project-vehicles/154-0907-the-eep-wrangler-rubicon-story/

 

[Fouledplugs]

Maybe I missed it....but let's say a guy buys a Sport, with the Dana 35. How much is he looking at to buy a Super 35 kit?

I'm just curious on the money saved by doing that VS buying a rubicon.

Well the rubicon comes with lockers front and rear. Dana 44's front and rear, and a NP241 transfer case with 4:1 with a DCV driveshaft with SYE. Adding a super 35 kit to a non-Rubicon doesn't compare to the whole Rubicon package.

A super35 kit doesnt compare to the Rubicon because you fail to mention the Rubicon's disc brakes rear, c-clip elimination in the rear, or the 4:1 NP 241 on the Rubicon. Not all are single options (except the Dana 44 rear) when the TJ sold, so buying the parts separately wouldnt be cheap. Finally, Ron, owner of Superior Axle and Gear stated, he never designed and produced the super35 to be compared to the Dana 44. But like I stated in my orginal post. Just theorizing why Jeep ditched the Dana 35 in the Rubicon. Was it mathematical? was it Automotive design theory? Were engineers actually involved?

 

[Fouledplugs]

Yep, I believe it. I've talked to many a friendly car salesman, and they've all told me that the auto manufacturers are making the big money off trim package upgrades. For instance, in many new Ford's, the "entertainment package" with the GPS navigation and other tech stuff is a whopping $3500+!

Jeep is notorious for the same things. While the JK has remained largely unchanged (except for the new engine in 2012+ models), they keep adding all these silly little trim packages (i.e. Moab, etc.) that they charge more for, but are usually nothing other than decals and color matched seats.

It's a way for them to make money, and I think the Rubicon was the same thing. Not to say the Rubicon isn't worth the extra money (to me it surely is), but you have to imagine that one of the reasons they did it was to make more money.

Like JK nav systems being contracted by Alpine.

 

[lovemachine]

Well the rubicon comes with lockers front and rear. Dana 44's front and rear, and a NP241 transfer case with 4:1. Adding a super 35 kit to a non-Rubicon doesn't compare to the whole Rubicon package.

A super35 kit doesnt compare to the Rubicon because you fail to mention the Rubicon's disc brakes rear, c-clip elimination in the rear, or the 4:1 NP 241 on the Rubicon. Not all are singl options (except the Dana 44 rear) when the TJ sold, so buying the parts separately wouldnt be cheap. Finally, Ron, owner of Superior Axle and Gear stated, he never designed and produced the super35 to be compared to the Dana 44. But like I stated in my orginal post. Just theorizing why Jeep ditched the Dana 35 in the Rubicon. Was it mathematical? was it Automotive design theory? Were engineers actually involved?

Eh. I was thinking one could save money buy buying a sport, and upgrading the Dana 35 with the Super 35 kit. He'd have a stronger axle, plus a locker.

 

[Fouledplugs]

This thread got me looking into the Jeep Rubicon history and I found this article about its inception. It doesn't answer the original question, why the Dana 44 over an upgraded Dana 35, but it does shed shed light on a lot of other questions. Like why they went with a LP front axle instead of a HP, or that it wasn't a marketing gimmick, and how they chose what locker to use.
It's a good read if your interested, not long either.
http://www.fourwheeler.com/project-vehicles/154-0907-the-eep-wrangler-rubicon-story/

This is what sparked my thread.

I believe the Dana 44 in the TJ Rubicon to be more than just a marketing ploy. Yes, the Dana 44 front and rear makes for an awesome selling point. But so does the hellcat's 700 HP and its real and useable.

I am standing by it.

I'm standing by it more and more.

 

[Fouledplugs]

Eh. I was thinking one could save money buy buying a sport, and upgrading the Dana 35 with the Super 35 kit. He'd have a stronger axle, plus a locker.

I agree, but you would be missing the better driveshaft, the sye, and the 4:1. Not to mention the front Dana 44, locked.

 

[Fouledplugs]

Eh. I was thinking one could save money buy buying a sport, and upgrading the Dana 35 with the Super 35 kit. He'd have a stronger axle, plus a locker.

And a vast amount of people do this without hesitation and problem.

It really depends on where you wanna take your TJ and how you want to build your Jeep for YOU.

 

[Chris]

Like JK nav systems being contracted by Alpine.

I didn't know that! Well you can bet they are charging a premium for that.

Hell, when you ordered a TJ brand new I think the only options were maybe cruise control, a 4 cylinder or 6 cylinder, and one of those mirrors with the built in compass.

 

[Fouledplugs]

I didn't know that! Well you can bet they are charging a premium for that.

Hell, when you ordered a TJ brand new I think the only options were maybe cruise control, a 4 cylinder or 6 cylinder, and one of those mirrors with the built in compass.

I think it depended on which TJ trim you were looking at. For example the X did not have the option for a rear Dana 44. To get that option you had to start with a sport.

 

[Chris]

I think it depended on which TJ trim you were looking at. For example the X did not have the option for a rear Dana 44. To get that option you had to start with a sport.

Yes, it was definitely trim level dependent.

I just mean to say that there wasn't really many options to start with. Nowadays you can get navigation, premium sound, leather, power seats, heated seats, etc., etc. The TJs were really stripped down in terms of what they offered.

Of course, that's part of their beauty if you ask me!

 

[Shane Mckinley]

I question the strength having the 30 up front with the 44 in the rear. Why didn't they offer the 35 in the front?


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[Fouledplugs]

I didn't know that! Well you can bet they are charging a premium for that.

Hell, when you ordered a TJ brand new I think the only options were maybe cruise control, a 4 cylinder or 6 cylinder, and one of those mirrors with the built in compass.

I miss the Jeep TJ days when you could go to the dealer and get some of those parts. Like cruise control Mopar/Jeep P/N 82209481

 

[Fouledplugs]

Yes, it was definitely trim level dependent.

I just mean to say that there wasn't really many options to start with. Nowadays you can get navigation, premium sound, leather, power seats, heated seats, etc., etc. The TJs were really stripped down in terms of what they offered.

Of course, that's part of their beauty if you ask me!

Only issue IMO, is that to get something like remote start you also have to get the connectivity package or something to that nature, which includes other things you may not want but cannot eliminate. Also, it makes sense, but you have to have auto trans as well just to havw remote start. Again, it makes sense safety wise.

You want 4.10 gear ratios, got to also have the automatic trans.

 

[Chris]

I miss the Jeep TJ days when you could go to the dealer and get some of those parts. Like cruise control Mopar/Jeep P/N 82209481

Ahhh yes, I can relate to that, since mine didn't come with cruise control and I had to source all the parts out at wrecking yards and eBay. I miss those days too!

I wish the TJ went the way of the classic muscle cars. You know, like if you owned a classic Camaro, you can go to http://www.rickscamaros.com and get every single trim piece and part you'd need to build a Camaro from the ground up. Now granted they are Chinese reproductions, but I had a bunch of them on my old '69 SS Camaro, and they are really, really good reproductions!

 

[Chris]

Only issue IMO, is that to get something like remote start you also have to get the connectivity package or something to that nature, which includes other things you may not want but cannot eliminate. Also, it makes sense, but you have to have auto trans as well just to havw remote start. Again, it makes sense safety wise.

You want 4.10 gear ratios, got to also have the automatic trans.

I also heard a guy with a JK talking the other day about how he loves his JK, but it drives him crazy when he takes it off-road to have fun, that all of the damn electronic stability aids start acting up and being wonky... Haha.

 

[Fouledplugs]

I question the strength having the 30 up front with the 44 in the rear. Why didn't they offer the 35 in the front?


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I believe it comes down to engineering and design theory/mathmatics. The Dana 30 was prob the smallest, yet safest front axle to run.

 

[Fouledplugs]

Ahhh yes, I can relate to that, since mine didn't come with cruise control and I had to source all the parts out at wrecking yards and eBay. I miss those days too!

I wish the TJ went the way of the classic muscle cars. You know, like if you owned a classic Camaro, you can go to http://www.rickscamaros.com and get every single trim piece and part you'd need to build a Camaro from the ground up. Now granted they are Chinese reproductions, but I had a bunch of them on my old '69 SS Camaro, and they are really, really good reproductions!

Or find someone who hit the, "lottery" and find a stash of NOS (new old stock) Jeep parts. It happend to some lucky guy with GM parts.

 

[Chris]

Or find someone who hit the, "lottery" and find a stash of NOS (new old stock) Jeep parts. It happend to some lucky guy with GM parts.

Or just do what the guy did with DeLorean. He bought all the rights to DeLorean and the parts molds and everything. He put DeLorean back into production, and now you can go out and buy yourself a brand new DMC-12!

I wonder what Jeep would charge for all the part molds and machinery for the TJ stuff, haha.